Norway "Tragedy" give me a break.............

Originally posted by Reaper2137
Face palm this whole thread... although it did give me a good chuckle ... other than that a waste of space.. you have no concept of how a real war works.. this planet hasn't seen a good war since world war two. this that is going on in norway is just terrorism if it can be called that, its sad but it was not done by any one that wasn't a citizen of that country, he wasn't from Libya or any other third world countries.

i would really like to see your response if your family member was killed through this, see how much of a chuckle it would be then

reply to post by Helious


90 flags and 130 stars for a hateful misinformed rant clumsily veneered as a political commentary?

Are any of you actually reading the post or is it easier to see the tactless headline, star and flag the comment then go about your business thinking you've somehow "stuck it to the man" because you voiced your displeasure at the ever nefarious TPTB by bumping this thread?

Does the premise of blaming this tragedy on the Norwegians still apply now that the facts are coming in and the terrorist was a home grown radical fighting what he saw as Marxist and Muslim subversion?

It seems painfully obvious to me that by the OP's criteria in prematurely condemning NATO as the catalyst in the opening post when it was thought the terrorists were muslim extremists, now that the facts have named a Norwegian acting against perceived muslim aggression the OP's criteria should indict the muslims as "provoking" and "having this coming" for their actions and beliefs?

It would be wise to learn something about an issue before taking sides. The opening post of the thread reads like someone who has little idea what NATO is, why it exists and what it can and can not do but knows it is "bad" because it is currently fashionable to berate NATO's current involvement and perceived failures in Libya's internal problems on anonymous internet message boards.

A bit of research may show that for 60 years NATO has played a key role in western european diplomacy through some very dark times, much to the approval of its member states.

Fact: NATO has nothing to do with Iraq.

Fact #2: Regarding NATO's "illegal" war in Afghanistan...

The 11 September attacks caused NATO to invoke Article 5 of the NATO Charter for the first time in its history. The Article says that an attack on any member shall be considered to be an attack on all. The invocation was confirmed on 4 October 2001 when NATO determined that the attacks were indeed eligible under the terms of the North Atlantic Treaty

NATO update/Invocation of Article 5 confirmed

Fact #3: NATO's role in Libya is illegal now? Have you forgotten the three weeks of the world crying foul because europe and the U.S. were hesitant to get involved?

During the 2011 Libyan uprising, violence between protestors and the Libyan government under Colonel Muammar Gaddafi escalated, and on 17 March 2011 led to the passage of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, which called for a ceasefire, and authorized military action to protect civilians. A coalition that included several NATO members began enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya shortly afterwards. On 20 March 2011, NATO states agreed on enforcing an arms embargo against Libya with Operation Unified Protector using ships from NATO Standing Maritime Group 1 and Standing Mine Countermeasures Group 1, and additional ships and submarines from NATO members. They would "monitor, report and, if needed, interdict vessels suspected of carrying illegal arms or mercenaries".On 24 March, NATO agreed to take control of the no-fly zone from the initial coalition, while command of targeting ground units remains with the coalition's forces. NATO began officially enforcing the UN resolution on 27 March 2011 with assistance from Qatar and the United Arab Emirates

Statement by the NATO Secretary General on Libya arms embargo

NATO to police Libya no-fly zone

Gates calls for more NATO allies to join Libya air campaign

Your comparison to Fascist Germany is uncalled for and in very poor taste as well. It seems more often than not that those who cry Nazi are the ones who have the least idea what it means. You not only tarnish those who truly try to right the worlds injustices you cheapen the memories of millions of innocents who died at the Nazi boot heels.

If you are truly so misguided as to honestly believe you live in a fascist or totalitarian society, you need to get out and see the world. Spend a week in Pyongyang or Gaza and then repeat that bit to everyone.

As we speak the civil authorities in Damascus are kicking in citizens doors, killing those who resist and jailing others for the crime of reporting the truth to the world.

Do you really have the audacity to compare your simple complaints to people that are fighting and dying for the same basic rights you are exercising right now on this message board without a second thought?

Here's a final bit to chew on...

