Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox

After discussing this and other things on the topic, I have come up with a new plan and a stance for running for public office.

First and foremost, our military will be brought back to our shores to defend our country.
Any and all foreign aide will cease immediately.
Any goods imported into our country will have a tariff imposed equal to that of the average price of an equivalent American made product.
The IRS is to be dismantled and any taxes owed forgiven. A national sales tax of 15% will be in effect immediately.
Social Security will be abolished. Retirement age will be set at 55, at which time you will receive $2M dollars. 50% must be put into an income bearing vehicle to assure long term financial stability.
Upon retirement, you may not work for a minimum of 5 years.
Healthcare reform will be repealed. Regulations will be imposed on those services deemed essential to all Americans. This will include, but not be limited to fuel, health/dental care, energy and housing.
Our military will secure our borders, and anyone located within our borders here illegally shall be deported.
All grants and subsidies will cease immediately.
All public universities will be reviewed for efficiency, and all US citizens may attend these educational centers free of charge.
Interest on loans, including credit cards, shall be capped at 15%.
Capitol gains on any and all investments will be set at 28%.
The FDA and USDA will no longer accept any funding from any interested party.
No government body or agency will employ any executive or prior decision making person from an industry with a valid interest in same.
Lobbying a political official will be considered a felony and punished as such.
No Supreme Court Justice may be affiliated with any political party.
Regional facilities shall be made available, free of charge, for any US citizen proven to have a mental or physical disability, and are incapable of unassisted living.
Anyone who applies for public assistance must work for community endeavors in order to receive benefits. Failure to do so will result in suspension of said benefits.

Now, do I have your vote?

reply to post by Janky Red


Because the fault lies with you and I. We let the officials do this. Whether it started with Carter, FDR or Obama is irrelevant. The plain truth and bottom line is we gave them the power, we let them do it. We sat back and became complacent while they destroyed our country. And we still sit back and let them continue. Until you break the cycle and actually change the power in DC it will always serve the rich and powerful. This whole thread should not exist IF we had done our job as a US citizen and voted for those who DID have our best interests at heart!

I just have to throw one more comment out before I leave this thread. I do believe this topic is important, but the premise of this entire topic gets skewed when one looks at the events that have played out to create our current working and non-working poor in America. It is really easy to pic out one topic in an article and try to ram it home as the reason TO ACT NOW. MSM, and the government do that all the time to us in order to get us to act the way they would like us to.

However,When considering all of the facts, in the absence of all things propaganda, there really is only a few solutions.

1.We must either take care of our poor and old, 2. reverse all of the legislation and changes to the constitution that led us to this point (including the Federal Reserve Act- too many to name really), or 3. decide to be very evil, evil beings. ( no longer humanity, but something more beastlike)

FACTS:

1. Inflation is a tax
2. 96% of your income is removed by this inflation tax before you or anyone else sees it. (meaning people forget that it is a tax.)
3. In the absence of FAIR trade vs. FREE trade wages flat-lined.
4. With wages not rising for the bottom 60-70% of wage earners, inflation now plays an even larger role in the quality of life of every American.
5. At the onset of the federal reserve, they actually did a great job reducing the actual loss of buying power (inflation vs. wages)
6. Policy changes in the last 30-40 years are responsible for turning a fairly reasonable (real) inflation to what we have today.
7. Those policy changes were enacted through corporate lobbyists, and others wishing to consolidate power.
8. The current working poor, and unemployed are almost entirely caused by policy changes to working programs.
9. Entitlement programs were installed as a measure to stem the tide of corporate profit taking until other countries followed in America's footsteps, ultimately allowing all the jobs we lost to resurface and return once our plans for democracy were spread to other countries, creating a global marketplace that was competitive and fair, rather than completely unfair.
10. It didn't work.
11. Rather than reverse the policies, new problems were designed in order to take these steps even further. ( its like watching a guy jump off a bridge and saying to yourself, "hey, he jumped off wrong, let me try, I will do it right."
12. All the bad decisions snowball until you are forced to make an immoral, evil decision, but then spend the next year coming up with PR campaigns to make it look like you made the right decisions. ( current debt talks)
13. The initial plan is actually very JUST, and FAIR. Expanding democracy to other countries, was a good idea, if we want a fair market. In the absence of a fair market we have what we have today. Manufacturing industry being rebuilt and scrapped out moving from country to country wherever cheap labor can be exploited. 50 years seems like a long time, but in the history of the world, what we really are doing will be seen from the future as wasteful and just plain retarded. Doesn't matter who writes the history, the winners or the losers, it will look ridiculous.
14. No corporation is with more than one human life. No government is worth more than one human life. No group of people is worth more than one human life.
15. Money doesn't mean anything. at all. It is no longer a measure of your contribution to society, and it only briefly was. It should be abolished, and something else brought in.
16. Your contribution to society should not read " I helped America kill millions of fellow human beings over religious and political differences, so that mega-corporations could exploit the working class and resources."
17. People and governments use "enemies" real or fabricated to create the perception of a need for action.
18. This thus changes the definition of the word enemy, as using their definition makes our own government the "enemy" Making all Americans "terrorists".
19. Incomes are increasing exponentially for the top 20% of income earners in the US.
20. YOU are not in the top 20%.
21. This means something very evil and immoral is happening right in front of your face.
22. This makes you really dumb if you support it.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by 0zzymand0s

