Ron Paul to Congress: If Debt Is the Problem, Why Do You Want More of It?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Or better yet why don't we just quit using Federal reserve notes that come with interest and print our own interest free notes?

As I showed in the last part of my above post. A few months after the Federal Reserve act was passed we got the income tax amendment.

This was crucial to the bankers scheme.

So HOW did the bankers MAKE a fiat currency into the national currency???

...Given the previous hyperinflation, clearly there was ample reason for currency revulsion. So you can consider this argument a necessary but not sufficient precondition. What makes the universal acceptance [of fiat currency] stick is that government accepts its own money to expunge liabilities to it.

In plain English, fiat money has value because it is the only money you can use to pay taxes.

....The fact that this money is also the medium of exchange only entrenches its use. So the tax liability is a necessary pre-condition for fiat currency to work, something I will return to....
www.creditwritedowns.com...

[No wonder Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified was Ratified 2/3/1913, a couple months after the Federal Reserve Act!!!! cv]

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by RUSSO

 

I want to make one comment. The words "Free Market" DO NOT mean "Free Trade" as in WTO, NAFTA CAFTA .....

Free market means the mega corporations do not get to write laws that place the little guy at a major disadvantage as has been happening with increasing regularity.

One of the the most important aspects of Free Markets is free trade and open borders. Where did you ever get the idea that NAFTA is a Free Trade Agreement? Do you also think the patriot act is a patriotic piece of legislation? The title of a bill is more often than not the exact opposite of its actual name. The Patriot act is a piece of legislation that only traitors would love. NAFTA has nothing to do with free trade.

The biggest scam on the American people today... the biggest point of foolishness... is that they actually buy into the nonsense the government is telling them that the bad economy is because of excessive free trade with Mexico and China. NO! That has zero to do with it. Zero.

Whats happening in the US right now is a completely predictable consequence of the spending to GDP ratio rising rather than shrinking after the most recent federal reserve inspired economic collapse of 2008. In other words, excessive government spending leads to a long-term crap economy. In 2008 the government was supposed to get a wake-up call and shrink government. An expansion as is happening now is only going to make the economic disaster last potentially forever. The US will no doubt become a 3rd world country if it never shrinks back down the current debt to spending ratio of about 47% - meaning about half the money spent in the US is spent by government organizations including federal, state, and local sources. People are saying "oh the USA will always recover and always be great". Yeah it was great because of freedom... well, we don't have that any more. So the US will be like a 3rd world maggot crawling on the ground and its residents will live in squalor.

Free market economics is proven over and over again to produce a wealthy population and a much better off class of poor people as well. Its not that the USA is so great that made it great it was simple free-market economics. And that free market is absolutely gone at the moment. Therefore its economy could potentially never recover. Especially when you have complete fools blaming the disaster on one of two things:
1 ."Excessive regulations."
2. "Excessive Mexicans and Chinese."

If those two ridiculous and polar opposite "problems" are the ground work for "solutions" in the US, its just so obvious we'll all go to hell in a handbasket within the span of a decade or two. The US can't make it past 2025 in any meaningful form if Americans continue to have such a foolish view of the economic problems we have since their "solutions" are simply more problems.

I never thought i could see perpetum mobile of debt in action.
But US congress seems that they want one.

Do America within few years will have a "made in china" sticker? I hope not.

Ron Paul is a picture for us of what a politician would be who does not couch his every thought and action in light of his reelection chances. Is it only in Texas where you can use your head, find real solutions, and speak your mind and still get reelected? (That is NOT to say every Texas politician is like this).

Until we have such politicians, we are going to be in trouble. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Senators weren't always elected, where they? Weren't they originally appointed by the governor to represent the state while Congress represented the people and the President represented the country? We seem to have lost that balance of power. Instead we have the house, senate and president representing themselves to our detriment.

How much cool-aid have you people drank? And how many blue pills have you swallowed?

The problem isn't the debt, that is the symptom.

The problem is free market economics. Newt Gingrich's contract on America, that eliminated Glass Steigel, which allowed the banks to run another real estate ponzi scheme, that destroyed our economy, like the stock market ponzi scheme at the end of the twenties. Of course there was also a real estate ponzi scheme in the same decade.

The current huge deficit isn't from government spending, it is from the ongoing banking bailout.

The biggest problem is you people drinking way too much of that free market cool-aid, and screaming for more.

Get rid of the police who prevent white collar crime, and white collar crime will run rampant.

How is it that you people don't recognize that without anyone enforcing the rules, everyone will wind up cheating the system, and the system falls apart. That is what is going on in the business world, and you people keep calling for more of the same.

Just like communism, the free market sounds good, because both unrealistic ideologies ignore the criminal element.

