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Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!
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reply to post by Akragon
OK - you said:
Talking about confusing statements - but you are judging God's word. Read again what you said above - why this circle reasoning?
As for my faith, you said:
Where did you read that I'm judging anyone? I'm merely stating the fact that due to your misconceptions you judged the Bible incorrectly as "not Gods word". And I'm simply here to defend it and prove you wrong. Also we don't judge anyone but are willing to help any who wants to understand the Bible. In fact we are the ones being judge as "brainwashed" and a nuisance. Happily there are people who still appreciate the work we do. We also meet people like you who like treat the Bible as a joke - something to laugh at. But hey that's their choice.
Some of them likes to twist the Word Of God in order to make themselves appear smarter than God the author of the Bible.
Through subtle manipulation of words they seem to convinced themselves that they are correct - but in reality they are just confused.
Let me show you what I mean.
Last time I said:
"Here's the explanation.
But first let's clarify something that you've didn't bother to look at.
That is - the "child" that your referring to here is not a child at all."
and you came back with:
Yes I do because it clarifies your misconception.
You see by stating that:
And that
You're clearly misstating what the Scriptures said.
By you using the word "child" instead of "son" as in "stubborn and rebellious", "glutton, and a drunkard" son you gave a different meaning to the texts - in short the verses got twisted and you made it seem that God murders children for being stubborn. And that IMHO is your intention. Correct?
But after showing you the correct explanation, now you say:
How convenient.
So now it's not a "child" anymore but "this sort of person".
Interesting. I'm glad that we got that out of the way because the real reason is now apparent.
That is,
So your "problem" is NOT with the Bible but the death of a disrespectful, "stubborn and rebellious" and "glutton, and a drunkard" man. You're lamenting the death of an "evil" man and blaming God for it. Am I correct?
In other words, you don't approve of the verdict rendered by the "judges", correct? And since it was recorded in the Bible - you accused and judged God as a "murderer", correct?
I wonder what would you to this evil person if you were one of the "city elders" back there in the Wilderness? Probably you'll side with the evildoer.
Next you said:
See what I mean? You need to pay closer attention to what you're reading man and open your mind to the scriptures and not pre-judge it because the answer is right in front of you.
Here, let me show you: you quoted verse19 (KJV).
Here again what it said:
See the text "unto the gate of his place; - any idea what is meant by the word "gate"?
Eaton's Bible Dictionary states that:
www.blueletterbible.org...'s
Is that clear enough to you?
But you say:
Umhh... Nope. You're the one who completely missed the point on several counts already - and the list is growing.
Here's another.
You said:
And
There u go again - without knowing the facts you keep misrepresenting what the Bible actually said.
The fact is - it's not THE LAW as you claim to "beat your wife and children when they don't listen... " not even "perhaps". In fact it's not even mentioned in the Bible. But if you're so sure about this please provide the verses that says exactly what you're claiming. That is, that God commanded his people to "beat your wife and children when they don't listen... "
Otherwise stop doing this because you will bury yourself deeper.
Next you said:
Correct, last time I check it's 2011 - but I thought we were discussing events that occurred more than 3000 years ago? If not then let me know and make up you're mind, if you want to discuss the Bible in today's timeline or Biblical events of the past.
Like I said The Word of God the Bible is Infallible - will never make mistakes - but people do.
Must I repeat it again?
As for the following:
History, historical CONTEXT to be precise!!! You see, when you read the Bible you also need to consider the historical context of the texts, phrase, words else you won't get the full meaning of the verse. The historical document that I quoted was to show you that God's Laws are just and far superior to any man made laws.
But since you're intention is to portray the Bible and God as evil then of course things like historical context doesn't matter.
Now your next statement is a perfect example of why the NWT is far superior to the KJV or to any translation today. In fact if you've used it in most of your quotes - you've probably avoided much of these confusions.
Here's what you said:
Here's how the NWT puts it:
See the difference?
So if a person who knowingly violates God's laws and knows the penalty yet still does it without any remorse - just like a murderer - that person has already condemned himself (in the eyes of God and man). Any court of justice even today knows to be so.
But a person who accidentally or unintentionally "killed" someone will not pay for his life but is granted "refuge" in the city of refuge (Numbers 35). In the court of law - such person is not convicted as a "murderer" but is set free from charges.
In other words - in the court of law a judge who handed the death (kill) penalty to a wanton criminal is justified according to rules of the laws of the land.
In the case of the "stubborn and rebellious", "glutton, and a drunkard" man - being a Hebrew / Jew, he was aware of what he did and was found to be an "evil" person by the "city elders" thus meriting the penalty of death.
As for what I said:
The law given to Moses and the nation of Israel - no doubt is a just standard since the accused is given the opportunity to change his ways. The penalty is not handed down by one person but by the community "elders". A trial or hearing is afforded the accused - only when it's determined that the accused will not change then the penalty is implemented.
For which you replied:
Yes and No.
Remember the question that I asked you?
Why did God give the Laws (600 including the 10 commandments) to the Nation of Israel?
If you can answer this q correctly then you will understand my reply.
As for
I'll get to this next time if you insist, in the meantime one thing I need to know from you (I'm not judging but merely asking):
Do you accept homosexual acts? That is, do you accept and approve if a man sleeps with another man and both commit homosexual acts?
As for judging others...
If you're judging us as "Brainwashed" to do good to others as laid out in the Golden Rule - that I wholeheartedly agree!!!
And lastly - thanks for the tip.
Later...
OK - you said:
I'm questioning you not judging Gods words.... The bible is not Gods word. It is a book written millenia ago by people "inspired" by God.
Talking about confusing statements - but you are judging God's word. Read again what you said above - why this circle reasoning?
As for my faith, you said:
You're not supprized because the people of your religion deal with people like me on a daily basis, you have learned to judge everyone that doesn't agree with you...Typical?
Where did you read that I'm judging anyone? I'm merely stating the fact that due to your misconceptions you judged the Bible incorrectly as "not Gods word". And I'm simply here to defend it and prove you wrong. Also we don't judge anyone but are willing to help any who wants to understand the Bible. In fact we are the ones being judge as "brainwashed" and a nuisance. Happily there are people who still appreciate the work we do. We also meet people like you who like treat the Bible as a joke - something to laugh at. But hey that's their choice.
Some of them likes to twist the Word Of God in order to make themselves appear smarter than God the author of the Bible.
Through subtle manipulation of words they seem to convinced themselves that they are correct - but in reality they are just confused.
Let me show you what I mean.
Last time I said:
"Here's the explanation.
But first let's clarify something that you've didn't bother to look at.
That is - the "child" that your referring to here is not a child at all."
and you came back with:
Do you honestly think that matters?
Yes I do because it clarifies your misconception.
You see by stating that:
""God" not only condones murder and slavery, he commands it.."
And that
""God" says you should stone your stuburn child,"
You're clearly misstating what the Scriptures said.
By you using the word "child" instead of "son" as in "stubborn and rebellious", "glutton, and a drunkard" son you gave a different meaning to the texts - in short the verses got twisted and you made it seem that God murders children for being stubborn. And that IMHO is your intention. Correct?
But after showing you the correct explanation, now you say:
I know the person they're talking about is not a child.
How convenient.
Its a general statement about how this sort of person should be treated.
So now it's not a "child" anymore but "this sort of person".
Interesting. I'm glad that we got that out of the way because the real reason is now apparent.
That is,
Its not who the "child" is, its the act that is commanded to be carried out upon him that's "the" problem.
