We don't need cuts, we need jobs

when you got over 100 million people getting paid by taxes instead of paying them

we need cuts.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

The only way Obama can create jobs is to create a works program of some sort, and the only way that can happen is with congressional approval.

American businesses don't want to create jobs for Americans, but will happily use tax money to create jobs in foreign countries.

End tax subsidies for shipping jobs overseas or importing foreign workers.

Can't find qualifed Americans? Raise your wage offering and quit calling people out of work for more than six months automatically unqualified. Still can't find them? Then train them.

Until the real unemployment is under 8%, end all 501 worker import programs.

Yeah, because Keynesian Economics works where?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by macman

 

No, actually they don't. Employment slumped after both the Reagan and Bush II tax cuts.

See, you're under the naive assumption that if you give businesses free money, they will reinvest it into the business, allowing expansion, increased wages or benefits, or more employment. The trouble is, that doesn't actually happen. The money is pocketed as personal wealth and the business - with its employment, wages, and benefits - remains static.

Trickle-down theory requires that businesses be deeply invested into their community. Unfortunately, that's not the case - that notion is seen as a dinosaur, an archaic, extinct relic of eons past. if you have an MBA, you learned that a community is to you what a coal seam is to a mining company; you extract everything worthwhile, then shut down operations and look for the next place. A community is seen as a resource to exploit for wealth, and nothing more. Once profit slows - not stops, slows - close up shop and move on. Wal-mart is a prime example of this.

You can give them all the tax cuts you want. It's simply not going to trickle back into the community. If you want wealth redistribution - after all, that's what trickle-down is supposed to be - then you need to cut out the profiteering middleman. Skim the top, inject to the bottom.

Ah, the Huffigton Post here to save the day.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Looks like the average unemployment from the BLS suggests that there was a slight rise in 82-83, and then averaged off. 82-83 was what, around 9.7/9.6 (www.bls.gov...).
But did drop back down.

Lets compare that to now.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

or how about this.

www.tradingeconomics.com...
Looks to span Lord Obama's time in office.

reply to post by apacheman


I was the Safety officer where I worked. We actually had to keep MSDS books on things like water based felt tip markers. Chemicals, petroleum, etc. I can see, but felt tip pens are not that big of a pollutant compared to everything else. I think that you can go into any business or governmental agency and shut them down due to OSHA violations.

Just go to the OSHA website and look at some of the limiting regs that they put on business. You can stay for days reading the all material. It’s insane.

I agree, polluting the environment for profit is a no-go, but the Gov’t puts so many limitations when it comes to the energy business, that research into ways of acquiring it in a safe environmental way are next to nonexistent. I believe that there are safe and effective ways to acquire oil and natural gas that haven’t been explored yet due to cost.

Solar and Wind tech also produce some serious pollutants in their manufacture and the amount of land required to set up an energy plant for a town is enormous. I think that it will eventually be a doable business, but the tech is just not there yet.

I think we agree that jobs are the critical thing, I just don’t see the government as a help, but rather a hindrance. Unless we put the welfare recipients to work like the “CCC” program on local infrastructure. Then we would be getting something done.

reply to post by apacheman


I am not trying to put all the blame on Obama.

Manufacturing has left this country.

Part of it is wages. A big part of it is regulation.

America does not want the mess of making anything.

Both the Congress and the President are at fault in this mess.

I was not assigning blame on any one person.

They all need to be held accountable.

reply to post by apacheman

We don't need cuts, we need jobs

AMEN!!!

God damn time some one saw this as well. Exactly what I have been saying since the first "out sourcing" craze started. That BS was the foot int the door to screw our economy by sending work out side the country.

It is like imports and exports. We export products then turn around and import the same product from some where else. Does that crap make sence?

But we don't with our work force, we ship it over seas, but we are not bringing in any work...

We cant sent jobs out of the country and not expect it to effect our work force, those people who used to do those jobs are bent over with out even a courtesy reach around. It is no wonder the unemployment is off the charts, because IDIOTS keep sending the damn jobs away.

Where are our import jobs, wheres the freaking in-sourcing?!

Precisely my point, there is none. Not unless one honestly wants to count the meager new jobs opening in battery plants....