What your tea bagging reps want, is to keep eleminating the people who prevent white collar crime, and white collar crime is what created this mess.

reply to post by RUSSO


Because debt is NOT the problem *Snip*. It's lack of jobs. It's lack of not enough Middle Class with the money to buy anything. It's lack of revenue. It's transferring revenue to the wealthy.

Ron Paul the idiot.



Mod Note - Please Review - Courtesy is mandetory

Originally posted by RUSSO
Ron Paul speaking the truth like always.

This video pretty much sums up what we need to tell our politicians who are "competing" with each other trying to make their party look better. Let's get down to the real issue, and stop all of the political phoniness.

Here is a radical idea.
Many corporations are being subsidized by the government.
They then also profit from the general population.
And often times find ways not to pay taxes.

Why not simply have the government put a hold or full stop on subsidizing companies.
And let these companies use their profits to operate, like everyone else.
So they can do their part in helping to heal the country.

Second thing of course is to bring the troops home. And stop pumping money into other countries (whether its for destruction or construction) who dont want the US there in the first place.

This way nobody has to touch government services that at this moment are necessary like Social Security, etc.

reply to post by poet1b


Oh no not this non-sense again...Sigh!

(Insults deleted for thier shear stupidity)

The problem is free market economics. Newt Gingrich's contract on America, that eliminated Glass Steigel, which allowed the banks to run another real estate ponzi scheme, that destroyed our economy, like the stock market ponzi scheme at the end of the twenties. Of course there was also a real estate ponzi scheme in the same decade.

We haven not had a free market in at least 70 years. Newt is not a free market advocate despite his rhetoric. Glass Steigal was a favor to Elite politically protected banksters who in an already highly regulated system have had a monopoly on the monetary system since 1913 and it's repeal has nothing to do with free market principles. It's repeal provided them the ability to expand credit and postpone the final collapse in thier money from nothing system.

The current huge deficit isn't from government spending, it is from the ongoing banking bailout.

Bailing out banksters "IS" government spending among the many other things they spend money on.

The biggest problem is you people drinking way too much of that free market cool-aid, and screaming for more.

The biggest problem is ignorant fools repeating leftist rhetoric and thinking that labelling communism free market economics makes it so. Calling theft honesty does not make it so.

Get rid of the police who prevent white collar crime, and white collar crime will run rampant.

The police are the criminals. Allow people the freedom to chose and they will chose whom ever provides the best goods or services every time and the thieves will go out of business! Freedom means free choice. There is no free choice in the current system all must play the only game in town hence it is not a free market!

How is it that you people don't recognize that without anyone enforcing the rules, everyone will wind up cheating the system, and the system falls apart. That is what is going on in the business world, and you people keep calling for more of the same.

The so called rules are what allow the elite politically protected corps to cheat the system. Take away the rules favoring the politically connected and cutting the little guy out and fair competition ensues and people will vote with their wallets and feet. Businesses including banks thus must provide good and honest goods or services or go out of business as people will take thier business to a competitor who will. This is proven to police the markets every time it has been allowed to operate freely without government intervention! The system is falling apart not because of lack of rules but because natural market forces are stifled by regulation and insolvent corrupt politically protected corps are propped up and bailed out. That is not a free market. To big to fail bail outs does not happen in a free market, insolvent and corrupt businesses fail as people go elsewhere for honest service. It is your precious rules and regulation protecting elites that are causing everything to fall apart!

Just like communism, the free market sounds good, because both unrealistic ideologies ignore the criminal element.

Completely false and ridiculous statement. Free markets are proven in history!

What your tea bagging reps want, is to keep eleminating the people who prevent white collar crime, and white collar crime is what created this mess.

What they are doing is giving favors to the politically connected as they always do and it is both dems and repubs.

Your philosophy is that regulation = prosperity when history and the current circumstances proves otherwise. Regulation has exponentially increased since 1913 with the advent of the federal reserve act eliminating the free market and granting a monopoly on the monetary system to the banksters. We are more regulated today then ever in history. And it has led to the disaster we now find ourselves in. To deny that is the height of ignorance. Repealing some regulation here or there in the current highly regulated system is nothing more then granting favors to the politically protected in already highly regulated system and has nothing to do with free market principles!

they shopuld have respondedw with "well your son is a screw up why do you still claim him?"

Originally posted by eNumbra
Logic and reason in economics and politics, goog god Dr. Paul; do you even want to get elected?

Best of circumstances the rest of paul's peers (and I use that loosely) are smply too dumb to get this. Worst case they'll just ignore him and continue robbing the public blind.

As good as it always is to hear the good doctor speak it remains an exercise in futility.

I think people are waking up to the lies and empty promises they usually get from windbag politicians. Logic and reason are hot commodities these days. Don't count him out yet. Money talks, remember. He is at Romney's heels in fundraising so the MSM can't ignore him forever.