 

Exactly, two parties. You do have a choice. There are other candidates besides the two. You can choose an unknown. Chances are they are more likely to represent main street American than the well known one.

Do any of you think that the election process is'nt rigged? When we switched to E-voting machines we lost any chance for voting in a candidate democratically! Even if we were allowed a real choice, what chance can any elected official have against the ruling elitist? They have removed candidates, presidents, senators and congressman before. So much so that now all they have to do is threaten to get their way and if these Elitist are not removed, democracy will be lost. Does anyone really feel that the politicians that represent their states
accurately represent the majorities ideals? So if these men are not representing our ideologies then why do we even need representitives any more. Could'nt we represent ourselves right now with the internet, after all representation was born in a time without such technology as we have today! The internet could be our conduit for voting on issues! issues like tax rates, entitelments, Imperialism, government size, defense budgets and other issues that matter most to our freedoms! We can decide which of these are the most important. people can vote on which issues, then those with ideas can post them and people can vote on them like a primary, the top several ideas can be voted on by the masses. Politicians can still decide on idividual laws but only laws that don't infringe on others rights! I realize that this would take hours of time from all Americans but is there any other way to reflect the opinions of our nation? Is'nt deciding the shape of our nation the responsibility of any democratic society? Is there any other way to have a true democracy? Even if only 50 or 60 percent of us were to vote it would still represent the opinion of the majority! I realize this is a very radical option but with what's happening today maybe we are in need of something radical for us to have change for the better!

Originally posted by no time
I just have to throw one more comment out before I leave this thread. I do believe this topic is important, but the premise of this entire topic gets skewed when one looks at the events that have played out to create our current working and non-working poor in America. It is really easy to pic out one topic in an article and try to ram it home as the reason TO ACT NOW. MSM, and the government do that all the time to us in order to get us to act the way they would like us to.

However,When considering all of the facts, in the absence of all things propaganda, there really is only a few solutions.

1.We must either take care of our poor and old, 2. reverse all of the legislation and changes to the constitution that led us to this point (including the Federal Reserve Act- too many to name really), or 3. decide to be very evil, evil beings. ( no longer humanity, but something more beastlike)

FACTS:

