Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

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posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by NadaCambia
 

reply to post by apacheman
 



OK, to go back to an early argument from many many pages ago. I went to the grocery store last night. I spent $204.33. (I planned to scan in the receipt, but that went terribly wrong, and it isn't very readable now.) Anyhow, I got more than a months worth of food for a family of 4. I will list the major purchases here. I didn't go looking for coupons, I didn't spend much time looking for specific sales, I didn't make any special effort other than shopping smart. In reality, I probably could have gotten twice this much food if I had taken the time to check for coupons, sales, dents and dings, etc.

So, here is how $200 can buy a months worth of food for a family of 4.

First Off, my wife must eat a Gluten Free diet. So, we have to shop in a way that supports her needs, and it usually results in paying a little extra for certain things.

Secondly, I bought a few things like Paper Towels to make the wife happy. I would prefer using rags and washing them, but harmony in the home comes first.
So, I spent $12 on a huge case of papertowels. I spent another $14 on a huge case of toilet paper, and I bought some good stuff, not the cheapest.

Third, I also bought some produce, apples, oranges, bananas. I didn't just get all rice and beans or anything. This was a normal shopping trip.

Fourth, even though I rail against processed foods and frozen dinners, because they are unhealthy, and they are more expensive, I still bought a couple of things like that, because occasionally it works for simplicities sake, or as a time saver, or as a treat to make the kids eat.

So, here is the list:

24 cans Pork and Beans
12 cans Hormel Chili w/beans (Gluten Free)
24 cans Tuna
5 lbs Jasmine Rice (Gluten Free)
16 boxes Macaroni and Cheese
12 Crushcups Yogurt
12 Danimals Yogurt Drinks
1 Box Ritz Cracker/Pretzel combos
12 Large Cans Spaghettios
12 Small Cans Ravioli
1--2 lb Bag Frozen Chicken Tenders
2 Gallons Milk
1 Carton of Almond Milk
2 Loaves of Bread
2 Cartons Cottage Cheese (Gluten Free)
3 Giant Bags WalMart brand Cereal
3 Boxes of Chex Cereal (Gluten Free)
1 Giant Case of PopTarts
6 Assorted 1 lb bags of Beans or Bean Mixes (Gluten Free)
4--1 lb packets of All Beef Hot Dogs (onsale for $1)
2--1 lb bags of Shredded Sharp Cheddar Cheese
6 Fancy Red Apples
6 Large Florida Oranges
6 Large Bananas
1--2 Liter Coke (another wife request)
1 Box of Sleepytime Hot Tea
1 Bottle of Dishwasher Detergent.
2 Jars Peanut Butter
2 Jars Grape Jelly
18 Pack of Whole Eggs
10 lb Bag Sugar

So there is the list. Surely anybody can feed a family of 4 with at least a small breakfast and a decent lunch and dinner for 30 days off that list. Now, as I said. This wasn't any particular special list. This is exactly how I shop for my family about once per month or so.

We will end up going to the store once or twice per week to get more Bread, Eggs, and Milk. We will probably have people come over and barbeque a couple of weekends, but they will bring chips and drinks, and probably a big box of hotdogs and/or burgers from Sams Club.

All in all, my family spends closer to $400 on groceries during most months. Usually we spend the one big chunk of $200 to $250, but then we will spend another $30 to $50 each week on little extras. That is our prerogative, it is not a necessity.

BUT, someone said earlier that it was impossible to feed a family on $200 per month, and I think this conclusively proves that it is not impossible.