Originally posted by debunky
No, the debt is not the problem
The not paying it back part is.
And not paying it back is really silly if you can print the money yourself!
(Which of course will cause inflation, but inflation is another thing that doesn't really hurt anybody (like debt))

On the other hand Paul "believes" that stuff will get paid somehow... thats right up there with perry asking jesus to take over.

edit on 22-7-2011 by debunky because: (no reason given)

No. The debt is the problem, together with the government's foreign imperialistic adventurism and a military out of control, not to mention the idiotic wars on amorphouse non-entities like "terrrorism", "drugs, and you name it.

The existence of the debt and the lack of money to pay it back is what creates the "not paying it back it back" part. No debt = no problem paying it back. Less debt = less problem paying it back. It's really that simple. The problem is that the those who are pulling the strings of the U.S. government (and it ain't Congress!) have and it seems have always had a a much larger appetitie for spending than the money in Congress' wallet.

The existence of the "debt" creates a drain on resources in the form of interest. Don't you understand that part? The interest on the debt is an unproductive use of the nation's resources.

With a little ambition and elbow grease, the people of America to do witihin their means much of what Congress spends and borrows billions and trillions of dollars to do. We need to get rid of the brainless drones and puppets who are "running" this country and replace them with patriots such as Ron Paul.

By the way, is Congress paying interest on the money it raided from the Social Security fund? If not, then the money Congress pays back to the Social Security fund will be devalued in proporation to inflation. It was in reality a theft of money which is paid back (theoretically) but at far less than the value stolen. OK. It's not "really" theft because those who enact the laws gave themselves legal permission to take that money and spend it and, therefore, the "theft" was legal. Nobody can be prosecuted or held accountable for it. That's the beauty of being a lawmaker - you get to redefine what would be a crime when anyone else does it and make it perfectly legitimate and legal so long as you're the one doing it.

Originally posted by ren1999
I like Ron Paul. I think he is a funny guy and some of his ideas I agree with.

However, DEBT is not what we should be focusing on right now.

We should be focusing on creating jobs. For those of you who have jobs, it doesn't seem like a big issue.

But underemployment is at 16%!

First jobs, then we'll tackle the debt.

Government does not create jobs they only kill jobs! All the arguments over government job creation is a misnomer. The only question is if they kill more or less jobs. If government regulates and taxes heavily they kill more jobs. If they lighten up taxes and regulation they kill less jobs. Either way they are job killers! And government jobs do not contribute to the economy they take away from it in taxes money and throw it down the government hole into oblivion that would otherwise be spent creating more jobs and expanding the economy by producing goods or services that are tangible and actually worth something.

So getting government to live within its means and quit going into debt is related to them killing less jobs because by living within thier means they have less excuse to tax and will be forced to cut unneeded costly regulation freeing up more businesses to create more jobs.

Why does the government have to borrow money?Don't they make it?

The debt is just an excuse to raise taxes!

reply to post by Scytherius


The wealthy people are our employers, they create jobs. The more revenue the goverment takes from employers, the less jobs they can create.

The government is the problem not the solution

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by RUSSO

 

I want to make one comment. The words "Free Market" DO NOT mean "Free Trade" as in WTO, NAFTA CAFTA .....

Free market means the mega corporations do not get to write laws that place the little guy at a major disadvantage as has been happening with increasing regularity.

Very good! Thank you for posting. Republicans need to come clean on this Free Trade stuff and why they promote it. Leftists may be against it simply because they are against Capitalism altogether. This is the perfect Hegelian dialectic left/right/synthesis solution.
To further clarify, we need to understand the role of politicians stacked to carry out the orders of the NWO. That is members of CFR in Congress, as well as members of DSA.
Let's just look at CFR first. This article discusses one issue, abortion(re:population control), then realize it is for every issue the NWO wants implemented, whether it be wars for profit and control, population control, or projects to promote the Socaiist side of things, which hugely increases spending in general.

Regardless of how you feel about the abortion issue, you should be concerned that one small group can fix votes in the United States Congress. If they can fix the abortion vote, they can fix any vote. That makes our Democracy a joke.

www.bilderberg.org...

Originally posted by GodIsPissed
Why does the government have to borrow money?Don't they make it?

The debt is just an excuse to raise taxes!

Congress used to have the power to mint coin based on the Gold Standard(dollars represented an amount of gold stored), but since the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913, and subsequently later we were taken off the gold standard altogether, the power to mint coin was given to the Fed. So, even though the "Treasury" mints coin and prints money.... the Fed is the controlling factor. Congress basically gave its exclusive power away, while giving the reins to control the money supply to the Fed. It's even more complicated, because although there are Federal Reserve Banks and they are private, there is a central reserve bank, and they are all controlled by the Federal Reserve Board, which is a board of overseers. They are supposed to be monitored by Congress, but with all the CFR agents in Congress(think Barney Frank overseeing Fannie) who is watching the hen house?