1. Inflation is a tax
2. 96% of your income is removed by this inflation tax before you or anyone else sees it. (meaning people forget that it is a tax.)
3. In the absence of FAIR trade vs. FREE trade wages flat-lined.
4. With wages not rising for the bottom 60-70% of wage earners, inflation now plays an even larger role in the quality of life of every American.
5. At the onset of the federal reserve, they actually did a great job reducing the actual loss of buying power (inflation vs. wages)
6. Policy changes in the last 30-40 years are responsible for turning a fairly reasonable (real) inflation to what we have today.
7. Those policy changes were enacted through corporate lobbyists, and others wishing to consolidate power.
8. The current working poor, and unemployed are almost entirely caused by policy changes to working programs.
9. Entitlement programs were installed as a measure to stem the tide of corporate profit taking until other countries followed in America's footsteps, ultimately allowing all the jobs we lost to resurface and return once our plans for democracy were spread to other countries, creating a global marketplace that was competitive and fair, rather than completely unfair.
10. It didn't work.
11. Rather than reverse the policies, new problems were designed in order to take these steps even further. ( its like watching a guy jump off a bridge and saying to yourself, "hey, he jumped off wrong, let me try, I will do it right."
12. All the bad decisions snowball until you are forced to make an immoral, evil decision, but then spend the next year coming up with PR campaigns to make it look like you made the right decisions. ( current debt talks)
13. The initial plan is actually very JUST, and FAIR. Expanding democracy to other countries, was a good idea, if we want a fair market. In the absence of a fair market we have what we have today. Manufacturing industry being rebuilt and scrapped out moving from country to country wherever cheap labor can be exploited. 50 years seems like a long time, but in the history of the world, what we really are doing will be seen from the future as wasteful and just plain retarded. Doesn't matter who writes the history, the winners or the losers, it will look ridiculous.
14. No corporation is with more than one human life. No government is worth more than one human life. No group of people is worth more than one human life.
15. Money doesn't mean anything. at all. It is no longer a measure of your contribution to society, and it only briefly was. It should be abolished, and something else brought in.
16. Your contribution to society should not read " I helped America kill millions of fellow human beings over religious and political differences, so that mega-corporations could exploit the working class and resources."
17. People and governments use "enemies" real or fabricated to create the perception of a need for action.
18. This thus changes the definition of the word enemy, as using their definition makes our own government the "enemy" Making all Americans "terrorists".
19. Incomes are increasing exponentially for the top 20% of income earners in the US.
20. YOU are not in the top 20%.
21. This means something very evil and immoral is happening right in front of your face.
22. This makes you really dumb if you support it.

thankyou NoTime. Awesome post! I could'nt have said it better myself! It seems that we are allways led down
the opposite road at full speed to get opinions to change! They will give free Health care to illegals, show the poor
people as the enemies because they make loans they can't pay and have AC, TV, shelter, food, etc. Damn those
poor people have such a good life! This thread makes it like the poor have it so grand, as we should all strive to be just like them and be pennyless. It seems like the same old stigma over and over. As if they choose not to work, to live in a filthy roach infested high crime areas! Some of the people on here forget what this country has become. There is now only 1 job for every 6 people and if you are lucky enough to get one of these glorious jobs
you will be able to work at minimum wage for minimal hours with no health care. I don't understand why these
people allways blame the unfortunate and defend the affluent. I'm sure any of these poor people would switch lives with these persecutors, but no matter what any of us selfless people say or do, these persons opinions allways remain unwavered. I think these persons know that life is unfair because that is how they want it. These are truely selfish times we live in and i believe we have been brainwashed to think that way!

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by neo96

 

You're blind then, for it is only the poor and middle class who create wealth by making stuff, buying stuff, and using stuff.

The rich only create poverty.

Mostly they just take what they haven't earned from those too weak to prevent it.

The rich are the ones who run the government and decide governmental policies. It is their government, not ours.

How are they supposed to make and buy if the rich don't have a business to operate, so they can make and buy.

Your lost.

"The rich" are not in any way necessary for business to operate.

Originally posted by haarvik
After discussing this and other things on the topic, I have come up with a new plan and a stance for running for public office.

I read your post and your understanding of issues is lacking, so you probably won't get into any kind of office.

First and foremost, our military will be brought back to our shores to defend our country.

Defense of our country does include the defense of its economic interests that are truly global. It's the dominance on high seas and the best blue water fleet in the world that made America the colossus that it is.

Any and all foreign aide will cease immediately.

Don't see much sense in that, but hell let other countries think what they may, so ok there.

Any goods imported into our country will have a tariff imposed equal to that of the average price of an equivalent American made product.

Does that include oil So you are lobbying for Texas, I assume. Also, I doubt we in the States can really master the manufacture of straw mats and such. Plus, our farmers will go bankrupt (our exports such as corn will be taxed in retaliation).

The IRS is to be dismantled and any taxes owed forgiven. A national sales tax of 15% will be in effect immediately.

We already pay 8.5% sales tax in NY. It doesn't have the dramatic effect you seem to be implying.

Social Security will be abolished.

Great. I own a house (for which I made a generous down payment, as a responsible person, by the way) and have two kids, if I lose my job and am looking for one for 3 months, what will happen to my family?

Retirement age will be set at 55, at which time you will receive $2M dollars. 50% must be put into an income bearing vehicle to assure long term financial stability.

Bonds? Hmm... It's not stable any more.

Healthcare reform will be repealed. Regulations will be imposed on those services deemed essential to all Americans. This will include, but not be limited to fuel, health/dental care, energy and housing.