Point is, we must stop out sourcing, and bring the damn work back here where it belongs. The out sourcers, ought to be sent to Mogadishu, and if they can survive good for them and good riddance. Those people are economic traitors, selling out to the foreign.

We need to remember our economy was strong, until these child labor using cheap product loving fat cats screwed their own country.

Shame on any one who doesn't realize what that has done, and to those who know exactly what they have done, to Mogadishu I say. We don't need economic traitors, screwing another generation of workers. What jobs are our children going to have to look forward to?

None, if we don;t hold on to what we have, and take back what we have lost...

A star and a flag for title Apache. Damn straight. It's getting quite old not working. Let alone scary..

reply to post by TDawgRex


True, OSHA goes in for overkill sometimes.

But I don't see that as anythingmore than annoying: OSHA regulations aren't preventing job growth.

People who refuse to invest in the US prevent job growth.

When I watch the business news channels, all the talk about "investing" boils down to gambling on exchange rates in the short term, stock prices in the midterm, and bonds in the longterm. Rarely do I hear a disussion of actually leaving money in place long enough for it to work productively. It's all based on gambling. When things are built, they are usually ego thigs like Dubai's useless islands and skyscraper.

The wealthy only seem to want to "invest", if you can call it that, in service economies, not building real stuff or manufacturing real stuff.

Gambling is far more fun than true investing, and servants stroke the ego much better than equals.

I have a story for you. Jobs are disappearing from US of America but not from the world. There is a growing middle class in Asia and India for instance. I know this for a fact because in 2008 I laid off my workers and closed my facility in the US.

My company received 12 contracts for prototype engineering in 2007 for instance and we grossed about 1.25m for the year. In 2008 our company received only 3 contracts and lost about 300k for the year just in paying salaries and increased cost from vendors. At the start of 2009 we had to lay off everyone and close the books. This is not sour grapes in any way but I thought it was important to say where those contracts went that we did not get in 2008.

They went to companies in Mumbai that bid the contracts so low that we just could not compete. 3 of the companies we regularly received product development contracts from had their stock delisted by the second quarter of 2009. This is to say that even with their cost cutting measures of hiring overseas firms did not save these companies.

You can say what you like about the evils of protectionism and import taxes but our jobs from factory worker to engineer to executive are all going to other markets in very large numbers. USA is done for if we can not figure out some way to reverse the trend. The growing army of the unemployed will all become subsistence farmers just to survive.

Cut spending to the bone. Government is too expensive obviously. If our government is large enough to solve our problems it is large enough to take away all of our remaining liberties.No free trade without equal pay.

No tariff free imports with unequal worker pay. If we do not institute this only the very elite will have anything. They can move capital fast and find cheaper workers only if so called free trade agreements exist with worker exploiting job markets.

reply to post by ADVISOR


Not only do we have to compete with overseas slave labor.

In my state you must add 5 million undocumented immigrants.

You can't "Not make a damn thing" and dominate the world.

Cut the Corporate Tax Rate to 15%, dump Obamacare, open offshore drilling, honor the mining permits that the Obama administration squashed and sit back and watch. Plain and simple. We have regulations in place to deal with pollution.

reply to post by JIMC5499


And watch what?

More pollution, a demand to lower the tax rate to 10%, and huge multi-million dollar celebratory parties in some foreign country?

No thanks, been there, done that, seen that.

Still no jobs.

reply to post by apacheman


Where and when? You need to reverse the flow of jobs leaving the US. This is the only way to do it. Forget the Marxist propaganda that you have been fed.

reply to post by JIMC5499


You're the one chowing down on propaganda flakes.

Where and when?

The US for the past forty years.

Where the hell have you been?

Corporate tax rates have declined steadily since the fifties. Evry decline was met with demands for more cuts, but always fewer jobs.

Show me the proof of your assertions.

You know what this country needs more than anything?

Balance. The political factions need to act reasonably and retreat from their dogmatic positions.

We need Republicans to realize that raising taxes in certain circumstances and in certain ways is necessary for the economy. For example, hedge fund managers should not be paying less in taxes then their secretaries. Republicans also have to realize spending billions of dollars on the military also counts as government spending.