So your "problem" is NOT with the Bible but the death of a disrespectful, "stubborn and rebellious" and "glutton, and a drunkard" man. You're lamenting the death of an "evil" man and blaming God for it. Am I correct?
In other words, you don't approve of the verdict rendered by the "judges", correct? And since it was recorded in the Bible - you accused and judged God as a "murderer", correct?
I wonder what would you to this evil person if you were one of the "city elders" back there in the Wilderness? Probably you'll side with the evildoer.
Next you said:
And now you're adding things that aren't there....
Where do you see a hearing in these verses...?
See what I mean? You need to pay closer attention to what you're reading man and open your mind to the scriptures and not pre-judge it because the answer is right in front of you.
Here, let me show you: you quoted verse19 (KJV).
Here again what it said:
"Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
See the text "unto the gate of his place; - any idea what is meant by the word "gate"?
Eaton's Bible Dictionary states that:
At the gates of cities courts of justice were frequently held, and hence "judges of the gate" are spoken of (Deu 16:18; 17:8; 21:19; 25:6,7, etc.). At the gates prophets also frequently delivered their messages (Pro 1:21; 8:3; Isa 29:21; Jer 17:19,20; 26:10). ....
www.blueletterbible.org...'s
Is that clear enough to you?
But you say:
AND....yet again...
You've Completely missed the point...
Umhh... Nope. You're the one who completely missed the point on several counts already - and the list is growing.
Here's another.
You said:
I realize there was a time when things like this were normal.There was a time when you beat your wife and children when they don't listen...
And
So perhaps at one time this was Law....
There u go again - without knowing the facts you keep misrepresenting what the Bible actually said.
The fact is - it's not THE LAW as you claim to "beat your wife and children when they don't listen... " not even "perhaps". In fact it's not even mentioned in the Bible. But if you're so sure about this please provide the verses that says exactly what you're claiming. That is, that God commanded his people to "beat your wife and children when they don't listen... "
Otherwise stop doing this because you will bury yourself deeper.
Next you said:
But we don't live in that age anymore, this is a relatively civilized society. My point is this isn't something that's done these days.
Correct, last time I check it's 2011 - but I thought we were discussing events that occurred more than 3000 years ago? If not then let me know and make up you're mind, if you want to discuss the Bible in today's timeline or Biblical events of the past.
But you're saying that every word of the bible is correct.....which leads me to believe you also think this is "still" correct...
Like I said The Word of God the Bible is Infallible - will never make mistakes - but people do.
Because the bible is Gods word which is always correct....right?
Must I repeat it again?
As for the following:
"Now let's compare how punishment is delivered by other nations during the Patriarchal period and see which one is a just standard.
Here's a comparison of how justice was delivered during the Patriarchal period in the Middle East:
The author of the book Family, Love and the Bible said:
...
Blah blah blah
..
.
.
So which law do you think is just and which one is cruel?"
What?!?!? What does that have to do with ANYTHING?!?!?
History, historical CONTEXT to be precise!!! You see, when you read the Bible you also need to consider the historical context of the texts, phrase, words else you won't get the full meaning of the verse. The historical document that I quoted was to show you that God's Laws are just and far superior to any man made laws.
But since you're intention is to portray the Bible and God as evil then of course things like historical context doesn't matter.
Now your next statement is a perfect example of why the NWT is far superior to the KJV or to any translation today. In fact if you've used it in most of your quotes - you've probably avoided much of these confusions.
Here's what you said:
Both are cruel and unjust, Thou shall not Kill.... Remember?
Here's how the NWT puts it:
“You must not murder.” (Deuteronomy 5:17)
See the difference?
So if a person who knowingly violates God's laws and knows the penalty yet still does it without any remorse - just like a murderer - that person has already condemned himself (in the eyes of God and man). Any court of justice even today knows to be so.
But a person who accidentally or unintentionally "killed" someone will not pay for his life but is granted "refuge" in the city of refuge (Numbers 35). In the court of law - such person is not convicted as a "murderer" but is set free from charges.
In other words - in the court of law a judge who handed the death (kill) penalty to a wanton criminal is justified according to rules of the laws of the land.
In the case of the "stubborn and rebellious", "glutton, and a drunkard" man - being a Hebrew / Jew, he was aware of what he did and was found to be an "evil" person by the "city elders" thus meriting the penalty of death.
As for what I said:
The law given to Moses and the nation of Israel - no doubt is a just standard since the accused is given the opportunity to change his ways. The penalty is not handed down by one person but by the community "elders". A trial or hearing is afforded the accused - only when it's determined that the accused will not change then the penalty is implemented.
For which you replied:
Realize that this is not a story about what happened to a man, these are rules and actions that should be taken in certain circumstances. Read the entire chapter...
And again that is beside the point... By todays standards everything that has been mentioned in this post is considered cruel and inhumain. Some of these things are still practiced in some countries because of this book, and others like it.......
So... In that circumstance, in places where this is still practiced to this day...
Do you believe this is morally correct because its Gods word? YES OR NO?
Yes and No.
Remember the question that I asked you?
Why did God give the Laws (600 including the 10 commandments) to the Nation of Israel?
If you can answer this q correctly then you will understand my reply.
As for
Ohhhh, no you're not getting away that easy
The homosexuality thing is next.... But I'll wait til you reply to this post.
I'll get to this next time if you insist, in the meantime one thing I need to know from you (I'm not judging but merely asking):
Do you accept homosexual acts? That is, do you accept and approve if a man sleeps with another man and both commit homosexual acts?
As for judging others...
Believe it or not, I used to live with 3 JW's, You're no different then they were... Brainwashed...
If you're judging us as "Brainwashed" to do good to others as laid out in the Golden Rule - that I wholeheartedly agree!!!
And lastly - thanks for the tip.
... now that we have ipads/phones...
Later...
reply to post by bogomil
Since you're so confident and convinced that the Bible is fallible, not the word of God and full of errors - then you must know the Bible cover to cover.
If not then how are you able render such final verdict?
Unless you're only winging it - just guessing it - are you?
Like they say "don't judge a book by it's cover."
I've read the Bible cover to cover twice already and going on my third - how about you?
Where have I claimed bible-expertise?
Since you're so confident and convinced that the Bible is fallible, not the word of God and full of errors - then you must know the Bible cover to cover.
If not then how are you able render such final verdict?
Unless you're only winging it - just guessing it - are you?
Like they say "don't judge a book by it's cover."
I've read the Bible cover to cover twice already and going on my third - how about you?
'
Originally posted by edmc^2
Simple reason is that - It's author God (YHWH - Jehovah/Yehowah/Yahweh) IS the Living God!
He is the Almighty God having the Will, the Wisdom and The Power to fulfill his own Word and his promises. Thus whatever he says will be done.
Christ Jesus said of God's word:
"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (John 17:17 NIV)
God's word said:
"All Scripture is inspired by God" (2 Tim 3:16 NASB)
Of God - his own word said:
"But Jehovah is the true God; he is the living God," (Jer 10:10 ASV)
Of God's promises - Joshua said:
"And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which Jehovah your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, not one thing hath failed thereof." (Jos 23:14 ASV)
Finally, God's own promise:
"So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper [in the thing] for which I sent it." (Isa 55:11 NKJV)
Therefore by the clear statements above the Word Of God found in the Bible is Infallible.
I am not a muslim, i am a christian but even i know you have forgotten God's other names. He has been called El, and he is also known as Allah. Other than that iagree with you 100%. I just didnt want you to forget that Islam believes in God and they believe in Yeshua (Jesus Christ) even if they do not agree that he is the messiah, they still share the One True God El.
