Why one of the planets most ancient and historical sites has been mortgaged...

As im sure most here are aware, economic meltdown was averted recently as Eurozone leaders agreed another bailout for bankrupt Greece, of £96 billion. ($156.5 billion)
Although this time it is different because for the first time banks and other private investors will contribute to the package (£32.5 billion-$53 billion)

But what exactly is the Eurozone and why is this causing such a concern around the world, the idea of this thread is to explain it in leymans terms, for those who have an interest in global economic meltdown.. (which should be most people on the planet)

firstly what is the eurozone?

The collective group of countries which use the Euro as their common currency. The Eurozone came into being in 1999, and originally consisted of 11 countries. As of 2011, 17 countries were part of the Eurozone. The Eurozone does not include every country in the European Union. As a currency union, monetary rules are created and maintained by the European Central Bank .

these are the countries currently using the euro.

1. Austria
2. Belgium
3. Cyprus (since 1 January 2008)
4. Estonia (since 1 January 2011)
5. Finland
6. France
7. Germany
8. Greece
9. Ireland
10. Italy
11. Luxembourg
12. Malta (since 1 January 2008)
13. The Netherlands
14. Portugal
15. Slovakia (since 1 January 2009)
16. Slovenia (since 1 January 2007)
17. Spain


not to be confused with the EU, which is actually 27 member states.. which some do not use the single currency.
The 27 countries in the EU are listed below, by the year they joined:

* 1958 - Belgium, France, (West) Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands
* 1973 - Denmark, Ireland, UK
* 1981 - Greece
* 1986 - Portugal, Spain
* 1995 - Austria, Finland, Sweden
* 2004 - Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia
* 2007 - Romania, Bulgaria

Croatia, Macedonia and Turkey are official candidates to join the EU.

here is an EU map with the EU and Eurozone highlighted.. i have to add this is a little dated as Estonia and slovakia are now using the single currency.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9f110cf8d52d.jpg[/atsimg]

Now lets look at each individual Eurozone country, which ones are the real danger and the current risk of collapse. (Although this will obviously change in time, but it is just current danger of collapse)

ill start from left to right so you can pinpoint where the countries are on the map quite easily.

for those who dont know what GDP is..

Gross domestic product (GDP) refers to the market value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given period. GDP per capita is often considered an indicator of a country's standard of living.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0af11a0d3924.gif[/atsimg]
Ireland
once known as the celtic tiger due to its strong economy.. and having already recieved a bailout from europe, the next few months will be crucial for ireland.
Debt £131 billion
unemployment £14.1%
debt as % of gdp 96.2%
risk of collapse 3/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/775b26e820a4.gif[/atsimg]

Portugal
Portugal has a relative small debt but the country's economy is on its kness.
debt £141 billion
unemployment 12.4%
debt as % of GDP 93%
risk of collapse 3/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3ac624f1da27.gif[/atsimg]

spain
unemployment is sky high and the property market has collapsed.
debt £141 billion
unemployment 20.7% !!!
debt as % of GDP 60.1%
risk of collapse 2.5/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67690b09e3d1.gif[/atsimg]

France
High debts but political knigpin when it comes to Europe.
debt £1.4 trillion
unemployment 9.6%
debt as % of GDP 81.7%
risk of collapse 0.5/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/614a91d3f47d.gif[/atsimg]

Italy
Huge debts... if italy need a bailout, we could face economic armageddon.
debt £1.6 trillion
unemployment 8.2%
debt as % of GDP 119% !!!
risk of collapse 4/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b0513052b629.gif[/atsimg]

Malta
Biggest problem has been internal strife over money lent to greece.
debt £3.7 billion
unemployment 6.2%
debt as % of GDP 68%
risk of collapse 1/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d6ca2a8511ad.gif[/atsimg]

Belgium
one of the few north european states viewed as a potential hazard
debt £301 billion
unemployment 9.6%
debt as % of GDP 96.8%
risk of collapse 2/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/269eec6c8d31.gif[/atsimg]

Greece
the real danger to the Eurozone, a bust country staring a costly default in the face.
debt £290 billion
unemployment 15%
debt as % of GDP 142.8% !!!!!!!!!!!
risk of collapse 5/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c8cee7c4229b.gif[/atsimg]