This seems a weird combination of conservatism and fascism, all in one bottle. Housing managed by a government decree? Yeah right. However, you oppose universal health care which is humane and works in most developed countries in Europe. Strange.

All grants and subsidies will cease immediately.

Like research grants to Universities? Welcome to a new stone age.

All public universities will be reviewed for efficiency, and all US citizens may attend these educational centers free of charge.

I'm for free education, but your tax scheme ain't gonna pay for that.

Capitol gains on any and all investments will be set at 28%.

Capitol Hill is a location in Washington, DC. I'm not sure what gains you are talking about.

Regional facilities shall be made available, free of charge, for any US citizen proven to have a mental or physical disability, and are incapable of unassisted living.

What "facilities"?

Now, do I have your vote?

Not by a long shot. Too much naivete and too little substance.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Heritage Foundation?
Here is your Heritage Foundation - which is supported by the Banksters who got most of the Tarp Funds.

Heritage Foundation Sponsors Stock Scam
thinkprogress.org...

IPC Statement on Heritage Foundation Voter Fraud Report
www.immigrationpolicy.org...

Heritage Foundation Loves the Free Trade Agreements that have robbed the US of manufacturing:
www.insideronline.org...
The Panama Free Trade agreement, like trade agreements with Colombia and South Korea, remains unapproved by Congress. That’s too bad, reports Heritage fellow James Roberts, because approving the agreement would mean new opportunities for U.S. companies and workers..

What is amazing is that the Heritage Foundation constantly posts 'anti-TARP' articles for the Public - while being handed massive grants and foundation money from the banks which benefited the most.

I guess they mean - Welfare for US - but you need to go starve in the street so we know you are poor.

the Heritage Foundation is part of the Tavistock Institute network, directed by British Intelligence. Because of the intensive artillery barrages of World War I, many soldiers were permanently impaired by shell shock. In 1921, the Marquees of Tavistock, 11th Duke of Bedford, gave a building to a group which planned to conduct rehabilitation programs for shell shocked British soldiers.

The group took the name of "Tavistock Institute" after its benefactor. The General Staff of the British Army decided it was crucial that they determine the breaking point of the soldier under combat conditions. The Tavistock Institute was taken over by Sir John Rawlings Reese, head of the British Army Psychological Warfare Bureau. A cadre of highly trained specialists in psychological warfare was built up in total secrecy. In fifty years, the name "Tavistock Institute’ appears only twice in the Index of the New York Times, yet this group, according to LaRouche and other authorities, organized and trained the entire staffs of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the Strategic Bombing Survey, Supreme Headquarters of the Allied Expeditionary Forces, and other key American military groups during World War II. During World War II, the Tavistock Institute combined with the medical sciences division of the Rockefeller Foundation for esoteric experiments with mind-altering drugs.

The present drug culture of the United States is traced in its entirety to this Institute, which supervised the Central Intelligence Agency’s training programs. The "'___' counter culture" originated when Sandoz A.G., a Swiss pharmaceutical house owned by S.G. Warburg & Co., developed a new drug from lysergic acid, called '___'. James Paul Warburg (son of Paul Warburg who had written the Federal Reserve Act in 1910), financed a subsidiary of the Tavistock Institute in the United States called the Institute for Policy Studies, whose director, Marcus Raskin, was appointed to the National Security Council.

James Paul Warburg set up a CIA program to experiment with '___' on CIA agents, some of whom later committed suicide. This program, MK-Ultra, supervised by Dr. Gottlieb, resulted in huge lawsuits against the United States Government by the families of the victims. The English Tavistock Institute has not restricted its activities to left-wing groups, but has also directed the programs of such supposedly "conservative" American think tanks as the Herbert Hoover Institute at Stanford University, Heritage Foundation, Wharton, Hudson, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Rand. The "sensitivity training" and "sexual encounter" programs of the most radical California groups such as Esalen Institute and its many imitators were all developed and implemented by Tavistock Institute psychologists.

And they are still screwing with peoples heads.

Originally posted by haarvik
After discussing this and other things on the topic, I have come up with a new plan and a stance for running for public office.

