Egyptian Boat People - Who were they?

In the Eastern Desert of Egypt at about 4500BCE there appeared a group of people complete with sea faring boats.

This group of people 'tagged' rocks as they dragged their vessels across the desert. Their 'tags' or 'rock art' shows them dragging their high-prowed, sea faring boats across the desert.

Wadi Barramiya rock art

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What are sea faring boats doing in the middle of the desert? It's obvious that they weren't the local inland desert dwelling peoples who had no need whatsoever of sea faring vessels so who were these people and what where they doing dragging their ships across the desert?

It is apparent by comparing the Abydos boat burials which can be carbon dated to 3000 BCE that the motifs of many of these pertoglyphs predate the Abydos boat burials.

Why did the Ancient Egyptians bury their dead in boats? Does that seem at all logical for a desert people?

It would appear to me that a peoples capable of crossing seas have appeared in Egypt dragging their boats across the dessert roughly 4500BCE.

Have we got here evidence of a lost sea faring culture? I think its possible...

Many of these patterns have been dated to the Naqada period of Egyptian history which covers approximately the period of 4500-3100 BCE. Modern research is currently being done to obtain datable materials found in conjunction with the petroglyphs to more firmly establish the dating of when the images were made..

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As the rock art in the Egyptian Eastern Desert does appear to date to roughly the Naqada period of Egyptian history it seems that it may well rule out the Sumarians...

Sumer was first settled between 4500 and 4000 BC by a non-Semitic people who did not speak the Sumerian language.[3] These people are now called proto-Euphrateans or Ubaidians,[

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Are we looking here at the same people that civilised Sumer? They appear to have arrived at the same time. So who are these 'Ubaidians' and where do they come from?

Dancing Goddess Wadi Hammamat source
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Did these 'Boat People' bring to Egypt, Sumer and other regions tales of a flood? Is that why they were so determined to drag their vessels across deserts rather than abandoning them? Is it their religious/historical texts that have been filtered and passed down through the ages to us as biblical stories and Sumerian epics?

The Inca God Viracocha

was described as "a man of medium height, white and dressed in a white robe like an alb secured round the waist, and that he carried a staff and a book in his hands.

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Is it POSSIBLE that the mysterious 'Ubaidians' set off from their homelands complete with boats and religious vigour to spread the word of the flood to distant nations? I think it is at least possible...

Did they bring with them a 'feathered serpent cult'? Well that's not beyond the realms of possibility either....

The Egyptian 'crown' here shows a serpent and a vulture... feather and serpent.

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The worship of a feathered serpent deity is defiantly documented in Teotihuacan, the dating of which is hotly disputed.

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Quetzalcoatl (Classical Nahuatl: Quetzalcohuātl [ketsaɬˈko.aːtɬ]) is a Mesoamerican deity whose name comes from the Nahuatl language and has the meaning of "feathered-serpent".[1]

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At the moment I certainly lean towards a culture that has spread its scaly wings across the globe and the Egyptian Boat People seem to me a good place to start looking for it.... I think its at least possible that a culture capable of crossing seas pre-dates Sumer and Egypt and it brought with it knowledge of stars (sea faring nations tend to know a lot about the stars), stories of floods, and other religious icons and stories.

If not who the hell was making these vases 3600 BC

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and these batteries?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/80aa2cf55661.jpg[/atsimg] source


There is so much evidence for an ancient sea faring culture that pre dates Egypt and Sumer that it seems shameful not to actively look for it.

Its my opinion that people that work within academia are often too afraid to voice opinions that would have them initially scorned so they simply don't do it. However its always been the people that took risks, the people that looked at the evidence and went against the views of the academics of the time that reaped the most rewards.

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I haven't tried to answer any questions but any luck I might of asked a few in a round about way.

Well, you say the Egyptians are desert people, but even in Antediluvian times they still had the Red Sea to the east and the Mediterranean to the North, as well as the Nile.. Just saying, to me it's no real surprise that the Egyptians were interested in boats.

The Ubaidians were a vastly different culture centered around the Tigris-Euphrates rivers, they're not connected to the ancient Egyptians or their predecessors. Teotihuacan is separated from ancient Egypt by thousands of miles and thousands of years, even more so for the Ubaidians.

Ancient cultures are bound to share some commonalities, boats, worship of animals (snakes, lizards, serpents among them), tales of celestial events, wars, etc. There are no tales of floods from the Ubaidians however, as they had no system of writing.

