Man's call for Obama assassination is free speech, not crime, court rules

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


Very good. The law was kind of a joke, though. It's rare that someone would actually get in legal trouble for such a statement, but now it is officially legal to do so. However, they said that it also depends on the specific context that you said the statement in, so it's possible to still get convicted in some circumstances.

This law was clearly an fnord. If someone said, "I want to kill my neighbor," or, "I'm going to go and kill my neighbor," that wouldn't be cause for arrest. It would not be a big deal. While it is illegal if there was a reasonable thought it would actually be carried out, that would only be if the person was actually scared it would happen. People could usually say they just joking, and would not be able to rightly convicted under the law. Obama did not know about this, and there is no evidence this guy was planning to take action against the President.

The fnord is, "The President is more important than you." The Constitution disputes that statement, but that doesn't mean much today. Clearly, thinking the President's life is more important than yours is ridiculous. Just because he may be in a position of power doesn't mean his life is more important. If someone is going to be raided, kidnapped, and put in solitary confinement just for making some comments against the President, why isn't that done for everyone? If they believe that should be done, they certainly have the manpower to do it; at least if they stop shutting down lemonade stands.

While this is only one law, at least it's a step in the right direction. Lately, all that's been happening is restriction of our freedom. Hopefully this won't get appealed and overturned by the Supreme Court.

Originally posted by pop_science
Honestly it all comes down to wording, time and place with things like this.

I'm sure they investigated the guy and had no way of proving a means/intent or any actual plan to do so.

Now say this with a house filled with guns, and possibly a few internet searches on the white house or where Obama was and go into any true detail about it they will not consider this "free speech".

Circumstance gave this guy a bottle of luck, don't be fooled and people please be careful or you'll either end up in a jail cell or put on a psychiatric hold.

Those are good points. It still depends on the context, and even if it's not technically illegal, you can definitely be held in a psychiatric center for making threats against the President. You can be put in a psychiatric center for pretty much anything, though, but I second that people still need to show restraint on saying things like, "I want to kill the President," or, "I'm going to kill the President."

Besides, if you don't mean it; why take the risk. Just because all this is a joke doesn't mean you should tempt people. It reminds me of the story when a guy refused to take off his hat in court and was jailed for contempt. It may not be the wisest action to do something like that; there's no to little reward (just a story of a judge jailing a guy for contempt), while it can wreak havoc on every aspect of your life, and even completely destroy it.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Incitement and calls for murder; the sort of things Ron Paul supporters clearly love.

Well, so long as the person under threat is a black man whose politics they disagree with.

Par for the course, really.

I don't know which one of your comments I'm more surprised by. The fact that you seem to think Ron Paul supporters want death and murder (which is absurd because most if not all of us want to end the stupid wars and death taking place) or the fact that you actually just used the race card!



I really have nothing more to say to you.

Originally posted by myselfaswell
Exactly how you could think letting that bloke off is a good idea is utterly beyond me, seriously, LMAO. I only hope that people who think this is a good idea just haven't thought through the implications.

Imagine someone threatening you in exactly the same manner. You now have no recourse to the law. So what do you do? take the initiative and end up in jail or sit around listening to your sphincter squeaking while waiting for the bullet.

Cheers

If you think the person was serious, you could simply get a restraining order on them. You could also get a gun. Perhaps if it is reasonably thought someone was actually going to kill you (making plans, has a gun, knows where you live, knows where you go to work, has made threats, etc.), they should have their gun taken away for a period of time depending on how many times they've done this, and then them even getting into possession of a gun before the period is up can be counted as murder. There are many ways to deal with murder threats without making them illegal.

I think threats against the President should be treated differently to threats against ordinary citizens.

I don't think that people should be arrested or charged for speaking of assassination of a head of state.

Why? Well because the things Presidents are responsible for and the massive repercussions of their actions - deaths of thousands or millions, poverty etc - are bound to stir up serious passions. There are agencies charged with the security of the President costing millions to maintain. He's well protected enough, we don't have to round up everyone who blows their top at insane leadership and makes verbal or written threats.

Governments should be afraid of their people.

I swear people are such tools... This arrest is nothing more then a fear and intimidation tactic. Do you really think that if someone were going to try and assassinate a US president they would go broadcasting it on the internet? Sigh! As I said this guy is just voicing the frustrations of millions. He is no threat and they know it but they would never pass up an opportunity to spread fear and intimidation....

Well I`m sure there is another red circle on the US now for this. Soon to be all red. Figure we have a mostly red country already kind of funny.

president.globalincidentmap.com...

Hey is that red circle in North Florida me.

Freedom comes with responsibility. I'm free. But I'm not free to run naked down the street, chasing people with a chainsaw. There would be repercussions. (Trust me )
Freedom of speech carries with it, that same responsibility. He is "free" to say anything he wants. But there is a responsibility attached to that freedom.
I think the court acted poorly.

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
I don't know which one of your comments I'm more surprised by.

Do you have the vapors? Do you need a fainting couch, madam? I had no idea you were such a hothouse flower.

The fact that you seem to think Ron Paul supporters want death and murder

Well, here you are, defending someone's "right" to call for the murder of another human being. I'm sure you think it's pretty funny. I'm also certain you wouldn't feel this way if you were the target. Especially not if you were getting the sentiment from hundreds of people.

(which is absurd because most if not all of us want to end the stupid wars and death taking place)

Only because war costs money. I haven't yet met a Ron Paul supporter capable of basic human empathy. You're upset that your tax dollars are going towards something you don't want them to go towards, and that's the limit of your involvement. If you were concerned about the people getting killed in these wars, then I find it hard to believe you're here yanking your pud over how awesome it is to advocate the death of another person.

or the fact that you actually just used the race card!