First and foremost, our military will be brought back to our shores to defend our country.
Any and all foreign aide will cease immediately.
Any goods imported into our country will have a tariff imposed equal to that of the average price of an equivalent American made product.
The IRS is to be dismantled and any taxes owed forgiven. A national sales tax of 15% will be in effect immediately.
Social Security will be abolished. Retirement age will be set at 55, at which time you will receive $2M dollars. 50% must be put into an income bearing vehicle to assure long term financial stability.
Upon retirement, you may not work for a minimum of 5 years.
Healthcare reform will be repealed. Regulations will be imposed on those services deemed essential to all Americans. This will include, but not be limited to fuel, health/dental care, energy and housing.
Our military will secure our borders, and anyone located within our borders here illegally shall be deported.
All grants and subsidies will cease immediately.
All public universities will be reviewed for efficiency, and all US citizens may attend these educational centers free of charge.
Interest on loans, including credit cards, shall be capped at 15%.
Capitol gains on any and all investments will be set at 28%.
The FDA and USDA will no longer accept any funding from any interested party.
No government body or agency will employ any executive or prior decision making person from an industry with a valid interest in same.
Lobbying a political official will be considered a felony and punished as such.
No Supreme Court Justice may be affiliated with any political party.
Regional facilities shall be made available, free of charge, for any US citizen proven to have a mental or physical disability, and are incapable of unassisted living.
Anyone who applies for public assistance must work for community endeavors in order to receive benefits. Failure to do so will result in suspension of said benefits.

Now, do I have your vote?

Sure i'de vote a monkey in if i thought it would do any good but right now there are 50 million people on SSI and if they were to recieve 2 million dollars each
that would come out to over 100 trillion dollars just for those people on SSI right now. If you abolish it though, do these people continue to recieve benefits?
Though i think the rest of your ideas are grand but need a bit of tweeking. I especially like the "Any goods imported into our country will have a tariff imposed equal to that of the average price of an equivalent American made product." but Did'nt We allready have tarrifs and were'nt they repealed or reduced? Also you did'nt mention anything about the reserve banks? Another thing would there be any tarrifs on commodities, food and medical supplies?
I looked up the figures and did some calculations for this and 15% sales tax wont bring in enough money to fund all these changes and does'nt the counties and cities use those monies to pay for things at their 8 percent sales tax at least for NYC? Found the figures on Fairtax.org if anyone wants to check it out. also you would need to raise sales taxes to 25% just to cover what we spend now. I wish that we could impliment all these changes but it seems to increase our deficeit way too much. Though some of these ideas are great another problem would be getting our representitives to use them!
I believe to solve the debt, jobless, poverty, ecology, edjucation, foreign policy and the rest of the worlds problems
we need to sacrifice greatly, think radically, change our economic system to have a sustainable economy without any waste, have one standard of living and centralized agriculture, manufacturing and housing. this means giving up much but without sacrifice there can be no sustainability. People's answer to sustainability is allways "science will save us" but this is a foolish misconception. people believe money is what makes the world go around but money is just paper growing in trees LOL. the real power in our world is energy from fossil fuels which is finite and now that all the cheap energy is gone the elites have engineered this depression. You have to understand they feel it's better for them to control our consumption rather then supply and demand to, cause if people realize that our supplies of energy are about to come to an end then our system would have to immediately
change to a conservative system like i described. The affluent would have to give up their wasteful energy consuming extravagance as would everyone else! We can keep living today like there's no tomorrow or we can conserve and switch to an economy based on the necessities to sustain us! Though even doing this our children
will still live difficult lives unless science does find an answer but i would not count on it!

reply to post by Jezus


You are totally lost my friend demand creates businesses not wealth. You must be thinking of opening a chain store or something. There are plenty of people with businesses who are not rich and wealthy. was the guy who made facebook rich? If only rich people could start businesses then there would'nt be any self made millionaires. Though today between the regulatory government and conglomerate monopolies it's become very hard to have a successful business, though there was a time when many a man built a company from the ground up! Oh well those days are over and it has become time to change yet again!

Here is the answer I have been giving to this for years now.

The total TARP welfare-for-banks payout was large enough that a check for 200,000.00 could have gone out to every citizen in the United States over the age of 18. Yes, two hundred thousand dollars.

The economy would have been rocking within 3 months. People would have paid off debts, credit cards, mortgages, car loans, started small businesses, paid off college loans, put kids in college, paid for health needs, bought homes, cars and appliances etc etc.

The banks would have hated this though because it would have robbed them on the billions in interest they have been sucking up from the consumer. See, that's the problem. The less able people are to completely pay off bank loans the longer the banks can collect interest on the loan. So if you ever wonder if there is a conspiracy to keep people grindingly poor in the U.S. - yes there is - and that is the reason.

