Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

Originally posted by haarvik
The whole crux of the matter is that since the great social engineering that took place in the 60's, the divide between rich and poor has steadily increased. Prior to that one would have to be just about dead before they would accept any sort of assistance. People like my father and grandfather who worked countless hours trying to provide for their families. They didn't take handouts. When my parents divorced, my mother had to take welfare. But back then you had to work in order to get it. If you couldn't find a job, they found one for you. If you weren't willing to work, you didn't get assistance.

Now we have class wars because those of us who don't buy into the whole scam are sick and tired of supporting the lazy. There are a ton of people like me. We didn't settle for anything. We worked, sacrificed and scratched our way to what we wanted. If I were to become a multimillionaire tomorrow you bet your a$$ I would be taking it easy.

In the 80's I dated a single mother who was on welfare. I would find jobs for her and she would not take them because she made more on welfare than working. I once asked her if she had any pride. She said pride had nothing to do with it. It was her right to collect welfare as a US citizen. Needless to say that didn't last long. Those of you who support the notion of the poor welfare recipient have bought into the whole social project hook, line and sinker. I challenge you to sit back, evaluate your life and actually put a plan down on paper to better yourself without assistance. It is amazing what you can do when you have all of the facts in front of you. How do you become rich? How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

I really don't mean to always choose your posts but they must be clarified...

You've just stated yourself that it was in the 60's that someone would have to be near death before accepting help. Thankfully, that attitude died with those mummies.

You still must work in order to receive welfare (or as it is now called Temporary Cash Assistance). Were you still of the mind that the check was just automatically mailed on the first LOL! Firstly, it is now on a EBT card. Second, everyone who receives TCA must meet requirements by either being enrolled in a vocational program, completing 82-130 hours of community service (volunteering) or performing daily job searches to submit to their case manager (and you can only be in the job search activity for 4 weeks).

Are you willing to donate 80 hours of voluteer work at a non profit organization for (lets see the average amount of cash someone receives in Florida) $210 per month?

The statement you wrote about the single mom who refused to work because she would get more on welfare is a blatant lie. The average household of 3 receives $210 per MONTH not week but MONTH!

You and your type are just misinformed or worse BLATANT LIARS...

reply to post by Frira

That change which debilitates is not a mental illness-- it is an awareness. They know that trying and failing is a merciless event. No one who can help, will help. What little care there is is only from others who know that nothing can be done, and no help will come.

This is not true.

For a person, or especially a family, to get to a point where absolutely no one will help, means they have successfully alienated everyone they ever knew! It means they have taken advantage of shelters and churches and goodwill of their friends and families and destroyed any credibility they ever had. It means even perfect strangers can see right through their pitiful act and not show a bit of sympathy for them. It means they are getting exactly what they have earned, and likely what they deserve.

I'll tell you my approach, and experience, and I'll tell you that at least a dozen of my acquaintances have a similar philosophy.

**I will NEVER refuse food to someone that asks. It doesn't matter where I am, or what I am doing. The problem is, people often ask me for food, and when I offer to go inside and get them whatever they want, they change their story and they really need gas, so when I offer to go buy them a gas can and fill it up, what they really meant to say was they need CASH!

**I will NEVER refuse work to someone. I have a big yard, I have friends with construction companies, I have a little extra cash, I will gladly put someone to work if they ask. I will loan them my gloves, and some tools if they need it. I will put them up in a room for their first night or two to get them started. Guess how many "homeless" have ever taken me up on those offers? "Will WORK for food" my arse!

**As a matter of fact, I won't even refuse BEER to someone. If I see a sign that says, NEED BEER, or Will Work for Beer, I'll happily oblige.

What I won't oblige is being lied to, being taken for a fool, or being harassed by some loser. I will happily and violently respond to such harassment. I will give ample warnings, and then I will lose my cool. It has happened many times. I have taken the money out of a homeless guys pockets and tossed it into traffic after he repeatedly lied to me, changed his story, and refused to vacate my personal space! He's lucky I took it easy on him, because the next step was chambered in the door of my truck!