I did. I also played the politics card at the same time. Here we have a guy preaching the murder of Barack Obama. Here we have you, making an obvious exception to, what I surmise passes for your version of ethical behavior, to support him doing so. We're talking about a President who's basically the new Carter or H.W. Bush; no splashes, just treading water.

So far as I can tell, there's no rational reason to want to kill the president. So I have to seek out irrational reasons for wanting to see him dead. And the two leading candidates are hatred of him for his ethnicity, or hatred of him for his political party.

Maybe you could give me a solid, rational reason for calling for this fellow's murder.

I really have nothing more to say to you.

I seem to have pricked a nerve on the wilting orchid.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox
It's funny reading your posts. You belittle, deride, generally insult to get your point across. Did you miss your Tweet from Weiner today?
Like I stated in MY post, free speech comes with responsbility.

I would say that you went to the "Charlie Sheen School of Responsibility" for your reply repotiore.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Do you have the vapors? Do you need a fainting couch, madam? I had no idea you were such a hothouse flower.

First of all, I'm a guy. And I have no idea what a "hothouse flower" is...

Well, here you are, defending someone's "right" to call for the murder of another human being. I'm sure you think it's pretty funny. I'm also certain you wouldn't feel this way if you were the target. Especially not if you were getting the sentiment from hundreds of people.

You missed the point of my celebration entirely. I'm not condoning the murder of a President nor celebrating his desire to see death. I'm celebrating the victory of the Constitution. THAT is what Ron Paul supporters will be celebrating. We value the Constitution and Liberty.

Free Speech is protected under the 1st Amendment - yet we're not allowed to express such thoughts in anger towards the President. Hundreds of people could express that desire of me and they wouldn't be in trouble. He is held at a higher standard but at the very basics, he is just another human being. No more valuable than you or I. In fact, it is "by his order" that thousands of people are dying as I type this message. Do you not feel they should have a right to express a desire to see him taken out? Yes, the should. Our Constitution defends it. It's your basic God-given right.

Regarding pulling the race card:

I did. I also played the politics card at the same time. Here we have a guy preaching the murder of Barack Obama. Here we have you, making an obvious exception to, what I surmise passes for your version of ethical behavior, to support him doing so. We're talking about a President who's basically the new Carter or H.W. Bush; no splashes, just treading water. So far as I can tell, there's no rational reason to want to kill the president. So I have to seek out irrational reasons for wanting to see him dead. And the two leading candidates are hatred of him for his ethnicity, or hatred of him for his political party.

I don't care what color his skin is. So for you to pull the race card like that only demonstrates profound ignorance and a very clear troll tactic. You stated an antagonistic and untrue statement to get a response from me. Obama is an idiot. His skin color has no effect on that fact.

Only because war costs money. I haven't yet met a Ron Paul supporter capable of basic human empathy. You're upset that your tax dollars are going towards something you don't want them to go towards, and that's the limit of your involvement. If you were concerned about the people getting killed in these wars, then I find it hard to believe you're here yanking your pud over how awesome it is to advocate the death of another person.

As for your statement regarding Ron Paul supporters not showing any empathy? We seem to be some of the only supporters of any candidate who are standing up for the rights of many people all over the world. We don't support the illegal and unconstitutional wars. Not just because they're spending our tax dollars to pursue their own agendas but because they're killing countless numbers of innocent people. It's wrong.

I seem to have pricked a nerve on the wilting orchid.

When you make statements involving the race card, you instantly lose my respect. It is what it is.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Incitement and calls for murder; the sort of things Ron Paul supporters clearly love.

Well, so long as the person under threat is a black man whose politics they disagree with.

Par for the course, really.

What is par for the course is that when I saw your name in the thread I predicted your post would invoke the race card in some manner…

I should have put it in the predictions forum.

What percentage of your posts would you say make claims about the disenfranchised/victimized/oppressed "brown people" regardless of the topic in the OP?

I'd say in casual observation you are about 70% in your pursuit to inject the race card into about every topic to which you respond.

With regard any thread about Obama I’m going to say about 90%.

Not everything is about race!
Your race card must be laminated to last through the continued use. It gets old – like the boy who cried wolf, the race card no longer has any effect.

I recommend you put it in your signature and save us all the trouble.

This is about free speech – just because one says something should happen doesn’t mean he has the means or intent to carry it out. If someone else should act on what he says because they read it or heard it doesn’t make a person responsible.

People pop off about wanting each other dead all the time – the President is just another person. It’s the actual intent of the words that matter.

Hyperbole is alive and well. It’s just an over the top way to express discontent. It is not illegal to use hyperbole and the court there evidently agrees.

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


This is a good ruling. I always wondered how a threat can be a threat, when the person threatened has no knowledge of it. If the person finds out about the threat later and feels threatened then it is a threat. I cannot tell you how many times private people receive threats against them and actually feel threatened and law enforcement does little to protect that person.

I am not condoning the actions of person who made the threats in this article, apparently he is not someone I would ever want to associate with ever if this is how he thinks. He needs to grow up for being 47 years old.

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Do you have the vapors? Do you need a fainting couch, madam? I had no idea you were such a hothouse flower.

First of all, I'm a guy. And I have no idea what a "hothouse flower" is...

A hothouse flower is one that has been raised in a greenhouse or a controlled environment free from any threat or disease making it unlikely to survive outside in normal growing conditions.

It’s an insult about how sheltered you must be to have taken offense to what he is saying.

Insults are also part of WalkingRaceCard's MO.

Originally posted by EagleTalonZWhen you make statements involving the race card, you instantly lose my respect. It is what it is.

WalkingFox should change his name to WalkingRaceCard or something - if you want a laugh scan through his posts look at the OP in the thread and see how often, regardless of the topic, he makes it about the poor oppressed and victimized brown people.

It would be comical if not so pathetic.