By the way why the hell are the radicals trying to kill jews and christians again? It's silly enough to be childish, petty and stupid.
edit on
10-8-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Seems to me most the dead are Muslim, so who are the "radicals"?
Would you like to give a breakdown of the body count?
By the way why the hell are the radicals trying to kill jews and christians again?
Seems to me most the dead are Muslim, so who are the "radicals"?
reply to post by edmc^2
Im Not judging Gods word, The bible isn't Gods word... I believe Gods word is in the bible but not the bible in its entirety.
God did not write the bible, im questioning your understanding of a book.
Right here...
You know nothing about me, yet you assume that i have no love for God, and disregard his laws.
Your God's "moral code" and his laws do not apply to me... And yes, i DO NOT love your God.
Once again, that is your opinion...
God did not write the bible... Its as simple as that, thus... it is not Gods word.
You're kidding right? Most JW's i've met condem everyone to hell that doesn't agree with what they believe... I find your religion puts too much stock in Revelatons...
Yaaay, more assumptions!! I do not treat the bible as a joke, though i don't take the "stories" as seriously as you might....
Incorrect, we are all "children" of God....
Incorrect... God didn't write the bible... Though i would consider anyone who followed through with what is written in that passage to be a murderer... And it would be because of those instructions in the bible....
Incorrect...
As i've said this isn't a story about a specific person, its a guide line for how this sort of person should be treated in said situation...
Incorrect... Please see the above statement...
And this....
God didn't write the bible!!!
Correct! - 1 point for you...
Incorrect
God didn't write the bible.... SO why would he be to blame for silly passages in said bible...
More assumptions... I would not "side" with either. If said man is a drunken idiot hes free to be a drunkin stuborn idiot. And by murdering said individual, the judges become the evildoers... Some people believe in forgiveness.... like here,,,
...
..
.
Perfectly.... it still does not make the act just....or correct.
Hardly...
I used that as an example... Im talking about mistreatment of anyone being considered the correct way to go about things.
Im sure there isn't anything that says "beat your wife and children" in the bible, though i might be wrong.
Im not the one digging a hole dude, this is your thread... and thus far you've proven nothing.
Incorrect...
We're talking about the bible being "the infallible word of God"... Im pointing out that this is not God speaking, this is not God that would condone these acts that are in the bible. It is the author... Who was not God...
Dude why can't you follow along with this discussion....
The Bible is Gods infallible word... meaning the whole thing is always correct, never inaccurate. These are situations where im telling you "the bible is Incorrect"... It may be accurate according to what was practiced in that time.... But none the less... Not the way God (according to Jesus at least) would act or tell his "children" to act.
At least you got half of that statement right...
Repeat it all you like, i believe the point is to prove it....which you haven't came close to doing as of yet.
The bible is not historical fact... That is a fact.
And as i've said before... you claiming the bible is "superior to any man made laws" is your opinion... Though i do agree most man made laws are just as much a mess as your Gods laws.
Considering i don't believe in Evil, i would have to say.... INCORRECT!!
Absolutely, but that is a pointless arguement... And i'll even one up your translation with my own belief...
Thou shall not Harm
We don't put people to death in my country, and people regularly violate the law without remorse "including murderers" ...
And people of your religion regularly judge me for not believing what they do...Thus they've already condemed themselves in the eyes of God... Sound about right?
Not in Canada... We consider it murder regardless of who issued the command.
Evil is to subjective to even consider being a reason for death. Great example of how the bible promotes fear... Similar to the witch trials of the 16-17th century. Kill the evil doers... Right?
Pointless meaningless arguement... And not helping your innitial premise.
What a person does behind closed doors is no ones business but his own, why would you judge a person because of his sexual preference?
Oh wait, i know the answer to that one... Because its in the bible...
The fact is i couldn't care less what any person's sexual preference is... Yes i have some gay friends, and i treat them no differently then any of my other friends.
Im not judging you or your religion, im telling you from my experiences with JW's... 95% of the people i've met from your religion condem anyone to hell if you don't believe what they do. Your missionaries use fear as a conversion tactic, which is morally wrong.
Yes exploiting peoples fear of the unknown is wrong... IMHO
UGH!!! Wheres my Gun!! :bnghd:
Hahaha, just kidding
Talking about confusing statements - but you are judging God's word. Read again what you said above - why this circle reasoning?
Im Not judging Gods word, The bible isn't Gods word... I believe Gods word is in the bible but not the bible in its entirety.
God did not write the bible, im questioning your understanding of a book.
Where did you read that I'm judging anyone?
Right here...
But since you're morality is not governed by God's moral code of conduct then of course you'll have a different POV just like people who doesn't have love for God and disregard his laws.
You know nothing about me, yet you assume that i have no love for God, and disregard his laws.
Your God's "moral code" and his laws do not apply to me... And yes, i DO NOT love your God.
I'm merely stating the fact that due to your misconceptions you judged the Bible incorrectly as "not Gods word".
Once again, that is your opinion...
God did not write the bible... Its as simple as that, thus... it is not Gods word.
Also we don't judge anyone but are willing to help any who wants to understand the Bible.
You're kidding right? Most JW's i've met condem everyone to hell that doesn't agree with what they believe... I find your religion puts too much stock in Revelatons...
We also meet people like you who like treat the Bible as a joke - something to laugh at. But hey that's their choice.
Yaaay, more assumptions!! I do not treat the bible as a joke, though i don't take the "stories" as seriously as you might....
By you using the word "child" instead of "son" as in "stubborn and rebellious", "glutton, and a drunkard" son you gave a different meaning to the texts
Incorrect, we are all "children" of God....
in short the verses got twisted and you made it seem that God murders children for being stubborn. And that IMHO is your intention. Correct?
Incorrect... God didn't write the bible... Though i would consider anyone who followed through with what is written in that passage to be a murderer... And it would be because of those instructions in the bible....
So your "problem" is NOT with the Bible but the death of a disrespectful, "stubborn and rebellious" and "glutton, and a drunkard" man.
Incorrect...
As i've said this isn't a story about a specific person, its a guide line for how this sort of person should be treated in said situation...
You're lamenting the death of an "evil" man and blaming God for it. Am I correct?
Incorrect... Please see the above statement...
And this....
God didn't write the bible!!!
In other words, you don't approve of the verdict rendered by the "judges", correct?
Correct! - 1 point for you...
And since it was recorded in the Bible - you accused and judged God as a "murderer", correct?
Incorrect
God didn't write the bible.... SO why would he be to blame for silly passages in said bible...
I wonder what would you to this evil person if you were one of the "city elders" back there in the Wilderness? Probably you'll side with the evildoer.
More assumptions... I would not "side" with either. If said man is a drunken idiot hes free to be a drunkin stuborn idiot. And by murdering said individual, the judges become the evildoers... Some people believe in forgiveness.... like here,,,
21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
...
..
.
See the text "unto the gate of his place; - any idea what is meant by the word "gate"?
Eaton's Bible Dictionary states that:
At the gates of cities courts of justice were frequently held, and hence "judges of the gate" are spoken of (Deu 16:18; 17:8; 21:19; 25:6,7, etc.). At the gates prophets also frequently delivered their messages (Pro 1:21; 8:3; Isa 29:21; Jer 17:19,20; 26:10). ....
Is that clear enough to you?
Perfectly.... it still does not make the act just....or correct.
Umhh... Nope. You're the one who completely missed the point on several counts already - and the list is growing
Hardly...
The fact is - it's not THE LAW as you claim to "beat your wife and children when they don't listen... " not even "perhaps". In fact it's not even mentioned in the Bible. But if you're so sure about this please provide the verses that says exactly what you're claiming. That is, that God commanded his people to "beat your wife and children when they don't listen...