Netherlands (Holland)
many would rather boot greece out of euro than spend more cash
debt 301 billion
unemployment 4.2%
debt as % of GDP 62.7%
risk of collapse 0/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ec8ef8625cc3.gif[/atsimg]
Cyprus
bank governor warned cyprus may need bailout unless spending falls.
debt £9.4 billion
unemployment 6.9%
debt as % of GDP 68%
risk of collapse 2/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c2a7ca96a705.gif[/atsimg]
Finland
gaining increasingly influential voice as financial chaos spreads
debt £77 billion
unemployment 8%
debt as % of GDP 48.4%
risk of collapse 0.5/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/91b271d60244.gif[/atsimg]
luxembourg
they may be small, but they are big winners financially.
debt £6.7 billion
unemployment 4.3%
debt as % of GDP 18.4%
risk of collapse 0/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/40662a8b4f4c.gif[/atsimg]
estonia
like many of the baltic states it hasnt built up big debts
debt £840 million
unemployment 13.8%
debt as % of GDP 6.6%
risk of collapse 0/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/63acbe7702da.gif[/atsimg]
Germany
the powerhouse of europe
debt £1.8 trillion
unemployment 6.2%
debt as % of GDP 83.2%
risk of collapse 0/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0dcbd0e027ca.gif[/atsimg]
Slovakia
close to germany and growth could be 4% this year.
debt £23 billion
unemployment 13.4%
debt as % of GDP 41%
risk of collapse 1/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0c46f575ff4b.gif[/atsimg]
slovenia
has impressed many with its form throughout the recession
debt £12 billion
unemployment 8.2%
debt as % of GDP 38%
risk of collapse 0.5/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/30a921f80ac7.gif[/atsimg]
Austria
a sure fire bet as the rest of europe wobbles
debt £181 billion
unemployment 4.4%
debt as % of GDP 72.3%
risk of collapse 0.5/5

now that is all the Eurozone countries but i will add a couple more as they are also a risk to the world economy..

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f0f46867c622.gif[/atsimg]
United Kingdom
Although a major player in the EU, we still use the pound, so we are not part of the Eurozone. The recent goverment cuts in spending has reassured the jittery world markets.
debt £1.2 trillion
unemployment 7.6%
debt as % of GDP 96.2%
risk of collapse 2/5

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/34863c4ea6a0.gif[/atsimg]
United States
If this one blows.. we'll all have to run for cover.
debt £8.7 trillion
unemployment 9.2%
debt as % of GDP 96%
risk of collapse 4/5

And how badly are the banks exposed?

RBS
spain £14.7 billion
italy £5.5 billion
Greece £1.4 billion
ireland £50.5 billion
portugal £763 million.

Barclays
spain £45.5 billion
italy £30.7 billion
ireland £4.1 billion
greece £366 million
portugal £12.1 billion

HSBC
spain £8.9 billion
italy £8.2 billion
ireland £245 million
greece £4.6 billion

how does this all link in with the title?

because certain sites in greece have effectively been mortgaged with the private investment. many people in greece fear that their famous sites such as the acropolis, home of the Parthenon temple, and even some holiday islands including Corfu could end up in foreign ownership.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4ebab5d8eb55.jpg[/atsimg]

The Parthenon (Ancient Greek: Παρθενών) is a temple on the Athenian Acropolis, Greece, dedicated to the Greek goddess Athena, whom the people of Athens considered their patron. Its construction began in 447 BC and was completed in 438 BC, although decorations of the Parthenon continued until 432 BC. It is the most important surviving building of Classical Greece, generally considered to be the culmination of the development of the Doric order. Its decorative sculptures are considered some of the high points of Greek art. The Parthenon is regarded as an enduring symbol of Ancient Greece and of Athenian democracy and one of the world's greatest cultural monuments. The Greek Ministry of Culture is currently carrying out a program of selective restoration and reconstruction to ensure the stability of the partially ruined structure.

without sounding like fearmongering.. there is a real danger to the western world and our way of life.. lets all hope we can pull through these bad times.

some commonly asked questions about the crisis answered.

is the euro crisis over?
no, but the immediate collapse of the eurozone has been prevented.

why dont the eu boot greece out?
germany and france want the single currency to work. fallout form a greek collapse could hammer their banks

how is the uk affected by this?
a crisis in europe affects all of us. its the uk's biggest export market. it also hits the stock market, lowering the value of savings and pensions. uk banks have a fortune tied up in eu countries.

is there a bigger threat?
ir president obama falls to strike a deal with opponents to borrow more money it could cause the us to default on debts, sending shockwaves aroind the world.
then the S will really hit the fan

i have used £ as a currnecy as it is the currency i use.. the current exchange rate for the $ is.. £1 = $1.63
and euro is £1 = 1.13 euro

The scenario being played out is similar to the million dollar homeowner facing default and foreclosure...so the first response is to borrow to pay the mortage. After the realization this is not working... you have the yard sale to make as much as possible to put off the future in hopes that things turn around and you can escape foreclosure...maybe by a better economy, a better job, maybe by an influx of capital from some miracle.