Democrats need to realize that some regulations are strangling businesses, while doing little or nothing to advance worthy causes like protecting the environment or protecting workers. Democrats need to realize that government needs to do something for the people, not just cut checks to people by handing out welfare or meaningless jobs in the government bureaucracy.

Tea Party members have to wake up and realize we live in the 21st century. We are no longer a former British colony made up of cotton plantations. We are (hopefully) an advanced economy that requires a strong federal government with an advanced infrastructure and complex regulatory framework to function.

reply to post by wayouttheredude


At what point do the people that run these companies and export our jobs become traitors?

Let them incorporate and move to Mumbai or Dubai I Say BYE BYE to these traitorous turds that would sell their own mamas for a quick buck. Bring back those tariffs! NOW! So we can manufacture and buy American!

reply to post by Leo Strauss

trea·son [tree-zuhn] Show IPA –noun

1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.

2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.

3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

trai·tor
[trey-ter] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2.
a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.

dictionary.reference.com...

Seems to me they passed that point a long time ago.

What the Tea Partiers are doing in Congress right now is treason in my eyes, and all of Wall Street is nothing but traitors.

I say offer Wall Street and the corporatists a choice:

Invest in your country and countrymen; leave with cash (folding only, not gold, silver, jewels, or e-currency) within a week; decorate a lamp pole.

Take your pick, but be quick about it.

I'm certain we can survive just fine without them.

reply to post by whyamIhere


So the problem with the economy can be blamed on everyone except the people who own the businesses that make up the bulk of that economy? It's the politicians' fault, it's the workers' fault, it's the customers' fault, it's the fault of foreign competition, but it's most absolutely certainly definitely not the fault of the people who are actually running the show. In fact it is so not their fault that they deserve yet another pay raise, the burden of which is to be paid by those workers and customers whose fault it really is.

Is that what you're saying, basically?

I'll bet in your next breath you say something about "personal responsibility"

Ronald Reagan stepped into a bankrupt America and said enough is enough.

Each Federal Agency was set up with a Trust Fund, they had to invest that to keep going. They weren't going to get Federal Appropriations anymore to keep going. Ronald Reagan fixed America.

Military Retirements for example, has one such Trust Fund. Whatever company they own...must keep making a profit.....so they cut jobs to keep showing profit if they aren't getting enough customers.

I don't think Ronald Reagan ever visioned it would result in America grinding to a complete stop....as the Federal Agencies sucked up the last pennies from the civilian market and the world to keep funding operations and retirements.

Maybe Ronald Reagan really did devise the perfect method to end an Empire. Whoda thunk technically you are paying Federal Taxes by spending your money on anything you buy? Buy a new Dell? Maybe the US State Department Retiree Trust Fund owns Dell and you just helped fund one of their retiree's monthly check.

This dying Empire has only 1 option....WAR....or DEATH

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
You know what this country needs more than anything?

Balance. The political factions need to act reasonably and retreat from their dogmatic positions.

We need Republicans to realize that raising taxes in certain circumstances and in certain ways is necessary for the economy. For example, hedge fund managers should not be paying less in taxes then their secretaries. Republicans also have to realize spending billions of dollars on the military also counts as government spending.

Democrats need to realize that some regulations are strangling businesses, while doing little or nothing to advance worthy causes like protecting the environment or protecting workers. Democrats need to realize that government needs to do something for the people, not just cut checks to people by handing out welfare or meaningless jobs in the government bureaucracy.

Tea Party members have to wake up and realize we live in the 21st century. We are no longer a former British colony made up of cotton plantations. We are (hopefully) an advanced economy that requires a strong federal government with an advanced infrastructure and complex regulatory framework to function.

Ah, the soothing fresh cool breeze of logic and common sense...well done. Just what I needed amid this sweatbox weather.

This is how it's done, folks. Take note.

There is one flaw in this otherwise-perfect argument -- It assumes that the function of government is to lead, to make wise, long-term, selfless decisions, and to take a broad, impartial view. Unfortunately, that describes no government I've ever known about or could even imagine. So we are stuck trying to do the job with a bunch of semi-comotose socipaths as elected officials, instead of enlightened men and woman able to think clearly.
Thirsty work.