I used that as an example... Im talking about mistreatment of anyone being considered the correct way to go about things.
Im sure there isn't anything that says "beat your wife and children" in the bible, though i might be wrong.
Otherwise stop doing this because you will bury yourself deeper.
Im not the one digging a hole dude, this is your thread... and thus far you've proven nothing.
Correct, last time I check it's 2011 - but I thought we were discussing events that occurred more than 3000 years ago?
Incorrect...
We're talking about the bible being "the infallible word of God"... Im pointing out that this is not God speaking, this is not God that would condone these acts that are in the bible. It is the author... Who was not God...
If not then let me know and make up you're mind, if you want to discuss the Bible in today's timeline or Biblical events of the past.
Dude why can't you follow along with this discussion....
The Bible is Gods infallible word... meaning the whole thing is always correct, never inaccurate. These are situations where im telling you "the bible is Incorrect"... It may be accurate according to what was practiced in that time.... But none the less... Not the way God (according to Jesus at least) would act or tell his "children" to act.
Like I said The Word of God the Bible is Infallible - will never make mistakes - but people do.
At least you got half of that statement right...
Must I repeat it again?
Repeat it all you like, i believe the point is to prove it....which you haven't came close to doing as of yet.
History, historical CONTEXT to be precise!!! You see, when you read the Bible you also need to consider the historical context of the texts, phrase, words else you won't get the full meaning of the verse. The historical document that I quoted was to show you that God's Laws are just and far superior to any man made laws.
The bible is not historical fact... That is a fact.
And as i've said before... you claiming the bible is "superior to any man made laws" is your opinion... Though i do agree most man made laws are just as much a mess as your Gods laws.
But since you're intention is to portray the Bible and God as evil then of course things like historical context doesn't matter.
Considering i don't believe in Evil, i would have to say.... INCORRECT!!
Now your next statement is a perfect example of why the NWT is far superior to the KJV or to any translation today. In fact if you've used it in most of your quotes - you've probably avoided much of these confusions.
Here's what you said:
Both are cruel and unjust, Thou shall not Kill.... Remember?
Here's how the NWT puts it:
“You must not murder.” (Deuteronomy 5:17)
See the difference?
Absolutely, but that is a pointless arguement... And i'll even one up your translation with my own belief...
Thou shall not Harm
So if a person who knowingly violates God's laws and knows the penalty yet still does it without any remorse - just like a murderer - that person has already condemned himself (in the eyes of God and man). Any court of justice even today knows to be so.
We don't put people to death in my country, and people regularly violate the law without remorse "including murderers" ...
And people of your religion regularly judge me for not believing what they do...Thus they've already condemed themselves in the eyes of God... Sound about right?
In other words - in the court of law a judge who handed the death (kill) penalty to a wanton criminal is justified according to rules of the laws of the land.
Not in Canada... We consider it murder regardless of who issued the command.
In the case of the "stubborn and rebellious", "glutton, and a drunkard" man - being a Hebrew / Jew, he was aware of what he did and was found to be an "evil" person by the "city elders" thus meriting the penalty of death.
Evil is to subjective to even consider being a reason for death. Great example of how the bible promotes fear... Similar to the witch trials of the 16-17th century. Kill the evil doers... Right?
Remember the question that I asked you?
Why did God give the Laws (600 including the 10 commandments) to the Nation of Israel?
If you can answer this q correctly then you will understand my reply.
Pointless meaningless arguement... And not helping your innitial premise.
Do you accept homosexual acts? That is, do you accept and approve if a man sleeps with another man and both commit homosexual acts?
What a person does behind closed doors is no ones business but his own, why would you judge a person because of his sexual preference?
Oh wait, i know the answer to that one... Because its in the bible...
The fact is i couldn't care less what any person's sexual preference is... Yes i have some gay friends, and i treat them no differently then any of my other friends.
If you're judging us as "Brainwashed" to do good to others as laid out in the Golden Rule - that I wholeheartedly agree!!!
Im not judging you or your religion, im telling you from my experiences with JW's... 95% of the people i've met from your religion condem anyone to hell if you don't believe what they do. Your missionaries use fear as a conversion tactic, which is morally wrong.
Yes exploiting peoples fear of the unknown is wrong... IMHO
And lastly - thanks for the tip.
UGH!!! Wheres my Gun!! :bnghd:
Hahaha, just kidding
edit on 10-8-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Would you like to give a breakdown of the body count?
By the way why the hell are the radicals trying to kill jews and christians again?
Seems to me most the dead are Muslim, so who are the "radicals"?
Hm lets see. With all the attacks Osama bin Laden had ok'd, lets take a peek at all the attacks he claimed he ordered and the ensuing body count. Oh don't forget all the suicide bombings the radicals have done over the years. See where im going? Good.
World trade center, 3,000+ people dead in a day, Not to mention all the U.S. embassies he ordered to be attacked, a U.S. warship he ordered to be attacked and came close to sinking. One madman, responsible for so many deaths. He's literally the Hitler of the 21st century. The number he and his radicals have killed numbers in the thousands. Do you see any members of christian churches claiming the killings of islamic radicals? Nope, in fact the U.S. government doesnt even claim God anymore and separation of church and state occured during the revolutionary war. We don't blow anyone up in the name of Allah or any god or call people that don't believe 100% everything we do "infidels", nor do we capture innocent american truck drivers trying to make a living, and saw their heads off with a serrated knife and air it on the internet for everyone to see his agony and hear his death screams. We can argue all day about who has done what, in the end its not christians being inhumane and you cant say our military is christian either because there are more atheists, homosexuals and peoples of different religions, christian soldiers are but a fraction now. Lets not forget all the people radicals kidnap and bury in the sand and left to suffocate. Radicals serve shai'tan, they've left Allah's path long ago.
Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by bogomil
Where have I claimed bible-expertise?
Since you're so confident and convinced that the Bible is fallible, not the word of God and full of errors - then you must know the Bible cover to cover.
If not then how are you able render such final verdict?
Unless you're only winging it - just guessing it - are you?
Like they say "don't judge a book by it's cover."
I've read the Bible cover to cover twice already and going on my third - how about you?
You're just trying to talk your way around a look at gen 1 & 2.
This sandbox competition of competence-requests is your own invention and has nothing to do with your claims.
So let's go to gen 1 & 2, and let me hear more about your non-method method for interpretation.
YOU are the one making extraordinary claims, .......and you won't accept challenges.
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Would you like to give a breakdown of the body count?
By the way why the hell are the radicals trying to kill jews and christians again?
Seems to me most the dead are Muslim, so who are the "radicals"?
Hm lets see. With all the attacks Osama bin Laden had ok'd, lets take a peek at all the attacks he claimed he ordered and the ensuing body count. Oh don't forget all the suicide bombings the radicals have done over the years. See where im going? Good.
World trade center, 3,000+ people dead in a day, Not to mention all the U.S. embassies he ordered to be attacked, a U.S. warship he ordered to be attacked and came close to sinking. One madman, responsible for so many deaths. He's literally the Hitler of the 21st century. The number he and his radicals have killed numbers in the thousands. Do you see any members of christian churches claiming the killings of islamic radicals? Nope, in fact the U.S. government doesnt even claim God anymore and separation of church and state occured during the revolutionary war. We don't blow anyone up in the name of Allah or any god or call people that don't believe 100% everything we do "infidels", nor do we capture innocent american truck drivers trying to make a living, and saw their heads off with a serrated knife and air it on the internet for everyone to see his agony and hear his death screams. We can argue all day about who has done what, in the end its not christians being inhumane and you cant say our military is christian either because there are more atheists, homosexuals and peoples of different religions, christian soldiers are but a fraction now. Lets not forget all the people radicals kidnap and bury in the sand and left to suffocate. Radicals serve shai'tan, they've left Allah's path long ago.