That is where europe and even America is now. Putting off the inevitable for one more month with a yard sale. So, Europe is selling monuments, govt buidings, highways...just like the US.... I think California sold it's State House with exclusive rental aggreements for the next 30 years. Some states are selling highways...services, etc.

Ring around the Euro, Pocket full of IOU, Achoo-Achoo, We all fall down.

The Rape of Europa.

www.cremationofcare.com...

There is something that is not adding up or has properly been explained with all these economic problems. What happened to the $16 Trillion the US Federal Reserve handed out to international banks? I am not sure how many housing loans went bad, but with 2 million bad housing loans at an average $500k it is only 1 Trillion dollars to sort this mess out. What else is going on?

It does look like the banks are attempting financial takeover of the world through debt slavery and buying the political process. Governments are losing more and more capability in managing the important social infrastructure of the economy. Where is this capability going and can we trust it?

Interesting that Norway is absent from your listings?

we're scrwd
learn to grow something

Originally posted by Dr Expired
Interesting that Norway is absent from your listings?

not sure what you mean by that..

Norway may be in the European continent (47 countries and dependencies) but it isnt part of the European Union (27 countries) nor is it part of the Eurozone (17 countries)

thats why it is absent from the listings.. the post is primarily about the eurozone collapse (euro currency)

Norway is one of very few western European countries not to be a member of the European Union. Norway has held a referendum on the issue of EU membership twice, first in 1972 and then again in 1994. On both occasions, a rather narrow majority of the Norwegian population rejected membership (in 1994, 52% were against and 48% were in favour).

www.eu-norway.org...

reply to post by Misterlondon


Now that this "terrorist" attack occured any bets on when will Norway join the EU for the sake of "security?"

excellent post, with some keen insight.

One thing rarely mentioned in this whole fiat currency fiasco is actually the real core of the problem. When money is loaned, it is printed. When a country is loaned 100 billion, that 100 billion is printed up on the spot - it lowers the value of the fiat currency in circulation which is a form of tax through inflation. But the real issue is they do NOT print up the interest to be paid back. So the 100 billion the country accepts, it needs to pay back 2-300 billion and that money has NOT been put into the system. For the country to pay it back, it must get it from someone else - wars are often fought to simply pay back the interest on borrowed money by seizing assets. Since this is usually unacceptable, a political or religious excuse is used.

For Greece to pay back the money it owes, he needs to get it from someone else - who? Greece can't go to to war to seize the assets of another country, it can't create enough product to keep up with the interest payments, so where is the fiat money going to come from to pay it back?

It should be noted the reason for the rich being rich is the poor. The poor foot the bill for the money not printed when it is loaned out, they are the one's who have been paying the interest. The poorist of the poor, are the interest payers - the slaves. The entire country of Greece has been enslaved by the interest not be printed up at the time of the loan.

reply to post by Dr Expired

Norway is neither in the EU nor in the Eurozone. Its politicians actually listened to the wishes of the Norwegian people. In addition, Norway has a huge sovereign fund from its proceeds of oil and gas, making it financially independent.

The Government Pension Fund of Norway comprises two entirely separate sovereign wealth funds owned by the Government of Norway: The Government Pension Fund - Global (formerly The Government Petroleum Fund) The Government Pension Fund - Norway (formerly The National Insurance Scheme Fund)

As of the valuation in June 2011, it was the largest pension fund in the world, although it is not actually a pension fund as it derives its financial backing from oil profits and not pension contributions. As of 31 December 2010 its total value is NOK 3,077 billion ($525 bn),[1] holding 1 per cent of global equity markets.[2] With 1.78 per cent of European stocks,[2] it is said to be the largest stock owner in Europe.[3]

Source: Wikipedia

However, it seems that the EU has its beady eyes on this wealth. Yesterday I read that Norway will be or has been asked to contribute to the European 'rescue' fund. I wish I could find the link - I think it was EUobserver or European Voice or such. It was tucked away at the bottom of a related article.

Having seen how nations like Lybia get gobbled up because of their oil and their sovereign funds, I fear what might happen to Norway unless Norway kowtows to European (read German) demands.