The U.S. has been responsible for a few terrible events in modern history, most notably the death of over a million civilian non-combatants through the strategic bombing of Germany and Japan culminating in the atom bomb raids (the same group you were glorifying as "just" and "for a good cause" in a previous post were responsible for the deaths of more innocents than any other action in any other war.)

Even in those desperate times, in the case of Germany an effort was made to try and minimize the collateral damage by rejecting the British practice of night time "area bombing", choosing instead to accept higher losses to pursue the relative accuracy offered by daylight raids.

The same America invested billions of dollars into the Japanese and German infrastructure out of the obligation that a victorious civilized nation is morally compelled to help the defeated feed their peoples and rebuild the tools of self sufficiency.

There has never been a nation in the history of human civilization that has wielded such power as The United States military but taken such extreme measures to keep the destruction of innocent lives and property to an absolute minimum as witnessed in the last 20 years.

I believe if Helious is honest with himself, a little education and a good amount of self reflection on the truths and values he has come to believe is on order. What is the root of the factually skewed, misguided hatred and poor taste expressed in the OP?

A general apology for being hateful towards your country and an undeserving group of servicemen doing a tough job would be in good form as well..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Helious

 

Although I agree with your concept, I don't fully agree with your logic..

Civilians on BOTH sides have no say in what is happening and yet it is always them that are targeted..

It would be better if they bombed Government or Military sites IMO and then they may be justified..

wrong! No one is truely innocent We are all complacent either through ignorance willfully or otherwise, inactivity in the struggle for freedom or those participating in the tyranny and opression of the majority and the only ones that aren't, are those that are out there fighting for freedom against these oppressors. We need to make a stand and each day we refuse to for whatever reason is another day many innoccents will die! Although i believe we are all responsible, I don't in any way support these heinous acts on either side of the fight! I believe that violence should only be used as a last resort and should only be carried out on those that are responsible for loss of life, liberty and the right to persue either! When violence is used without people knowing all the facts it can easily be turned around to work against the struggle! As will probably be the result with the norway incident!

Originally posted by Battleline
reply to post by Helious

 

A good take on the reality of the world not just the U.S but as you have seen on this post people don't like realism,they live in there own little ridaculing world and run there mouth with no real debate or resolution.

Being a realist is not easy in a world with people that hand you a ultimatum to notify Noeway or your a Troll,thats a new one I haven't seen yet,the "shills" seem to be getting desperate when they really have no debate..............................I guess there talking points sheet's are lacking good response these days.

I totally agree with you. Realism is the enemy of elitism, willful ignorance and corporate media rhetoric! People don't want to hear the truth until it effects their ability to live and then they will only listen so that when it's confirmed by whatever source they will know what to expect next!

reply to post by Helious


If you really believe what you posted, then go hug a muslim and see where it gets you.

Originally posted by nuttin4U
Funny how most of you missed the important parts...1) they were TEENS, not children. HUGE difference. 2) they were teenagers attending the Labour Party youth wing summer camp. So...correct me if i'm wrong...but weren't these the kids of government officials; for the most part?

All i know, is that it reminds me of this: OK City Bombing

Question: How does 1 person make 80+ kills? Come on now??? That kind of skills...shouldn't be wasted...it should be in Iraq...lookin' for "terrorists". (hahhah)

I will say this...i feel like life.....our lives....during these times.....is like watching a block-buster, motion picture. So far, we've had mounds of snow, floods, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, heatwaves, sinkholes, wars, financial problems, government problems, food problems, drug problems, and most importantly MENTAL PROBLEMS. And, we still have 4+ months left!

Can't wait for Christmas!!!

This is the time of great changes. Hopefully we can change our lives for the better and have a world based on equality instead of profits, oppression and war! Is Gaia trying to stomp us out like a scurge on the skin of the world? cause It's as if the world knows what we're doing to it and is somehow rejecting us like a disease or virus! These changes were even described in the bible.