OK, no body count because you will not list the dead Muslims by Israel and the American Empire System.
So your argument is completely invalid.
Osama bin Laden was a know American agent for the CIA.
The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were never proven to have been done by bin Laden and was in fact a false flag attack overseen by Vice President, Dick Cheney.
Militarism and radicalism of Muslims is done through Saudi Arabia with American support.
edit on 11-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason
given)
reply to post by bogomil
I'm not sure if you're just trolling or not because I've already addressed your post very extensively (page 19). In fact I've explained them verse by verse to avoid your claim that I "cheery-pick" things.
SO here they are again - please address them verse by verse and prove that my explanations are wrong - instead of just saying the same old tired rhetoric. And please back up your arguments with scriptures as I did.
Otherwise I say you're just trolling.
======
======
'I thought I already explained this? No?
OK then, let’s take a quick trip in the memory lane. Let’s look at the Scriptures starting from Genesis Chapter 1 through Chapter 2.
Genesis 1 (NWT)
In V1 – Moses the writer of Genesis simply tells us this simple fact: that the “heavens and the earth” were Created. Included in the creation of the “heavens” (universe) are the heavenly bodies such as the stars, the moon and the SUN, as well as Galaxies. There's no mention of time here, so this can be thousands or billions of years (no contradiction with currently known scientific evidence).
In the next verse V2 – the writer now focuses our attention on the "formless" earth.
He writes:
Here, we notice the writer said that the “earth” was “formless” engulf in a “watery deep” – so naturally no light from the heavenly bodies mentioned in Gen 1:1 (such as the sun or the moon) can penetrate through the “watery deep”. No light thus - “there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep “. So at this stage the earth (solid mass enveloped in a “watery deep”) was still uninhabitable.
Then time came to make it habitable.
Interestingly this is how science describes how planets are formed. They reason that at the early stages of the planet’s formation at one time all of earth’s water existed in the form of atmospheric vapor because of the extreme heat of the earth’s surface.
NOW : The 1st Creative “Day”
(Note: the creative “Day” – is not a literal 24 hr day but spans thousands of years as indicated by the Bible Chronology)
Gen 1:3 --
At this stage of the 1st Creative Day when God’s power (spirit) was “moving to and fro over the surface of the waters”, it did something to the dark “watery deep” since “light” from heavenly bodies mentioned in Gen 1:1 (sun, moon, stars) became visible on the earth – “there came to light”.
So if a person was standing on earth he can see light* through the “watery deep”. This “light” as explained by the writer created/provided a division between the darkness from the light – God “calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night”.
*Other translations puts v3 this way: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A Distinctive Translation of Genesis)
Next stage: The 2nd Creative Day
At this stage of Creation – the writer informs us that a division (#expanse – heaven / sky / dome) was created “between the waters ...that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse.” In other words a sky is now in view where flying creature can fly to.
#the Bible is silent as to how the “expanse” was created.
Next stage: The 3rd Creative Day
At this stage of the 3rd Creative Day – dry land appeared – “and God began calling the dry land Earth”. This means that water sank and they were “brought together into one” and “the waters he called Seas”.
-- National Geographic is good at explaining this event, the rise and fall of the seas / land / mountains --
Also at this stage the 3rd Creative Day – after “dry land” appeared plant / tree life of every kind began to grow – courtesy of photosynthesis from the sun now shining through the “water above the expanse”.
Interestingly, due to this ‘water canopy’ that enveloped the earth – climate at all regions was the same. Archeology confirmed this to be so when they discovered underneath the ice sheets plant and animal life that normally grow and live on warm regions of the earth today.
Next stage: The 4th Creative Day
Now that vegetation/plant/tree life are well established (growing bountifully) – courtesy of photosynthesis coming from the sun, the heavenly bodies (sun, moon and even stars) are now observable from man's point of view.
So at this stage of the Creative Day – there's now clear division between the 12 hr day and 12 hr night. Thus the “two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day (the sun) and the lesser luminary for dominating the night” (the moon) can now serve as time markers on earth. These “two great luminaries” can now serve “as signs and for seasons and for days and years.”
Next stage: The 5th creative 'DAY'
At this stage of Creation animals of every sort was created - flying creatures, fish including the "great sea monster" and possible dinosaurs were created at this stage also (by the mention of “great sea monsters”).
Next stage: The 6th creative 'DAY'
In the 6th Creative DAY land animals characterized as wild and domestic appeared.
But this 6th Creative “DAY” was not over yet. One last amazing and very remarkable “kind” of living creature was to come:
At LAST man was created in God's 'image' “male and female he created them” possessing attributes and abilities far superior than the animal “kind” that God created – this “man”, this human “male and female” can reflect their Creator’s foremost attributes (of love, wisdom, justice and power).
After that they were commanded:
Then on The 7th creative “DAY”:
God 'rested' or desisted from his creative activities for it was finally done.
So to summarize the sequence of the creative “DAY”:
1) Planets, sun moon stars already existed (created) billions and billions of years.
2) Watery earth was formless.
3) Preparation for earth to be inhabited.
Day 1: Light (of some sort) came to be on a formless watery earth.
Day 2: Separation between waters above and waters below, expanse (sky) appeared.
Day 3: Dry land, vegetation, organism appeared and water basins formed (seas).
Day 4: Lights from the luminaries became discernible from earth. Days and seasons.
Day 5: Animals of every sort appeared; fish, flying creatures, sea monsters – dinosaurs.
Day 6: More animals -wild and domestic and finally man was created.
Day 7: Physical Creation stopped.
Interestingly science agrees with the sequence of events described by the writer of Genesis - proof again that the writer Moses received the information from a source with knowledge of the events.
Science lists 10 major stages in this order:
(1) A beginning.
(2) A primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water.
(3) Light.
(4) An expanse or atmosphere.
(5) Large areas of dry land.
(6) Land plants.
(7) Sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning.
(8) Sea monsters and flying creatures.
(9) Wild and tame beasts, mammals.
(10) Man.
Q – Do you know the difference between the words “created” and “made”?
This is also some of the key words in understanding the sequence of creative “day”.
Next, beginning on V4 the writer of Genesis describes for us what transpired when man was created “out of dust from the ground”. Additional details were given. In other words, Moses narrates for us the “HISTORY” of man when he was created under the heavens and the earth.
Next the writer of Genesis tells us more detail as to where man was going to reside and a “command upon the man”
The following verses (19 and 20 with 7) are the verses that bible critics claim to contradict with Gen. 1:24-26
Claim was:
That is:
Well, I’ve already explained this on page 15 (2nd post – reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
(Hint – purposely left out v20 on that reply to prove a point)
But like I said, the key in understanding 2:19 is in the statement “was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens”. This simply means that all animals were formed from the ground and that Adam was given the task of naming them. That’s all; any other way of reading it will be incorrect (which evidently what you did).
Here’s NLT:
2:19 “So the LORD God formed from the ground all the wild animals and all the birds of the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and the man chose a name for each one.”
(ASV)
"And out of the ground Jehovah God formed every beast of the field, and every bird of the heavens; and brought them unto the man to see what he would call them: and whatsoever the man called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
For comparison of Gen 2:19, other translations puts it this way:
NASB
Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the *sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
© Info
The rest as they say is history.