Here's 25,000 BC and you can see the movement of Africans in general.



genographic.nationalgeographic.com...

The boat pictures may have been made during the time the western desert was still grassland with lakes and rivers.

Originally posted by Ramcheck
Well, you say the Egyptians are desert people, but even in Antediluvian times they still had the Red Sea to the east and the Mediterranean to the North, as well as the Nile.. Just saying, to me it's no real surprise that the Egyptians were interested in boats.

Hi

I think the point I was trying very badly to make here was that the boats are

A. Pre-dynastic and very advanced
B. Clearly sea faring boats pictured being dragged across the desert
C. No where near a coast....

This isn't an ancient coastal peoples depicting fishing or something.... these are images of a sea faring peoples dragging their boats across the desert at a time that we have no record of such a sea faring nation. The boats depicted are high prowed sea faring boats not flat bottomed low prowed river boats.. The boats found buried at various places in Egypt are also often sea faring vessels not river boats...

The technology is out of place for a hunter gather nation, the people of that area of that time were meant to be hunter gatherers not sea farer's

These images are inland, they aren't found by the shore and no matter which way you look at it, the desert isnt a natural place for a boat people....

Originally posted by Versa

Originally posted by Ramcheck
Well, you say the Egyptians are desert people, but even in Antediluvian times they still had the Red Sea to the east and the Mediterranean to the North, as well as the Nile.. Just saying, to me it's no real surprise that the Egyptians were interested in boats.

Hi

I think the point I was trying very badly to make here was that the boats are

A. Pre-dynastic and very advanced
B. Clearly sea faring boats pictured being dragged across the desert
C. No where near a coast....

This isn't an ancient coastal peoples depicting fishing or something.... these are images of a sea faring peoples dragging their boats across the desert at a time that we have no record of such a sea faring nation. The boats depicted are high prowed sea faring boats not flat bottomed low prowed river boats.. The boats found buried at various places in Egypt are also often sea faring vessels not river boats...

The technology is out of place for a hunter gather nation, the people of that area of that time were meant to be hunter gatherers not sea farer's

These images are inland, they aren't found by the shore and no matter which way you look at it, the desert isnt a natural place for a boat people....

Yeah I see where you're coming from, I didn't mean to come across as a dick (but I did) It is a subject I'm interested in so I'll just shut up and listen.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
The Ubaidians were a vastly different culture centered around the Tigris-Euphrates rivers, they're not connected to the ancient Egyptians or their predecessors. Teotihuacan is separated from ancient Egypt by thousands of miles and thousands of years, even more so for the Ubaidians.

Ancient cultures are bound to share some commonalities, boats, worship of animals (snakes, lizards, serpents among them), tales of celestial events, wars, etc. There are no tales of floods from the Ubaidians however, as they had no system of writing.

Ancient cultures may share some things in common and I dont have any great knowledge about the antiquities but BOATS in the DESERT is ODD no matter how you look at it.


yes worship of animals is obvious but in my opinion the similarities between the Egyptian headress and the feathered serpent is worth talking about given that the distance is so vast, we could after all be discussing the snake/bird god v's the camel/ant god but we arent..... there are a gazillion animals to chose to worship..... Maybe one link too many for co-incidence?

Originally posted by Ramcheck
Yeah I see where you're coming from, I didn't mean to come across as a dick (but I did) It is a subject I'm interested in so I'll just shut up and listen.

rofl no you didnt come across that way at all, I shouldnt of posted the thread really before I'd double checked everything, its late here and really I ought to just go to bed and STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER! So taking my own advice... Im off for a ciggie and then BED!

Thank you for contributing to the thread, I'll try to make myself a little clearer tomorrow

Originally posted by Hanslune
The boat pictures may have been made during the time the western desert was still grassland with lakes and rivers.

Maybe, I don't know..... but grass, lakes and rivers dont explain sea faring vessels being dragged... It looks more like an expedition than a local peoples... Anyways bed for me until tomorrow

Oh yeah and (sorry OT) loving the 'Don't Panic'. Amazing series both the old and the new

Where can I find out more information on those batteries and also on the vase? I'm mostly interested in the battery though, I'd like to try and make one myself.

Originally posted by QuietSpeech
Where can I find out more information on those batteries and also on the vase? I'm mostly interested in the battery though, I'd like to try and make one myself.