In fact, with only a little bit more effort on my part, I could have found some great coupons, found some sales, bought some of these things at the Dollar Store, or Costco, or Sam's Club, and I probably could have gotten even more food for under $200! I didn't get any Steaks or Chicken this go around (because I still have some from the last go around), but there is plenty of protein there in the form of Tuna, Hot Dogs, and Beans.
edit on 25-7-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-7-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-7-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


acording to that list, im poor. the way i look at is if you are happy then who gives a flying donkey crack what you have. apparently im "poor" and im happy. im just saying i dont believe that just because u dont have all the money in the world doesnt mean that your poor. after all money is the root of all evil.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by drok6661
 


Finally! Someone who gets it! I often remark that I was much happier when I made $4hr back in 1986 than I am now. You will always live from paycheck to paycheck. You will always justify buying more when you make more. Like I said earlier, if people worried about number one instead of bitching about someone having more than them we would see more people rise above it all. It's a shame our schools do not teach proper financial responsibility. Maybe if they did we would not have all of the financial issues we have today.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by neo96
 


You're blind then, for it is only the poor and middle class who create wealth by making stuff, buying stuff, and using stuff.

The rich only create poverty.

Mostly they just take what they haven't earned from those too weak to prevent it.

The rich are the ones who run the government and decide governmental policies. It is their government, not ours.


How are they supposed to make and buy if the rich don't have a business to operate, so they can make and buy.

Your lost.



"The rich" are not in any way necessary for business to operate.



You clearly have never started and/or ran a business.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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I can't believe this thread has grown to 35 pages???
Poverty in the OP is a fallacy first of all, those people who they are including in this statistic are not impoverished (Oh they like to THINK they are...because they're mentally impoverished)...go out to take some statistics on homeless people and tent city people, and tell me they have a GD flatscreen and An Xbox. Please.
edit on 25-7-2011 by ldyserenity because: add & spelling



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
I can't believe this thread has grown to 35 pages???
Poverty in the OP is a fallacy first of all, those people who they are including in this statistic are not impoverished (Oh they like to THINK they are...because they're mentally impoverished)...go out to take some statistics on homeless people and tent city people, and tell me they have a GD flatscreen and An Xbox. Please.
edit on 25-7-2011 by ldyserenity because: add & spelling


Yep.
Again, Poor is a state of mind and maybe a social status.
Broke is a physical thing.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Jezus
"The rich" are not in any way necessary for business to operate.

You clearly have never started and/or ran a business.


Wrong twice.

But it's not your fault.

"The rich" have used lots of resources to brainwash people into believing they are necessary.

In reality "the rich" benefit from and depend on "the government" more than anyone else; by far.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by Jezus
 


Why don't you people get off the rich bandwagon. The rich are not the problem in this country. The problem in this country is the officials we elected to serve us, not themselves. We have allowed them to spend out of control for too long. Taxing the rich isn't going to put a dent into this deficit. Only spending cuts, deep cuts, will fix it. It is time for our government to run like an efficient business and stop acting like money is endless. Cut things like foreign aid, stop waging war around the world, start auditing our expenses and eliminate $200 toilet seats! It's time to get real and trim down so we can have lasting financial success, not just so some idiot can get re-elected!



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Jezus
"The rich" are not in any way necessary for business to operate.

You clearly have never started and/or ran a business.


Wrong twice.

But it's not your fault.

"The rich" have used lots of resources to brainwash people into believing they are necessary.

In reality "the rich" benefit from and depend on "the government" more than anyone else; by far.


Ok, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.
So what business did you start and run? How was it started and maintained?
What was your profit from the business?



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Jezus
 


Why don't you people get off the rich bandwagon. The rich are not the problem in this country. The problem in this country is the officials we elected to serve us, not themselves. We have allowed them to spend out of control for too long. Taxing the rich isn't going to put a dent into this deficit. Only spending cuts, deep cuts, will fix it. It is time for our government to run like an efficient business and stop acting like money is endless. Cut things like foreign aid, stop waging war around the world, start auditing our expenses and eliminate $200 toilet seats! It's time to get real and trim down so we can have lasting financial success, not just so some idiot can get re-elected!


I agree "the rich" are not the problem.
I agree the government needs to stop wasting resources.
I agree elected officials serve themselves.

However, "the rich" still need to be taxed much more.

This is not punitive, it is simply a fundamental part of capitalism.

Right now "the rich" control an extreme percentage of our natural resources and human capital. This isn't inherently a problem as long as "the government" can protect the environment and prevent "the masses" from becoming an under class of slaves.