Originally posted by thedarktower

Originally posted by Reaper2137
Face palm this whole thread... although it did give me a good chuckle ... other than that a waste of space.. you have no concept of how a real war works.. this planet hasn't seen a good war since world war two. this that is going on in norway is just terrorism if it can be called that, its sad but it was not done by any one that wasn't a citizen of that country, he wasn't from Libya or any other third world countries.

i would really like to see your response if your family member was killed through this, see how much of a chuckle it would be then

eh, you either misunderstood my comment or I don't know.

I meant that it was funny to see what a crack pot troll would swing so low as to the OP's thread contains Hope that makes sense.

I would chuckle very, very much if it was one of my family. evil bastards the whole lot.

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by muzza1875
Sorry but what the flying **** does a mad man who goes on a killing spree, murdering dozens of children got to do with NATO or tptb or the fact "WE ARE AT WAR"?
I agree that the media doesn't report on killings around the rest of the world like they should, especially when it is by the hands of our troops etc, but its not everyday dozens of children are massacred like this in Europe or anywhere else for that matter.How can you not expect the media to report on this? A country like Norway is known to most to be conflict free and relatively quite and peaceful and so the European public take notice when this happens right on they're back door, sadly the public don't really care what goes on on the other side of the world because either: they are tired of hearing about all the killing in the middle east which occurs everyday or they don't care because they think it doesn't concern them.
Even if this hadn't happened in Norway(say instead Iraq Or Afghanistan) it would still have got alot of attention from the media,
Think you need to stop smoking the wacky baccy because you sound like a loony.
Like someone posted above not everything is a conspiracy!.

edit on 23-7-2011 by muzza1875 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-7-2011 by muzza1875 because: (no reason given)

i'm sure Plenty of children are massacred every day as well as murdered through other means so stop being so nieve to think if Middle Eastern children were killed by accident by NATO or US forces that you would find the corporate media reporting on it! Also these were not children they were teens! Things become conspiracy through a control and or elimination of witnesses, informantion and evidence. Then disinformation is used to show the contrary. With those of us that are willfully ignorant it's easy to make facts turn to unlikely conspiracies especially when all media outlets are controlled by only 5 people in the US!

reply to post by Drunkenparrot

90 flags and 130 stars for a hateful misinformed rant clumsily veneered as a political commentary?

First, let me say that I appreciate your perspective and comments on NATO. It is hard to determine the number of additional lives that may have been needlessly lost (i.e., Kosovo etc...) without NATO involvement to minimize the effects of tyranny.

I think the OP's main point was to emphasize the large number of civilian casualties that are a by product of any war and how the lives lost generally do not get the attention by the MSM as in this Norweigian event.

I would compare this U.S. event coverage by the MSM of the event in Norway somewhat similar to the U.S. Oklahoma City event, although McVeigh had a couple of accomplices and the media didn't seem to chastise the ATF operations that escalated needless fatalities involving children with their botched operation.

McVeigh, a militia movement sympathizer, sought revenge against the federal government for its handling of the Waco Siege, which had ended in the deaths of 76 people exactly two years earlier.

en.wikipedia.org...

One of the OP's final thoughts...

If you are upset about this atrocity then please also ask what we are doing to civilians in countries we are unjustly at war with and are bombing on a daily basis. How many innocent lives have we taken and seen zero news coverage about because we are now living in a fascistic and totalitarian society with state run media and enforcement.

pretty much sums up the main point I perceived.

You made many valid points in your argument as well.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Mr Objectivity

 

You need to catch up with the news. This was a single psychopath just like Oklahoma City. Of course other psychotics will continue to try and link to their own psychosis.

May i remind you people that every assassination has always been a lone gunmen. How come this is so?
amazing how powerful one person can be except their always crazy and never benefit from it but i can promise
that someone else always does. i'm not saying that there has never been any crazy lone gunmen but i do think that many of them were manchurian candidates programmed through MK ultra. Though I doubt this guy was but
i don't think we will ever know! I'm just trying to say without facts we can never rule anything out and unless you've seen it with your own eyes you will never have all the facts!

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by SecretKnowledge

Originally posted by Reaper2137
Face palm this whole thread... although it did give me a good chuckle ... other than that a waste of space.. you have no concept of how a real war works.. this planet hasn't seen a good war since world war two. this that is going on in norway is just terrorism if it can be called that, its sad but it was not done by any one that wasn't a citizen of that country, he wasn't from Libya or any other third world countries.

there is no such thing as a good war

Of course there are, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Its good for population control for starters, we really need some help there war is a good way to thin out the herd.