Gen 3 tells the story of the fall of man from perfection and introduced sin, sickness, imperfection and finally death.
There u go…full explanation
Of course in the end NONE of these matters to you because you’ve already made up your mind on what to believe (a mumbo-jumbo) – pick n choose what will suit your pre-conceived ideas.'
=======
=======
If you can't counter what I said above then I'll move to prophecy as it's another strong area to show that INDEED the Bible IS the Word of God and IS an Infallible Guide.
Gen 3 is on page 20 - addressed to 'werewatchingyou man - who left the 'building'.
I'm not sure if you're just trolling or not because I've already addressed your post very extensively (page 19). In fact I've explained them verse by verse to avoid your claim that I "cheery-pick" things.
SO here they are again - please address them verse by verse and prove that my explanations are wrong - instead of just saying the same old tired rhetoric. And please back up your arguments with scriptures as I did.
Otherwise I say you're just trolling.
======
======
'I thought I already explained this? No?
OK then, let’s take a quick trip in the memory lane. Let’s look at the Scriptures starting from Genesis Chapter 1 through Chapter 2.
Genesis 1 (NWT)
1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.. – Gen 1:1
In V1 – Moses the writer of Genesis simply tells us this simple fact: that the “heavens and the earth” were Created. Included in the creation of the “heavens” (universe) are the heavenly bodies such as the stars, the moon and the SUN, as well as Galaxies. There's no mention of time here, so this can be thousands or billions of years (no contradiction with currently known scientific evidence).
In the next verse V2 – the writer now focuses our attention on the "formless" earth.
He writes:
2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters. – Gen 1:2
Here, we notice the writer said that the “earth” was “formless” engulf in a “watery deep” – so naturally no light from the heavenly bodies mentioned in Gen 1:1 (such as the sun or the moon) can penetrate through the “watery deep”. No light thus - “there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep “. So at this stage the earth (solid mass enveloped in a “watery deep”) was still uninhabitable.
Then time came to make it habitable.
Interestingly this is how science describes how planets are formed. They reason that at the early stages of the planet’s formation at one time all of earth’s water existed in the form of atmospheric vapor because of the extreme heat of the earth’s surface.
NOW : The 1st Creative “Day”
(Note: the creative “Day” – is not a literal 24 hr day but spans thousands of years as indicated by the Bible Chronology)
Gen 1:3 --
3 And God proceeded to say: “Let light come to be”* Then there came to be light. 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God brought about a division between the light and the darkness. 5 And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day. -- Gen 1: 3-5
At this stage of the 1st Creative Day when God’s power (spirit) was “moving to and fro over the surface of the waters”, it did something to the dark “watery deep” since “light” from heavenly bodies mentioned in Gen 1:1 (sun, moon, stars) became visible on the earth – “there came to light”.
So if a person was standing on earth he can see light* through the “watery deep”. This “light” as explained by the writer created/provided a division between the darkness from the light – God “calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night”.
*Other translations puts v3 this way: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A Distinctive Translation of Genesis)
Next stage: The 2nd Creative Day
6 And God went on to say: “Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.” 7 Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. 8 And God began to call the expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day. – Gen 1:6-8
At this stage of Creation – the writer informs us that a division (#expanse – heaven / sky / dome) was created “between the waters ...that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse.” In other words a sky is now in view where flying creature can fly to.
#the Bible is silent as to how the “expanse” was created.
Next stage: The 3rd Creative Day
9 And God went on to say: “Let the waters under the heavens be brought together into one place and let the dry land appear.” And it came to be so. 10 And God began calling the dry land Earth, but the bringing together of the waters he called Seas. Further, God saw that [it was] good. 11 And God went on to say: “Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation bearing seed, fruit trees yielding fruit according to their kinds, the seed of which is in it, upon the earth.” And it came to be so. 12 And the earth began to put forth grass, vegetation bearing seed according to its kind and trees yielding fruit, the seed of which is in it according to its kind. Then God saw that [it was] good. 13 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a third day. – Gen 1:9-13
At this stage of the 3rd Creative Day – dry land appeared – “and God began calling the dry land Earth”. This means that water sank and they were “brought together into one” and “the waters he called Seas”.
-- National Geographic is good at explaining this event, the rise and fall of the seas / land / mountains --
Also at this stage the 3rd Creative Day – after “dry land” appeared plant / tree life of every kind began to grow – courtesy of photosynthesis from the sun now shining through the “water above the expanse”.
Interestingly, due to this ‘water canopy’ that enveloped the earth – climate at all regions was the same. Archeology confirmed this to be so when they discovered underneath the ice sheets plant and animal life that normally grow and live on warm regions of the earth today.
Next stage: The 4th Creative Day
14 And God went on to say: “Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night; and they must serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. 15 And they must serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” And it came to be so. 16 And God proceeded to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars. 17 Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth, 18 and to dominate by day and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness. Then God saw that [it was] good. 19 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fourth day. – Gen 1:14-19
Now that vegetation/plant/tree life are well established (growing bountifully) – courtesy of photosynthesis coming from the sun, the heavenly bodies (sun, moon and even stars) are now observable from man's point of view.
So at this stage of the Creative Day – there's now clear division between the 12 hr day and 12 hr night. Thus the “two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day (the sun) and the lesser luminary for dominating the night” (the moon) can now serve as time markers on earth. These “two great luminaries” can now serve “as signs and for seasons and for days and years.”
Next stage: The 5th creative 'DAY'
“20 And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day.” -- Genesis 1:20-23.
At this stage of Creation animals of every sort was created - flying creatures, fish including the "great sea monster" and possible dinosaurs were created at this stage also (by the mention of “great sea monsters”).
Next stage: The 6th creative 'DAY'
“24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.” Genesis 1:24-25
In the 6th Creative DAY land animals characterized as wild and domestic appeared.
But this 6th Creative “DAY” was not over yet. One last amazing and very remarkable “kind” of living creature was to come:
V26-28:
“26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.” 27 And God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” -- Genesis 1:26-28
At LAST man was created in God's 'image' “male and female he created them” possessing attributes and abilities far superior than the animal “kind” that God created – this “man”, this human “male and female” can reflect their Creator’s foremost attributes (of love, wisdom, justice and power).
After that they were commanded:
“29 And God went on to say: “Here I have given to YOU all vegetation bearing seed which is on the surface of the whole earth and every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed. To YOU let it serve as food. 30 And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food.” And it came to be so. 31 After that God saw everything he had made and, look! [it was] very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.” -- Genesis 1:29-31.
Then on The 7th creative “DAY”:
God 'rested' or desisted from his creative activities for it was finally done.
“2 Thus the heavens and the earth and all their army came to their completion. 2 And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made. 3 And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has created for the purpose of making.” (Genesis 2:1-3)
So to summarize the sequence of the creative “DAY”:
1) Planets, sun moon stars already existed (created) billions and billions of years.
2) Watery earth was formless.
3) Preparation for earth to be inhabited.
Day 1: Light (of some sort) came to be on a formless watery earth.
Day 2: Separation between waters above and waters below, expanse (sky) appeared.
Day 3: Dry land, vegetation, organism appeared and water basins formed (seas).
Day 4: Lights from the luminaries became discernible from earth. Days and seasons.
Day 5: Animals of every sort appeared; fish, flying creatures, sea monsters – dinosaurs.
Day 6: More animals -wild and domestic and finally man was created.
Day 7: Physical Creation stopped.
Interestingly science agrees with the sequence of events described by the writer of Genesis - proof again that the writer Moses received the information from a source with knowledge of the events.