Sorry, but for all of you bleeding hearts reading these accounts on the internet. I dare you to go and try to help. Your opinions will quickly change. And yet, I still make it my mission to treat every single case uniquely, and I always offer food, I always listen to the heartfelt story (once), and I always offer work and shelter.

reply to post by apacheman


It is infinately easier to sell an idea today than it ever was in the past. Instant marketing is available, people all over the world can find your product or service easier. It is a knowledge society today. Ideas create wealth. It was far harder to make money 20 years ago than it is today. Ever hear of Ebay, Amazon, Facebook, GoDaddy?
Hundreds of others? Even in the arts. Harry Potter generated over $4bn over its life and its not done yet. Can you imagine books and movies making that kind of dough 30 years ago.

It was simply impossible to generate the kind of wealth even 20 years ago that you can today. Hell, there are thousands of folks who make a living buying and selling crap off of Ebay and folks who make a really nice living teaching folks how to make a nice living selling crap on Ebay.

As far as not being able to make it today, I started my company in 2003 and sold it in 2008. I think that qualifies as current.

reply to post by haarvik

Bullcrap.

How do you know they "worked hard"? How do you know they didn't steal it, like Bernie Madoff did?

Most of the great fortunes were built on theft, murder, and criminality. But once they have enough, wow, they're "hard-working". J.P Morgan didn't work hard at anything but stealing from his workers, murdering unionists, bribing the government and rigging the stock market.

You don't earn a fortune through hard work: it is usually accumulated through manipulation and bribery of government.

Originally posted by Frira
Reality check:

One step below what is described in the OP is homelessness.

It is a very long fall to the next level, with nothing in between.

TV's, and household appliances are added during good times of relative prosperity, but once the power goes out for failure to pay a bill, selling off the appliances is rarely the next step-- instead they try to hold on to what they have and skip mortgage payments or rent-- hoping for recovery.

Once the power or water is off, Child Protective Services can and will step in and either assist with relief to help pay the bills, or break up the family.

If no financial help is forthcoming-- the family loses all, and lives in a car. There may be some housing available, but many places have waiting lists.

Once an adult is homeless for more than a few months, the likelihood of getting off the street and staying off the street is very small. That becomes chronic homelessness. The change in the person's emotional state is usually debilitating for life. No one-- family, friends, co-works, neighbors, Church reaching out to save them-- it changes a person.

That change which debilitates is not a mental illness-- it is an awareness. They know that trying and failing is a merciless event. No one who can help, will help. What little care there is is only from others who know that nothing can be done, and no help will come.

Instead, people pass by talking on their latest i-Phone, sneer, "Get a job!" never guessing the person already works 40 hours a week. Before they can even rent an apartment or a room, they must first pay the utilities which they owed before being foreclosed or evicted. They have mountainess debts. Close family members are embarrassed, and say, "I don't what to do. He/she will just have to learn how to manage money-- oh, and by the way, did I tell you I think I know which model of this years BMW I want?... Maybe when Jack and I get back from France, we'll pick out the color..."

So, when the parent decides not to sell the child's x-box and the TV, sleepless that the decision seems to be forcing homelessness any week-- whenever the creditors come knocking... one might have a little compassion.

I work with homeless. I know their stories.

So how does one apply for a job, when your address is your car or a camp site in the woods on the edge of town? You cannot get a PO Box without a street address. Employers notice this and assume the person is a drug dealer, an alcoholic or deranged. Showing up at an interview with his or her "rig" (a backpack with everything they cannot afford to replace, but need) is a dead giveaway, but if they leave it at the campsite-- a newly homeless person-- usually a youth-- will help him or herself.