So right now it is a problem...



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by Jezus
 



Great!!

Awesome reply. S



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by macman
You clearly have never started and/or ran a business.


OK, here's what doesn't make sense to me. According to some people, rich people create jobs, according to those same people small businesses create jobs, and according to those same people they are NOT rich and taxes are killing their business.

So which is it? I guess we can have it both ways? Boehner, I'm waiting for a response!



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by haarvik
Finally! Someone who gets it! I often remark that I was much happier when I made $4hr back in 1986 than I am now. You will always live from paycheck to paycheck.


It's hard to actually quantify happiness, but according to studies I've seen the most content people in the US are ones that make around 40-70K a year, I'm not sure the exact number but it was around there. Over that amount and the percentage goes down.

Money does not equal happiness, and I think most people honestly don't want to be "rich", they just want a nice livable wage. If you have a job that you love, but doesn't pay that much, a lot of people probably will be fine with the trade off. The problem today is most jobs these days pay poorly and have no sort of job satisfaction attached to it, IMO.

And while money doesn't equal happiness, having a nice livable wage gives you more freedom in life.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 04:16 AM
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Poverty line in the EU is 1100€ per month 19100 USD per year, sad.

In spite of the overall wealth of the European Union (EU), poverty in the EU is still at a relatively high level. Nearly 1 in 7 people are at risk of poverty. The figures are even higher for some groups such as children and older people. However, the extent and seriousness of the problem is often not well understood either by policy makers or the general public. As a result sufficient urgency is not given to its eradication. Often this is because people only think of poverty as being something which is so extreme that it threatens people's very existence and they associate this mainly with developing countries. However, the reality is that poverty in the EU is a very real problem which brings misery to the lives of many people. This is a direct attack on people's fundamental rights, limits the opportunities they have to achieve their full potential, brings high costs to society and hampers sustainable economic growth. Poverty also reflects failures in the systems for redistributing resources and opportunities in a fair and equitable manner. These lead to deep-seated inequalities and thus to the contrast of excessive wealth concentrated in the hands of a few while others are forced to live restricted and marginalised lives, even though they are living in a rich economic area.
Source poverty site

Living in poverty can mean:

becoming isolated from family and friends;
lacking hope and feeling powerless and excluded with little control over the decisions that affect your day to day life;
lacking information about the supports and services available to you;
having problems in getting your basic needs met and accessing decent housing, health services and schools and life long learning opportunities;
living in an unsafe neighbourhood with high levels of crime and violence and poor environmental conditions or in a remote and isolated rural area;
going without very basic necessities because you may not be able to afford essential utilities like water, heat and electricity or to buy healthy food or new clothing or to use public transport;
being unable to afford to buy medicines or visit the dentist;
living from day to day with no savings or reserves for times of crisis such as losing a job or falling ill and thus falling into debt;
being exploited and forced into illegal situations;
experiencing racism and discrimination;
being unable to participate in normal social and recreational life such as going to the pub or cinema or sports events or visiting friends or buying birthday presents for family members.

Check out my house



edit on 27-7-2011 by sandwhale because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-7-2011 by sandwhale because: added a source



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by neo96
 


You're blind then, for it is only the poor and middle class who create wealth by making stuff, buying stuff, and using stuff.

The rich only create poverty.

Mostly they just take what they haven't earned from those too weak to prevent it.

The rich are the ones who run the government and decide governmental policies. It is their government, not ours.


How are they supposed to make and buy if the rich don't have a business to operate, so they can make and buy.

Your lost.



"The rich" are not in any way necessary for business to operate.



You clearly have never started and/or ran a business.



You have demonstrated several times that you do not even know how business expenses work.
That not only without a doubt proves that you never ran one yourself, it strongly indicates that you never payed taxes.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by origamiandurbanism

Originally posted by macman
You clearly have never started and/or ran a business.


OK, here's what doesn't make sense to me. According to some people, rich people create jobs, according to those same people small businesses create jobs, and according to those same people they are NOT rich and taxes are killing their business.