It tells you in that link beneath the battery picture, the basic method.

mysterious small vase. A 6-inch-high pot of bright yellow clay dating back two millennia contained a cylinder of sheet-copper 5 inches by 1.5 inches. The edge of the copper cylinder was soldered with a 60-40 lead-tin alloy comparable to today's solder. The bottom of the cylinder was capped with a crimped-in copper disk and sealed with bitumen or asphalt. Another insulating layer of asphalt sealed the top and also held in place an iron rod suspended into the center of the copper cylinder. The rod showed evidence of having been corroded with an acidic agent.

Originally posted by Versa

Originally posted by Hanslune
The boat pictures may have been made during the time the western desert was still grassland with lakes and rivers.

Maybe, I don't know..... but grass, lakes and rivers dont explain sea faring vessels being dragged... It looks more like an expedition than a local peoples... Anyways bed for me until tomorrow

edit on 20/7/11 by Versa because: (no reason given)

maybe they were looking for a short cut to somewhere and it was better to drag the boats than build new ones when they found what they were looking for?


and wouldn't the grasslands and rivers be farther back in time than 4500bc?

i don't know, really.

Originally posted by Versa
A. Pre-dynastic and very advanced

The petroglyphs and carvings are, as your article said, from different time periods.

B. Clearly sea faring boats pictured being dragged across the desert

That's actually not shown. And the boats they are digging up are ceremonial... not intended for sea faring. They certainly weren't getting trade goods from places like England and the south of Africa and China (which would have been sea voyages)

C. No where near a coast....

But near rivers.

This isn't an ancient coastal peoples depicting fishing or something.... these are images of a sea faring peoples dragging their boats across the desert at a time that we have no record of such a sea faring nation. The boats depicted are high prowed sea faring boats not flat bottomed low prowed river boats.. The boats found buried at various places in Egypt are also often sea faring vessels not river boats...

Ancient Egyptian boats and other boats were often round or pointed keeled ships and some had high decorative prows.

Linking them to the MesoAmerican civilizations doesn't make sense, since the Egyptian culture died a thousand years before the Meosamerican cultures rose.

Excellent thread! I love expanding my knowledge on 'Ancient Civilisations'

Starred & Flagged.

reply to post by Versa


Hey Versa,
If you are interested in Ancient Egyptian sea goers,you should read the book called
"The Ra Expeditions"by Thor Heyderhal.

www.amazon.co.uk...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1311251410&sr=8-2

Its a great read about how Thor and friends used ancient Egyptian depictions of boats to recreate one from the same materials-reeds mostly.
It was his intent to show how the ancient Egyptians did travel to the Americas on these boats,and spread their knowledge to the people there,including their temple building skills.
I won't spoil the story in case you don't know how he got on,but its a great read-I recommend it.
He also thought the Egyptians colonized Easter island,and carved the giant statues.
up:

Originally posted by Byrd


Linking them to the MesoAmerican civilizations doesn't make sense, since the Egyptian culture died a thousand years before the Meosamerican cultures rose.

reply to post by Byrd


What about the traces of cocaïne in the mummies, as cocaïne only grows (to my knoledge) in the america's, there had to be a connection, trade route or something.

Then four years ago a German scientist, Dr Svetla Balabanova, made a discovery which was to baffle Egyptologists, and call into question whole areas of science and archeology to chemistry and botany. She discovered that the body of Henut Taui contained large quantities of coc aine and nicotine. The surprise was not just that the ancient Egyptians had taken drugs, but that these drugs come from tobacco and coca, plants completly unknown outside the Americas, unheard of until Sir Walter Raleigh introduced smoking from the New World, or until coc aine was imported in the Victorian era. It was seemingly impossible for the ancient Egyptians to get hold of these substances. And so began the mystery -

You might want to take into consideration the Marsh Arabs

images.travelpod.com...

Originally posted by Byrd

The petroglyphs and carvings are, as your article said, from different time periods.

yes, I don't dispute that, it still doesn't explain the images...

Originally posted by Byrd
But near rivers.

sea faring boats of an advanced design for people that were meant to be hunter gatherer types.

Originally posted by Byrd
Linking them to the MesoAmerican civilizations doesn't make sense, since the Egyptian culture died a thousand years before the Meosamerican cultures rose.

Actually yes it does, it could point to a culture that had contact with both and left cultural traces behind in both area's religions, technology and mythology. Its also worth pointing out that some people dispute the dates at sites like Teotihuacan.