No TV, no electricity, one cannot even read or write in the dark-- only sits and feel one's uselessness-- knowing one was considered disposable by all those who they loved and knew. There is no socialization or entertainment in the dark, much less in the light of day when it freezing or scorching. So, the typical human will seek escape-- alcohol or drugs. And all the while, society who has no idea of their plight-- and takes no responsibility for watching them fall and not offering a hand, sits in judgment, saying, "They must have done something to deserve this. Someone should do something about these lazy bums! Surely they must all be rapists prostitutes and thieves-- we need to be protected from them."

And the homeless man or woman, knows that is how they are seen.

And it all started because the had an x-box and a TV just before they fell to the streets-- our streets.

This may be the greatest piece in this thread!

reply to post by simone50m


u know when i was little my grandparents would babysit me in the summer and they had no ac, it gets hot in the summer in the chicagoland area. u would be amazed at the wonders a few fans and open windows would do lol!! u know what i didnt sit inside playing xbox all day because there was none or cable or internet. i would play outside like a kid should. unfortunately they start the kids off young w the materialism nowadays and they get locked up w some a.d.d medication an xbox and air conditioning. gosh i sound like an old man, i'm only 34. i just stop and think sometimes and try and remember that is possible to live w out these luxuries.

reply to post by Cuervo


9 BUCKS?????

Did you forget the IRS will take 1/2 of that? So I get 4.50 cents....wooooohooooooooo..I CAN live LARGE!

reply to post by apacheman


I know it because my uncle is one of them. Served in Vietnam, grew up in the hills of Kentucky lucky to have shoes. Now he buys Corvettes at a whim and has millions in the bank. he worked hard for it. It wasn't handed to him. He treated his employees well. In fact, when he sold his company, he gave every employee a $100k bonus. now, don't you feel a little humbled by not knowing the facts before you spout off?

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
I couldn't wait to get to your post because I wanted to expose how easily people who at the best are on the outside looking in, and at the worst are liars, portray someone elses situation.

Lets go to the underlined when you compare your situation with a friends.

I'll take it that you are just someone interpreting her situation the wrong way and not intentionally lying. Since I work in welfare and employment i'm aware of the laws.
1. If she works about 20 hours per week at $12-$13 per hour her foodstamps are minimum. She may only be getting $20 worth per month.
2. If she's receiving $1300 per month in child support, that would totally disqualify her for foodstamps unless she has 20 children.
3. She also qualifies for no (unless she has a large number of children) public housing assistance because of the $1300 in child support.
4. Her working those 20 hours per week and getting $1300 per month in child support disqualifies her from any government assistance.

Admittedly, I am conveying what I have been told by the individual; so in essence it is hearsay and conjecture and speculation that what is being told to me is 100% accurate.

Not that I am refusing nor contesting your assertions, I gave no indication on which state this person lives in. Each state has its own bar in which it applies the assistance it doles out. I also do not know if she is lying, not claiming the children on taxes, not claiming the income (could very well be under the table), etc.

So again, I apologize if not all facts are there and verifiable, it is a personal story I have encountered with one person. People though, as you very well know can and will lie on welfare paper work. Not all and it would be, in my guess, a very small percentage.

I did stray from illustrating that "poverty" in America is not living in huts, drinking dirty water, using a hole in the ground for the bathroom, and eating weevil laden rice day in and day out. The main point was to show, via the article that the OP's article and assertions are relatively the norm. Extremely large flat screen TV, a gaming system, A/C, etc. Those are extras. Yet, most will complain that they cannot live without them. This is conditioned into their minds.

-----------------

To the other posters that claim people die without A/C, it has been addressed, but I will concur. You don't die because you didn't have A/C. There were other issues and complications with people that died in heat, but not caused by lack of cooling via and A/C system. Open windows, turn on fans....it is what frugal people do when they don't want to pay a $200+/month electricity bill.

Now someone reading this post from you, because it was well typed and seemed sincere, would think that woman is mooching off society. When actually, perhaps you misinterpret her situation, she doesn't qualify and doesn't receive anything or at most $20 per month of EBT.

So here you are making $40 per hour....and you're all in the purse of someone earning $13 per hour part time and receiving child support.