Now, how does the Fed control the money supply? One method is to control primary interest rates, which all the banks then follow. The Fed can tighten the money supply or loosen it, depending on whether they want to stimulate the economy or slow it down. If they stimulate it, we get inflation because they flood the market with new dollars(but not with more gold backed dollars, so the value of each dollar goes down).

The entire economic recession and crisis is engineered,, although they may genuinely have an out of control situation, but the collapse of the economy worldwide is for the purpose of bringing their own NWO solutions to the crises. Remember, the NWO is always about "crisis management" or as Antony Sutton puts it, "conflict management".
Add George Soros, the World Socialist who wants a Utopian world govt over which he and the Rothschilds and a certain elect rule financially and managerially, and we have the perfect storm.
One other note about the Fed, is that since Congress gave away its power to the Fed, it borrows money from the Fed(private bankers), and the Federal Reserve Central bank controls everything, Congress has a basically blank check to borrow whatever it wants and the taxpayers get the debt. Then Congress says, oh we have to balance the budget, but we can't cut SS or Medicare, or Defense, so we have to raise taxes. Once they do that, they again have forced the taxpayer to pay for all of their dirty deeds. And we know that there's plenty of dirt, black ops, covert CIA drug wars, guns for drugs, and now look how this ATF thing came out. I'm sure it's just the tip of hte iceberg. I hope it takes em all down though!

Another interesting point on all this is the role that Prez Kennedy played in the scene. He was born to wealthy family who made their money from bootleg profits, and he had power and backing. Even then the Shadow Govt had begun to overshadow many of the day to day issues. You can imagine the control they wanted over the money of the nation and all nations in fact. Then, suppose Kennedy woke up and smelled the coffee, as it were, and said oh wait, Im not so sure about this(remember the whole silver certificates thing?) and he may have balked and so they probably tried blackmail. I mean they had plied him with women in the WH and parties and so on. Think blackmail Eyes Wide Shut style. Then when he wouldn't comply, they taught him a lesson permanently.
The whole nation was in shock, and this again is considered to be a sort of MKULTRA brainwashing technique on a mass scale.
When we try to tell people that, they say, oh you are so tin foil!

reply to post by hawkiye


Yes, the ultimate goal is total enslavement of the people to a Statist govt and finally, a One World Govt. Notice how Obama is always on target with the ideals of the UN? He is not interested in national sovereignty. He is completely willing to sacrifice national freedom to the goals of world communism.

reply to post by dubiousone


If the military is out of control, it's only because it caves to the goals of the NWO, and every Sec of Defense since Eisenhower has been a member of the CFR(please see my post on how CFR controls the govt).

Originally posted by poet1b

How much cool-aid have you people drank? And how many blue pills have you swallowed?

The problem isn't the debt, that is the symptom.

The problem is free market economics. Newt Gingrich's contract on America, that eliminated Glass Steigel, which allowed the banks to run another real estate ponzi scheme, that destroyed our economy, like the stock market ponzi scheme at the end of the twenties. Of course there was also a real estate ponzi scheme in the same decade.

The current huge deficit isn't from government spending, it is from the ongoing banking bailout.

The biggest problem is you people drinking way too much of that free market cool-aid, and screaming for more.

Get rid of the police who prevent white collar crime, and white collar crime will run rampant.

How is it that you people don't recognize that without anyone enforcing the rules, everyone will wind up cheating the system, and the system falls apart. That is what is going on in the business world, and you people keep calling for more of the same.

Just like communism, the free market sounds good, because both unrealistic ideologies ignore the criminal element.

What your tea bagging reps want, is to keep eleminating the people who prevent white collar crime, and white collar crime is what created this mess.

No, the problem is not the free market, it's Free Trade, among other things. We are not operating under a true free market economy. Don't confuse the control of the multi-national corporations with true market-based competition. Real market based competition means that a company can compete with another by deciding the price of its product and making a better product or lower priced product than its competitors. It can use marketing to market the product and build that cost into the product.
When you have these large multi-national corporations, they get lobbyists in the govt to give them special breaks and subsidies, thus giving them an edge over their smaller competitors, thus eliminating the mom and pop stores as competition. Govt is basically in bed with these corporations, and therein lies a big part of the problem. They have an unfair advantage.
On the other side of the coin, we have the Statists and the Socialists who want more govt regulations, but you see this is just the "solution" to the problem. It is the NWO "solution", which gives the State more power over the individual. The govt then decides what corporations and small companies can do through regulations. In this manner, they can easily drive businesses out of the country to seek a way to cut costs and increase profits, and often just to survive the marketplace.
Add to that the wage/price spiral and unions demanding higher pay, you have another perfect storm.