If you want to thin out the herd then start by killing yourself. I'm not surprised though i am disapointed that so many of you people in the military are human animals intent on murdering. at least the animals in the wild that kill do so to feed and usually don't kill their own species. If you believe wars are to reduce populations then you are even more misguided! Wars are about resources, expansion of empire and profits, with you being a military man I would think you would know that. Why don't you leave the discussion to the intellectuals and we will leave the murdering to people like yourself!

Originally posted by Helious
First off, let me say that my heart, mind and soul goes out to the families who have lost loved ones in what has happened to this mostly peaceful Nordic country. I wish no ill will nor loss of life to anyone, anywhere in the world.

That's good, let's not forget the soldiers on the U.S.S Liberty that were murdered by the Jews either! It's a global cabal, and America and Israel have the blood of many on their hands! We will eventually pay for this, and the Jews as well. It won't be pretty.........

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by SecretKnowledge

Originally posted by Reaper2137
Face palm this whole thread... although it did give me a good chuckle ... other than that a waste of space.. you have no concept of how a real war works.. this planet hasn't seen a good war since world war two. this that is going on in norway is just terrorism if it can be called that, its sad but it was not done by any one that wasn't a citizen of that country, he wasn't from Libya or any other third world countries.

there is no such thing as a good war

Of course there are, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Its good for population control for starters, we really need some help there war is a good way to thin out the herd.

If you want to thin out the herd then start by killing yourself. I'm not surprised though i am disapointed that so many of you people in the military are human animals intent on murdering. at least the animals in the wild that kill do so to feed and usually don't kill their own species. If you believe wars are to reduce populations then you are even more misguided! Wars are about resources, expansion of empire and profits, with you being a military man I would think you would know that. Why don't you leave the discussion to the intellectuals and we will leave the murdering to people like yourself!

Ah, I would much rather kill people such as your self You do nothing and bring nothing to the table except talk.

A lot of animals kill for the sake of killing and will even kill their own kind. I don't expect you to know this because it would require you to look past your own nose and do some research.

I never said it was the only purpose of war just a facet of it. Than again a intellectual such as your self should know how to have some comprehension of what your reading but I don't think so. When I do find some intellectuals I will defer to them but until than I'm left with only mediocre people such as your self.

We are animals you can be a man and except that because its true or you can hide behind your so called "intellectual" facade either way I could care less.

reply to post by Helious


He may speak out of term but the truth falls from his mouth.

It is interesting reading all of the posts on this ATS thread and others on the same topic to date. Many open intelligent minds are at work trying to understand this atrocity. There are many perceptions and interpretations (aka "conspiracy theories") that have arisen.

It will be interesting to use the information acquired as the investigation and court proceedings continue, to support our arguments. Many of our perceptions may be challenged by new information and some confirmed. Time will tell. Hopefully we will ultimately find the truth for those who were killed, and effect justice for those who are linked to this tragedy.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


What was so hateful what the OP has stated? is it because he made anti- NATO comments in his post? NATO ARE the New Nazis.

As we speak the civil authorities in Damascus are kicking in citizens doors, killing those who resist and jailing others for the crime of reporting the truth to the world.

reporting the truth to the world? what truth? dont you realize and get it that all the middle east revolutions are manufactured by the united states and britian in the project for a new century.

for a few terrible events in modern history, most notably the death of over a million civilian non-combatants through the strategic bombing of Germany and Japan culminating in the atom bomb raids (the same group you were glorifying as "just" and "for a good cause" in a previous post were responsible for the deaths of more innocents than any other action in any other war.)

Responsible for a few terrible events in modern history? really what about Americas role of supporting terrorist groups making them fight wars for america and its puppet allies? america during the bosnian conflict has transported Islamic terrorist groups from overseas into bosnia killing innocent serb civilians.