So which is it? I guess we can have it both ways? Boehner, I'm waiting for a response!


Not according to my experience.
By Obama terms and definition, I was within the rich classification several years ago. Started and operated a very successful business in the Auto Transport Field.
Now, having said that, when taxes increased, be it personal or business, my hiring and firing decision was affected. I was forced to do more with less people and equipment, because I had to pay more to Govt.

Easy.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by debunky

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by neo96
 


You're blind then, for it is only the poor and middle class who create wealth by making stuff, buying stuff, and using stuff.

The rich only create poverty.

Mostly they just take what they haven't earned from those too weak to prevent it.

The rich are the ones who run the government and decide governmental policies. It is their government, not ours.


How are they supposed to make and buy if the rich don't have a business to operate, so they can make and buy.

Your lost.



"The rich" are not in any way necessary for business to operate.



You clearly have never started and/or ran a business.



You have demonstrated several times that you do not even know how business expenses work.
That not only without a doubt proves that you never ran one yourself, it strongly indicates that you never payed taxes.


Really, and where is it that I have demonstrated this??
Yes, I do know how they work and know my way around and through expenses. Also had a good CPA for the business as well.

I love the fact that you think you magically pulled a rabbit out of your ass, and thus is proof you are a rabbit farmer.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Really, and where is it that I have demonstrated this??



Here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by macman

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH. Wrong

You have to pay the taxes on it either before investing, or after when you pull the money out to use.
The Govt will not go hungry when it comes to your money.


Now, of course if you take money out and *then* reinvest, then you pay taxes on it. But then you also have nobody but yourself to blame.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by debunky

Originally posted by macman

Really, and where is it that I have demonstrated this??



Here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by macman

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH. Wrong

You have to pay the taxes on it either before investing, or after when you pull the money out to use.
The Govt will not go hungry when it comes to your money.


Now, of course if you take money out and *then* reinvest, then you pay taxes on it. But then you also have nobody but yourself to blame.


For example, I own business AAA. The business profits $100k from a revenue of $250k a year. $150k being overhead and payroll to employees other then myself.
Now, I can either take $100k and pay myself, since I own and operate company AAA to make a living, or I can pay myself $40k, leaving $60k to either claim as a profit for the company, and get taxed or buy equipment.
So, now I have $60 worth of equipment, being now a business investment, and is not taxed. But wait, I will pay sales tax on that equipment, since it is not for resale. So, sales tax being say 8%, now that $60k equipment cost $64800. So, taxed on the front end.
Now, insurance goes up, because of that equipment, training for the equipment on usage and more then likely some Govt guidelines to abide by. So, more money spent.
When I go to sell the equipment, guess what, I get to claim that sale on taxes as company income. Taxed again.

So, on a personal level. I can take the income, after taxes and invest. The return is not taxed, unless invested in the stock market. Gee, thanks again Govt.
I can put money pre-taxed to an investment, then when the money is withdrawn, I get taxed not on the initial investment, but on the total. Thanks again.

You still show nothing, in any way that I do not have experience within the taxable money for business realm.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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While most of my posts do not support tax increases on the wealthy, it is because the very definition used is an income above $250k. That is not rich. $10M is rich, and yes tax the hell out of them.

As for greedy corporations, a perfect example of how they work is found in Robert Kearns. You can thank him for your delayed wipers on your car. He invented them in 1964. Ford expressed an interest in it, and even gave him the specs and everything. When it came time for Ford to pony up and start paying for the license to use it, they told him they were no longer interested. He later found his invention on the Ford Mustang, and took them to court. It took him until 1990 to win his case against Ford. They stole his invention, even though it was patented. They had no intention of licensing it when they asked for one to send to the Bureau of Highway Safety for approval. Their intention was to reverse engineer it so they could make it themselves.

There you have a shining example of how corporate America works. It is these "too big to fail" corporations and banks that rule our world, not just America. You want to spread the wealth? Then go after the right ones, not mom & pop businesses that employ 50% of Americans.





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