Originally posted by Jezus
"The rich" are not in any way necessary for business to operate.

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom
You are totally lost my friend demand creates businesses not wealth.

I agree on both counts.

But hard work and physical labor create wealth.

Ideas and research of course too, but some one has to deal with the real physical variables while we destroy the environment that supplies them.

reply to post by Stratus9


The banks would have loved it. Their deposits would go off the charts because folks would put their money in the bank. Brokerage firms would love it because folks would take the money and buy stocks. Investment banks would love because the securities markets would be on fire. Private equity and venture capital firms would love it because folks would be starting new businesses, buying and selling businesses.

In about two years 80% of the folks would have blown all of their money and would be going into the bank looking for a loan. Before they did that, they would use their bank issued credit card and maxed that out at 18% interest, which the banks would love.

Finally, the bankers, being smart would know that the entire business was a bubble made by giving millions of folks money who have no idea what to do with it would short the market making a killing when the thing blew up.

Take all the money from the banks and give it out to folks. In five years who has all the money? The banks

Originally posted by dolphinfan
Take all the money from the banks and give it out to folks. In five years who has all the money? The banks

So the plan was just cut out the middle-man and give it directly to the banks...

reply to post by Jezus


Why not? The point is that the money ultimately winds up with the banks. It always will. The fed can print more, it can print less, the monetary policy is immaterial. The Banks will always have the money.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by dolphinfan
Take all the money from the banks and give it out to folks. In five years who has all the money? The banks

So the plan was just cut out the middle-man and give it directly to the banks...

Its the middle man and the middle class that dumps money into the economy by buying goods. That is the only thing that drives the economy up. Banks don't 'spend local'.. people spend local- when they have cash in hand, that is.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by Stratus9

 

The banks would have loved it. Their deposits would go off the charts because folks would put their money in the bank. Brokerage firms would love it because folks would take the money and buy stocks. Investment banks would love because the securities markets would be on fire. Private equity and venture capital firms would love it because folks would be starting new businesses, buying and selling businesses.

In about two years 80% of the folks would have blown all of their money and would be going into the bank looking for a loan. Before they did that, they would use their bank issued credit card and maxed that out at 18% interest, which the banks would love.

Finally, the bankers, being smart would know that the entire business was a bubble made by giving millions of folks money who have no idea what to do with it would short the market making a killing when the thing blew up.

Take all the money from the banks and give it out to folks. In five years who has all the money? The banks

If 80% of the folks would have blown all their money in two years - doing what? Spending it? What do you think drives the economy upward? And who in their right mind would not pay off all credit card debts?
If you have 200K why use a credit card? Total nonsense.

If people are starting small businesses- it will create more employment and raise consumer spending - thereby increasing the economy. If you have 200k to work with- why go to a venture capital firm?

Yes people would put their money in the bank- long enough to pay off the mortgage loan, car loan, credit card loan. Then they would have the cash they would otherwise hand to the banks in interest fees to spend on the economy.

Non- homeowners would purchase a house for cash. No mortgage loan at all. Or a car.
Who in their right mind would take out a mortgage on a 100k house and pay interest for 30 years when they could buy it for a cash deal- knocking up to 20% off the up front costs of purchase??

If the Economy is thriving because of the RIGHT reasons- ie: money flowing through the goods manufacturing, sales, job creation, purchasing, manufacturing cycle- why would it ''blow up''? There are NO bubbles in a natural economy where people have money to make and spend.

'Bubbles' are created by artificial manipulation of the Stock Market and the Banks.

Originally posted by Stratus9

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by Stratus9

 

The banks would have loved it. Their deposits would go off the charts because folks would put their money in the bank. Brokerage firms would love it because folks would take the money and buy stocks. Investment banks would love because the securities markets would be on fire. Private equity and venture capital firms would love it because folks would be starting new businesses, buying and selling businesses.

In about two years 80% of the folks would have blown all of their money and would be going into the bank looking for a loan. Before they did that, they would use their bank issued credit card and maxed that out at 18% interest, which the banks would love.

Finally, the bankers, being smart would know that the entire business was a bubble made by giving millions of folks money who have no idea what to do with it would short the market making a killing when the thing blew up.

Take all the money from the banks and give it out to folks. In five years who has all the money? The banks

You speculate that 80% of the folks would have blown all their money in two years - doing what? Spending it? Oh is that a bad thing? Think about this- really, it's not difficult.