And for what is happening in the middle east and the fake uprisings its called

its called kill everyone who gets in the way and pay a bunch of mercenaries to do it for you that way you can hide behind them

Thats right Sheeps, same crab in Syria why Syria you may ask? duh the russians have a huge Naval base now i wonder what happens when a pro Washington puppet minster is installed i wonder do you think he will approve of that base? No he wouldn't.

reply to post by raiders247


Head on head on. You are right this will just take the attention away from what really matters. That Greece cheated their way into the EU, that USA is bankrupt, that we are owned by good damn saudia arabia and that we are no longer on top of things.

Eventually this atleast here in the north will take focus away from everything else as it is already doing.

Thanks,

Originally posted by Reaper2137
this planet hasn't seen a good war since world war two

After this comment I lost all respect for you... and I don't even know you.....

My grandad died in that "good" war.... and many many people died so you could have the freedom to peddle your ignorant opinions online... remember that......

Originally posted by PerfectAnomoly

Originally posted by Reaper2137
this planet hasn't seen a good war since world war two

After this comment I lost all respect for you... and I don't even know you.....

My grandad died in that "good" war.... and many many people died so you could have the freedom to peddle your ignorant opinions online... remember that......

So did some of my family.

Still it seems like wars is the only thing REALLY progressing us as species. It seems like when there is no wars people are not happy for some reason. Perhaps people do need something large to focus there minds on.??

Thanks,

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom

Originally posted by Reaper2137

Originally posted by SecretKnowledge

Originally posted by Reaper2137
Face palm this whole thread... although it did give me a good chuckle ... other than that a waste of space.. you have no concept of how a real war works.. this planet hasn't seen a good war since world war two. this that is going on in norway is just terrorism if it can be called that, its sad but it was not done by any one that wasn't a citizen of that country, he wasn't from Libya or any other third world countries.

there is no such thing as a good war

Of course there are, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Its good for population control for starters, we really need some help there war is a good way to thin out the herd.

If you want to thin out the herd then start by killing yourself. I'm not surprised though i am disapointed that so many of you people in the military are human animals intent on murdering. at least the animals in the wild that kill do so to feed and usually don't kill their own species. If you believe wars are to reduce populations then you are even more misguided! Wars are about resources, expansion of empire and profits, with you being a military man I would think you would know that. Why don't you leave the discussion to the intellectuals and we will leave the murdering to people like yourself!

Ah, I would much rather kill people such as your self You do nothing and bring nothing to the table except talk.

A lot of animals kill for the sake of killing and will even kill their own kind. I don't expect you to know this because it would require you to look past your own nose and do some research.

I never said it was the only purpose of war just a facet of it. Than again a intellectual such as your self should know how to have some comprehension of what your reading but I don't think so. When I do find some intellectuals I will defer to them but until than I'm left with only mediocre people such as your self.

We are animals you can be a man and except that because its true or you can hide behind your so called "intellectual" facade either way I could care less.

True, we are animals... and you are a slightly less socially evolved one than us, or so it appears.... We may be animals, but we are also a civilised society that has developed complicated social laws and rules to protect each others feelings and to police our relationships with each other..... Other species of animals just don't have this social structure in such a comiplicated form as we do... (Arguably).... Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of the tennants of budhism, that all animals are as important as us on this planet, but all other species on this planet live in a chaotic dog eat dog environment which is governed by extreme violence and a decided lack of compassion..... This is the same argument that makes my blood boil when I hear of someone that has cheated on their boyfriend/grilfriend, and they use the argument that "I'm an animal, I need to procreate with as many people as possible, It is my animal instincts and I have no control over them"..... The same argument from people that claim a "red mist" decended when they killed that child, and that they didn't know what was happening... Sorry, but it's called taking responsibility for your actions... something that adults do. You cannot resort to this "I'm just a stupid animal who knows no better" mentality.... it does you no favours... and just makes everyone think that you don't think for yourself.... which being a soldier, is probably not too far from the truth... In fact, isn't that what training is in the army? Beating you until you're too scared to think for yourself and question your own dispicable actions...? Who on earth decided it was a good idea to give you a firearm on a daily basis??

Oh, and it is spelt "accept" in this instance......