Science lists 10 major stages in this order:
(1) A beginning.
(2) A primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water.
(3) Light.
(4) An expanse or atmosphere.
(5) Large areas of dry land.
(6) Land plants.
(7) Sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning.
(8) Sea monsters and flying creatures.
(9) Wild and tame beasts, mammals.
(10) Man.
Q – Do you know the difference between the words “created” and “made”?
This is also some of the key words in understanding the sequence of creative “day”.
Next, beginning on V4 the writer of Genesis describes for us what transpired when man was created “out of dust from the ground”. Additional details were given. In other words, Moses narrates for us the “HISTORY” of man when he was created under the heavens and the earth.
“4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven. 5 Now there was as yet no bush of the field found in the earth and no vegetation of the field was as yet sprouting, because Jehovah God had not made it rain upon the earth and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist would go up from the earth and it watered the entire surface of the ground.” -- Genesis 2:4-6.
Next the writer of Genesis tells us more detail as to where man was going to reside and a “command upon the man”
“7 And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul. 8 Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in E′den, toward the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. 10 Now there was a river issuing out of E′den to water the garden, and from there it began to be parted and it became, as it were, four heads. 11 The first one’s name is Pi′shon; it is the one encircling the entire land of Hav′i•lah, where there is gold. 12 And the gold of that land is good. There also are the bdellium gum and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river is Gi′hon; it is the one encircling the entire land of Cush. 14 And the name of the third river is Hid′de•kel; it is the one going to the east of As•syr′i•a. And the fourth river is the Eu•phra′tes. 15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E′den to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.” 18 And Jehovah God went on to say: “It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.”
The following verses (19 and 20 with 7) are the verses that bible critics claim to contradict with Gen. 1:24-26
Claim was:
Genesis 1....fifth day God creates beast and flying creatures... sixth day God creates man and woman...
… Genesis 2... God creates Adam and puts him in Eden... then creates beasts and flying creatures so man can name them... then creates Eve...
That is:
19 Now Jehovah God was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call it, each living soul, that was its name. 20 So the man was calling the names of all the domestic animals and of the flying creatures of the heavens and of every wild beast of the field, but for man there was found no helper as a complement of him.
Well, I’ve already explained this on page 15 (2nd post – reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
(Hint – purposely left out v20 on that reply to prove a point)
But like I said, the key in understanding 2:19 is in the statement “was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens”. This simply means that all animals were formed from the ground and that Adam was given the task of naming them. That’s all; any other way of reading it will be incorrect (which evidently what you did).
Here’s NLT:
2:19 “So the LORD God formed from the ground all the wild animals and all the birds of the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and the man chose a name for each one.”
(ASV)
"And out of the ground Jehovah God formed every beast of the field, and every bird of the heavens; and brought them unto the man to see what he would call them: and whatsoever the man called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
For comparison of Gen 2:19, other translations puts it this way:
KJV
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.
© Info
NKJV
Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.
© Info
NLT
So the LORD God formed from the ground all the wild animals and all the birds of the sky. He brought them to the man* to see what he would call them, and the man chose a name for each one.
Footnote:
* Or Adam, and so throughout the chapter.
© Info
NIV
Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
© Info
ESV
Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed* every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
Footnote:
* Or And out of the ground the Lord God formed
© Info
NASB
Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the *sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
© Info
RSV
So out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
© Info
ASV
And out of the ground Jehovah God formed every beast of the field, and every bird of the heavens; and brought them unto the man to see what he would call them: and whatsoever the man called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
© Info
YLT
And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that [is] its name.
© Info
DBY
And out of the ground Jehovah Elohim had formed every animal of the field and all fowl of the heavens, and brought [them] to Man, to see what he would call them; and whatever Man called each living soul, that was its name.
© Info
WEB
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought [them] to Adam to see what he would call them; and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] its name.
© Info
NASB
Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the *sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
© Info
The rest as they say is history.
21 Hence Jehovah God had a deep sleep fall upon the man and, while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. 22 And Jehovah God proceeded to build the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman and to bring her to the man. 23 Then the man said: “This is at last bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh. This one will be called Woman, Because from man this one was taken.” 24 That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh. 25 And both of them continued to be naked, the man and his wife, and yet they did not become ashamed.” (Genesis 2:7-25)
Gen 3 tells the story of the fall of man from perfection and introduced sin, sickness, imperfection and finally death.
There u go…full explanation
Of course in the end NONE of these matters to you because you’ve already made up your mind on what to believe (a mumbo-jumbo) – pick n choose what will suit your pre-conceived ideas.'
=======
=======
If you can't counter what I said above then I'll move to prophecy as it's another strong area to show that INDEED the Bible IS the Word of God and IS an Infallible Guide.
Gen 3 is on page 20 - addressed to 'werewatchingyou man - who left the 'building'.
reply to post by edmc^2
You wrote:
["I'm not sure if you're just trolling or not because I've already addressed your post very extensively (page 19). In fact I've explained them verse by verse to avoid your claim that I "cheery-pick" things."]
Yes, and then I said: One step at a time; as I do now. First of all I question your understanding and use of standard logic, and secondly I believe you'll try to drown this ignorance (if it is the case) with an excess of semantic camouflage.
You don't really believe, that a reality-check consists of an avalanche of words?
Quote: ["Otherwise I say you're just trolling."]
Feel free to believe you are the referee. Actually the world is the referee, and all I'm doing is to profile your and my positions. Semantics against logic.
You wrote:
["I'm not sure if you're just trolling or not because I've already addressed your post very extensively (page 19). In fact I've explained them verse by verse to avoid your claim that I "cheery-pick" things."]
Yes, and then I said: One step at a time; as I do now. First of all I question your understanding and use of standard logic, and secondly I believe you'll try to drown this ignorance (if it is the case) with an excess of semantic camouflage.
You don't really believe, that a reality-check consists of an avalanche of words?
Quote: ["Otherwise I say you're just trolling."]
Feel free to believe you are the referee. Actually the world is the referee, and all I'm doing is to profile your and my positions. Semantics against logic.
edit on 11-8-2011 by bogomil because: one-word addition
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Thanks Lonewolf for the comment and the reminder.
As for the killing of Jews and Christians by religious extremists - sadly, it's happening both ways.
That's why as true followers of Jesus Christ we must remain neutral from the conflicts of the world and apply the Master's admonition to be "peaceable".
Remember:
Our fight is spiritual:
Thanks Lonewolf for the comment and the reminder.
As for the killing of Jews and Christians by religious extremists - sadly, it's happening both ways.
That's why as true followers of Jesus Christ we must remain neutral from the conflicts of the world and apply the Master's admonition to be "peaceable".
Remember:
“5 When he saw the crowds he went up into the mountain; and after he sat down his disciples came to him; 2 and he opened his mouth and began teaching them, saying:
3 “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them. 4 “Happy are those who mourn, since they will be comforted.
5 “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
6 “Happy are those hungering and thirsting for righteousness, since they will be filled.
7 “Happy are the merciful, since they will be shown mercy.
8 “Happy are the pure in heart, since they will see God.
9 “Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God.’
10 “Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.
11 “Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake.
12 Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.” (Matthew 5:1-12)
Our fight is spiritual:
“Finally, go on acquiring power in [the] Lord and in the mightiness of his strength. 11 Put on the complete suit of armor from God that YOU may be able to stand firm against the machinations of the Devil; 12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. 13 On this account take up the complete suit of armor from God, that YOU may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after YOU have done all things thoroughly, to stand firm.” (Ephesians 6:10-13)
reply to post by edmc^2
some things the bible is good for.....