You wouldn't happen to be Rush Limbaugh would you?

HA! No, I am not as entertaining as Mr. Limbaugh. I was presenting a personal story based on, as I have stated above, information conveyed to me via this person. What I failed to explain is that this person I know, complains about having little money, little food and can't buy new clothes; yet has, just in the OP, a large flat screen TV with cable and internet, cell phone, two gaming systems and a brand new car with payments.

Life choices it seems are not allowed to be brought up here, but honestly, that above is the picture of today's poverty in the United States of America. A good chunk I believe, is self-inflicted.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


I remember those days too. Grams threw us outside and didn't expect us home until the streetlights came on. I remember sleeping on the porch on really sticky nights. Down here, the heat index can reach literally into the 120-130 degree range, so fans and open windows won't necessarily do the job. And like I said, child services will get involved now.

I have been hungry.
I have eaten from the trash others throw out.
I have been soaking wet from the heat and humidity with no relief in sight.
I have been sitting in the dark, doing my homework by the light from a kerosene lantern.
I have had to help my mom bring water from a creek across town.
I have been sick with no way to get to or pay for a doctor.
I have been homeless.

I am a child of the 1970's and 1980's. This is not a new problem. There is however a new kind of poor. The kind that had everything their heart wished for only to lose their security and have it taken away. If they worked hard and have their computers, ac and laptops, don't grudge them those comforts. Just remember before getting angry at the occasional "welfare queen", that there are A LOT of people who would love to flip burgers or dig ditches if only they could find someone to hire them. Not all of them are lazy and sucking on the welfare teat.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Or, maybe it isn't the best piece in the thread? Maybe it is just excuses from a helpless, victim's mentality? Maybe it is just the ranting of someone expecting everyone else to step in and fix their problems for them?

This is the internet. I can't solve the world's problems from here. But I have easy, common sense solutions to every excuse in that post that you loved. I have personal experience overcoming each and every excuse there. People have choices.

People can choose to be victims, or choose to be survivors. People can choose to alienate others, or they can choose to pitch in and help. When someone finds themself completely destitute, then it is time for reflection. How did that person treat others during the good times? Where is their network of good deeds? If there is none, then they are reaping the rewards of their life's choices! If they don't like what they are getting, then it is time for a paradigm shift! It is time to do things differently.

Sorry, but I only see excuses.

reply to post by haarvik


I'm 205 dollars over on our income to receive food stamps..yet I drive a volvo..so what?

My volvo is like 16 years old and has almost 500K miles on it... I bought it used..paid cash we saved up.
We needed a station wagon..and other than volvo it's really hard to find a good, cheap sw..Subaru's were too high and it's almost impossible to find one used around here..

Just because you drive a "name" car doesn't mean jack squat..

People in the west have generally had it pretty well compared to the majority of the rest of the world. The fact we have shelter and running water and electricity puts us well above billions of human beings around the world. However, it's probably not best to compare ourselves with third world nations. It's a question of relative poverty that we are discussing here. We can always pursue a race to the bottom and not recognize Americas poor until they have the same poverty as those in the third world, but in my opinion it's better that we look at poverty in relation to the the society it exists.

Relative poverty measurements can sometimes produce odd results, especially in small populations. For example, if the median household in a wealthy neighborhood earns US$1 million each year, then a family that earns US$100,000 would be considered poor on the relative poverty scale, even though such a family could meet all of its basic needs and much more. At the other end of the scale, if the median household in a very poor neighborhood earned only 50% of what it needs to buy food, then a person who earned the median income would not be considered poor on a relative poverty scale, even though the person is clearly poor on an absolute poverty scale.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by tncryptogal


I would agree with you. I have friends who are hard working and yet poor. I also watch them buy $6 packs of cigarettes and $12 cases of beer every other night. I don't empathize with them because they are their own enemy. Yes it is nice to have a big TV and the fastest internet and the newest cell phone. But to have them and then complain that you can't afford anything is your fault, not Bill Gates' fault. Something our generation will never have in common with the depression era is they "lived within their means". They sacrificed during the hard times so they could have rewards when things got better.