What do you think drives the economy upward? Spending and job creation. And who in their right mind would not pay off all credit card debts? If you have 200K why use a credit card? Total nonsense.

If people are starting small businesses- it will create more employment, more durable goods and raise consumer spending - thereby increasing the economy. If you have 200k to work with- why go to a venture capital firm?

Yes people would put their money in the bank- long enough to pay off the mortgage loan, car loan, credit card loan. Then they would have the cash- long term- that they would have had to hand to the banks in interest fees to spend in the real economy.

Non- homeowners would purchase a house for cash. No mortgage loan at all. Or a car.
Who in their right mind would take out a mortgage on a 100k house and pay interest for 30 years when they could buy it for a cash deal- knocking up to 20% off the up-front costs of purchase??

If the Economy is thriving because of the RIGHT reasons- ie: money flowing through the goods manufacturing, sales, job creation, purchasing, manufacturing cycle- why would it ''blow up''? There are NO bubbles in a natural economy where people have money to make and spend.

'Bubbles' are created by artificial manipulation of the Stock Market and the Banks, NOT by real people with real money to spend.

You talk like a banker: "Oh don't give the little people money!! They are stupid and won't know what to do with it!" Give it to the wise and glorious bankers who know what to do with all that cash!!"

Originally posted by dolphinfan
Some interesting data about the "poor" in America. Depite the news reports of America's poor living in shanty towns and tent cities, the reality is far different.

"Data from the Department of Energy and other agencies show that the average poor family, as defined by Census officials:

● Lives in a home that is in good repair, not crowded, and equipped with air conditioning, clothes washer and dryer, and cable or satellite TV service.

● Prepares meals in a kitchen with a refrigerator, coffee maker and microwave as well as oven and stove.

● Enjoys two color TVs, a DVD player, VCR and — if children are there — an Xbox, PlayStation, or other video game system.

● Had enough money in the past year to meet essential needs, including adequate food and medical care."

www.heritage.org...

A few relevant statistics percentage of "poor" folks who have various items

65.1% have more than one TV
63%.7 have cable or satellite TV
54.5 have a cell phone
49.3 have a non-portable stereo
38% have a PC
29.3% have internet service
29.3% have a video gaming system

Lets not suggest that folks are not having difficulty maintaining their lifestyle during these economic hard times.

Lets stop with the nonsense that someone with two TVs, cable TV and video games is poor. These are the folks who receive tax payer subsidies, what the left calls a "safety net".

I doubt that most tax payers would consider satellite TVs and cell phones vital components of the social safety net. Most would consider food, medical care, clothes and housing a safety net.

Its time to call what the current debate is all about and that is about redistributionism and socialism. Is it any wonder that the minority of folks who pay the taxes in this country don't want to pay more?

Its about time we had an honest discussion about what the objectives of our social policy are really all about because the current one, the one we have employeed since the Great Society in the 60s has been plain old socialism. The debate today is all about how far we want to extend it.

edit on 19-7-2011 by dolphinfan because: (no reason given)

Okay, let's break this down a bit:

1. CONSUMER PRODUCTS: Consumer products are (or were, until hyperinflation began due to our "bailout" aid to the rich) very cheap. Thanks to Chinese manufacturing we are enjoying the least expensive consumer products ever. Even "poor" people manage to get their hands on used stuff and "gasp" earn money on occasion. The fact that poor people have consumer goods might mean many of them HAD better days. If you are insinuating that the poor should have to sell all of their goods before getting any aid then have "an honest discussion about" that idea. Sell all you own before you are considered poor. Whatever.

2. HOUSING: So many of us have decent housing. Maybe this is BECAUSE of the aid programs? Are you suggesting that the poor should be made homeless as well as poor?

3. ENOUGH MONEY TO MEET ESSENTIAL NEEDS: I have to call BS on that. How is this figure arrived at? A total dollar amount per year compared to the average person's "essential needs"? The "average" person has little health care needs. What about the MILLIONS who DO need health care and therefore can't "meet essential needs"? In fact, the leading cause of bankruptcy is... health emergencies! Go figure.

So, what? Even poor people in America live better than many in the world. True. We have (had) a wealthy nation where the lucky become rich and even the unlucky usually are not suffering greatly. Is that a bad thing?

You are no Samaritan. May God have mercy on your soul.