How many of you shop thrift stores, or go to yard sales or use craigslist to find things you need? There is a difference between having new nice things and having used nice things. I refuse to pay $40 for a pair of pants. I will go to a yard sale and get nearly new for 50 cents. I couldn't tell you the last time I bought a new shirt, shorts or pants. Why should I when there are perfectly good ones for pennies on the dollar? If you saw me in public you would not know. I have all the name brands. I pay cash for my cars, I don't finance. They may not be new, but they are reliable and get me from point A to point B. We are so caught up in materialism that we forget how to live and to live within our means.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
These are the folks who receive tax payer subsidies, what the left calls a "safety net".



Its about time we had an honest discussion about what the objectives of our social policy are really all about because the current one, the one we have employeed since the Great Society in the 60s has been plain old socialism. The debate today is all about how far we want to extend it.

Billions upon billions of dollars are fueling corporate welfare
Check it

So, its socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor...corporatism at its finest in this thread, yay.

Capitalism, corporate style: Privatize the profit, socialize the losses. I don't give a rats bum about someone getting food stamps while having a color television at home, I do however care about a oil tycoon getting a 30 billion dollar kickback from the government for...being rich.

Clean house on the tops already well established socialism, and then we can try to take away some $15k a year's occasional video game purchase...but frankly, the corporate socialism is far, far more destructive to our society.

I have a similar philosophy as you Getready...each case is individually handled and I try not to lump each experience in with the last.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
**I will NEVER refuse food to someone that asks. It doesn't matter where I am, or what I am doing. The problem is, people often ask me for food, and when I offer to go inside and get them whatever they want, they change their story and they really need gas, so when I offer to go buy them a gas can and fill it up, what they really meant to say was they need CASH!

I concur, as I have had similar experiences and of course, there are those that truly need food that gladly accept. When I have the extra means to help out someone looking for a bite to eat, or some gas to get to a new city, or some diapers I will gladly purchase it for them. I do however refuse to just hand out cash.

**I will NEVER refuse work to someone. I have a big yard, I have friends with construction companies, I have a little extra cash, I will gladly put someone to work if they ask. I will loan them my gloves, and some tools if they need it. I will put them up in a room for their first night or two to get them started. Guess how many "homeless" have ever taken me up on those offers? "Will WORK for food" my arse!

Interesting you bring this up. In my teens, I used to work part time with my friend and his dad doing pool service. On one occasion, we were pulling off the highway and a man with a "Will work for food" sign was standing there. My friend's dad pulled up and said he had a heavy load this week and could use the extra hand. Even told the man if he did a good job, that the offer would extend to employment. The man looked blankly at my friend's dad and flat out told him "I don't want work, I want money."

If this typical? I would say it happens more often than people think.

**As a matter of fact, I won't even refuse BEER to someone. If I see a sign that says, NEED BEER, or Will Work for Beer, I'll happily oblige.

Agreed! Sometimes a simple pleasure, such a cold beer on a hot day will brighten someone's outlook. The problem is, many have resigned themselves to living out their lives in such condition without looking to find a way back out of that situation. Some have mental disabilities, some have drug problems, and some just gave up.

What I won't oblige is being lied to, being taken for a fool, or being harassed by some loser.

You will get singled out for using "loser" but really, if you are getting lied to while extending a helping hand freely and willfully, they are in fact losers.

Sorry, but for all of you bleeding hearts reading these accounts on the internet. I dare you to go and try to help. Your opinions will quickly change. And yet, I still make it my mission to treat every single case uniquely, and I always offer food, I always listen to the heartfelt story (once), and I always offer work and shelter.

As silly as it may seem, but the scene from Family Guy (in which Brian and Quagmire are eating dinner) where Quagmire goes off on Brian is ever so true. There are those that talk and say they care and bleed for the poor. Then there are those that do it quietly, without seeking recognition, without looking for a pat on the back and sweat for those in need.

It is always assumed because those that do give up their time and effort don't announce to the world they are doing so, aren't really doing it. To the contrary, those that cry loudest and complain the most are the ones not doing a damn thing except complaining.

Excellent post Getreadyalready.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by tncryptogal

 

I would agree with you. I have friends who are hard working and yet poor. I also watch them buy $6 packs of cigarettes and $12 cases of beer every other night. I don't empathize with them because they are their own enemy. Yes it is nice to have a big TV and the fastest internet and the newest cell phone. But to have them and then complain that you can't afford anything is your fault, not Bill Gates' fault. Something our generation will never have in common with the depression era is they "lived within their means". They sacrificed during the hard times so they could have rewards when things got better.

How many of you shop thrift stores, or go to yard sales or use craigslist to find things you need? There is a difference between having new nice things and having used nice things. I refuse to pay $40 for a pair of pants. I will go to a yard sale and get nearly new for 50 cents. I couldn't tell you the last time I bought a new shirt, shorts or pants. Why should I when there are perfectly good ones for pennies on the dollar? If you saw me in public you would not know. I have all the name brands. I pay cash for my cars, I don't finance. They may not be new, but they are reliable and get me from point A to point B. We are so caught up in materialism that we forget how to live and to live within our means.

I haven't paid full price for clothes or cars since the mid 1990's. Maybe a new kind of austerity will arise from this. Not one where you're sacrificing comforts but not wallowing in materialism. Like I said it's priorities and where their priorities lie. $17 for beer and cigs every other night. That's crazy. My husband rolls his own cigarettes now because he sat down with a calculator and almost choked when he saw how much money he was spending on cigarette packs in a month, almost cried when he saw a year's worth. Now we spend about 1/10 of what we used to. If it ever came down to his habit or the family, he'd quit.

I come from a family of 3. Growing up, my mother raised my sister and I (1 year apart), on less than $11,000 a year.

We lived in Section 8 Income Based WI Public Housing. Rent was 33% of income, so we paid about $290. Electric wasn't included.

We had cable, and two TV's. Always basic cable, and our two TV's were older than dirt.

My mother had a cheap tracphone in case of emergencies.

We had a really old wall air conditioner that could keep the temperature to a tolerable 80 degrees when it was 100 outside.

I had a Nintendo 64. Mind you, years after it came out.

We got my first computer and internet when my mother was in a car accident and broke her neck (she was in the hospital for 9 months, and has never been the same since). Her settlement of $30,000 had to be spent within 1 month, or they would drop her social security.

We were driving a '91 Ford Taurus in 2002, and she got a brand new Kia (with settlement money) (her first new car and her first car purchased within 7 years of the original date of manufacturer), since she wanted a good warranty should something go wrong.

We had a washer and dryer, but it was coin-operated, and never really washed your clothing well. It was horrible.

We had a cordless telephone after everyone else did, but this isn't exactly much more expensive than a corded phone.

Just because people in Africa don't have any of these things, didn't make it less difficult to grow up the way I did.

I would never wish my upbringing on anyone, even my worst enemy. Don't read this article and think you know anything more than these basic statistics, because these are JUST numbers.

The situations are much more real. The poor DO NOT live the high life this article makes you believe.

Please don't go around saying "I read this article that said....blah blah blah". This article is ridiculous.

_______________________________________________________

Both my sister and I have broke the cycle of poverty in our family, and I enjoy a comfortable salary, as does my sister.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


I really don't mean to appear to come down on you personally, merely on people who sometimes display the attitude that was displayed in your piece. When they do not have all the information. I compare it to the "grass is greener" parable we used to hear about.

reply to post by dolphinfan


I'm not surprised at. It's why I rarely complain about being on the poorer side of things because despite not being wealthy my quality of life is still phenomenally better than a "rich" man living at the turn of the 20th century.

Sure there are people who are actually destitute, without homes living in shanty towns but the average poor person is far from that bad off.