-setting on fire
-tolite paper
-a beer coster
-using the pages as rolling papers
-throwing out the window of a moving car
-tossing into a trash can
-something to blow your nose with
-something to use as a seman rag
there are alot more but i dont feel like listing so much fun stuff you can do with that horrid dirbble. but its so much more fun finding out on your own.
also someone else posted this and i ask again......
the bible is not the olny or the oldest religous tome in the world. so why is it the holy book to be true and accurate??? why? your ignorant sir go lick yawhey's asshole
some things the bible is good for.....
-setting on fire
-tolite paper
-a beer coster
-using the pages as rolling papers
-throwing out the window of a moving car
-tossing into a trash can
-something to blow your nose with
-something to use as a seman rag
there are alot more but i dont feel like listing so much fun stuff you can do with that horrid dirbble. but its so much more fun finding out on your own.
also someone else posted this and i ask again......
the bible is not the olny or the oldest religous tome in the world. so why is it the holy book to be true and accurate??? why? your ignorant sir go lick yawhey's asshole
reply to post by Upthepunx
Your language is quite colourful, but it DOES express some sentiments christians would do well to listen to instead of living in the scholastics of some centuries back.
Your language is quite colourful, but it DOES express some sentiments christians would do well to listen to instead of living in the scholastics of some centuries back.
I couldn't help but notice a few problems inherent in Genesis, even from the 1st Creative day. Lets take a look, shall we?
You're correct in noting that God did not define "Day" as a 24 hour period, but as being a period of light. So we see that the "1st Day" began when God created light, as follows:
So God created light, and the division of light and darkness, and called light Day and darkness Night. But what is the initial light source? God hasn't created the sun or the stars yet, so where is this light coming from? This is the first gap in Genesis; light without a source.
What heavenly bodies? There were no heavenly bodies mentioned in Genesis 1:1. It states "God created the heavens and the Earth". God didn't make light sources until 1:14, and created light before its source. Thats like saying the Earth existed before God.
And even though there was no light source, Genesis 1:5 concludes with "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." So what happened? God said "let there be light", there was a flash, God said 'Yes this is good I like this' and light went away, and he called that the 1st day. So by our reckoning, the 1st day must have been less than a second long.
This doesn't make sense to me... Lets put an open space to divide water from other water and call it Heaven...wait didn't God already make the Heavens in the beginning? And what does it mean dividing water from water? And again this day/night cycle, which God defines essentially as changing from light to dark and back to light, without a light source...why does God keep turning the lights off? I'm so confused it warrants using a smiley:
I choose not to quote your explanation because it lacks sense and logic.
Hmm, maybe because it doesn't make sense in the first place?
God has a pretty awkward way of talking. Why not say "Let the lands rise from the waters?" The oceans aren't exactly all in one place, if you take into accound lakes, seas, oceans, rivers.
So now God calls the dry land Earth, but doesn't the Earth include the water? It's all packaged together in one neat little geoid.
And grass? Vegitation? Fruit trees? You mentioned yourself that Photosynthesis is necessary for these things to survive, but God still hasn't created a light source! How are these things coming to be?
But there is no Sun yet! God waits another day to create it, and yet these plants are growing without a light source! And why does God make no mention of micro-organisms? Surely simple single-celled organisms existed long before complex multicellular plants.
Four Days Later, God Creates Night and Day!
How can this book possibly make any sense? My schizophrenic ex-step-brother could have written this! In fact, he probably would have done a better job of it.
I like how, at this point once actual days/nights exist, you make a point of capslocking the word 'DAY'. In the bible, it clearly states that there was evening, then morning-the 5th Day. Evening meaning light turned into darkness, morning meaning darkness turning back into light. This clearly refers to the movement of the Sun.
I'll leave it at that for now, I have work to do. If you have a decent response for me, we can go on to debate the other descrepancies. If not, I will consider it proven that the Bible is not the infallible word of God. Have a nice day.
Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by bogomil
The 1st Creative “Day”
(Note: the creative “Day” – is not a literal 24 hr day but spans thousands of years as indicated by the Bible Chronology)
You're correct in noting that God did not define "Day" as a 24 hour period, but as being a period of light. So we see that the "1st Day" began when God created light, as follows:
Gen 1:3 --
3 And God proceeded to say: “Let light come to be”* Then there came to be light. 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God brought about a division between the light and the darkness. 5 And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day. -- Gen 1: 3-5
So God created light, and the division of light and darkness, and called light Day and darkness Night. But what is the initial light source? God hasn't created the sun or the stars yet, so where is this light coming from? This is the first gap in Genesis; light without a source.
At this stage of the 1st Creative Day when God’s power (spirit) was “moving to and fro over the surface of the waters”, it did something to the dark “watery deep” since “light” from heavenly bodies mentioned in Gen 1:1 (sun, moon, stars) became visible on the earth – “there came to light”.
What heavenly bodies? There were no heavenly bodies mentioned in Genesis 1:1. It states "God created the heavens and the Earth". God didn't make light sources until 1:14, and created light before its source. Thats like saying the Earth existed before God.
And even though there was no light source, Genesis 1:5 concludes with "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." So what happened? God said "let there be light", there was a flash, God said 'Yes this is good I like this' and light went away, and he called that the 1st day. So by our reckoning, the 1st day must have been less than a second long.
Next stage: The 2nd Creative Day
6 And God went on to say: “Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.” 7 Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. 8 And God began to call the expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day. – Gen 1:6-8
This doesn't make sense to me... Lets put an open space to divide water from other water and call it Heaven...wait didn't God already make the Heavens in the beginning? And what does it mean dividing water from water? And again this day/night cycle, which God defines essentially as changing from light to dark and back to light, without a light source...why does God keep turning the lights off? I'm so confused it warrants using a smiley:
I choose not to quote your explanation because it lacks sense and logic.
#the Bible is silent as to how the “expanse” was created.
Hmm, maybe because it doesn't make sense in the first place?
Next stage: The 3rd Creative Day
9 And God went on to say: “Let the waters under the heavens be brought together into one place and let the dry land appear.” And it came to be so.
God has a pretty awkward way of talking. Why not say "Let the lands rise from the waters?" The oceans aren't exactly all in one place, if you take into accound lakes, seas, oceans, rivers.
10 And God began calling the dry land Earth, but the bringing together of the waters he called Seas. Further, God saw that [it was] good. 11 And God went on to say: “Let the earth cause grass to shoot forth, vegetation bearing seed, fruit trees yielding fruit according to their kinds, the seed of which is in it, upon the earth.” And it came to be so. 12 And the earth began to put forth grass, vegetation bearing seed according to its kind and trees yielding fruit, the seed of which is in it according to its kind. Then God saw that [it was] good. 13 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a third day. – Gen 1:9-13
So now God calls the dry land Earth, but doesn't the Earth include the water? It's all packaged together in one neat little geoid.
And grass? Vegitation? Fruit trees? You mentioned yourself that Photosynthesis is necessary for these things to survive, but God still hasn't created a light source! How are these things coming to be?
Also at this stage the 3rd Creative Day – after “dry land” appeared plant / tree life of every kind began to grow – courtesy of photosynthesis from the sun now shining through the “water above the expanse”.
Interestingly, due to this ‘water canopy’ that enveloped the earth – climate at all regions was the same. Archeology confirmed this to be so when they discovered underneath the ice sheets plant and animal life that normally grow and live on warm regions of the earth today.
But there is no Sun yet! God waits another day to create it, and yet these plants are growing without a light source! And why does God make no mention of micro-organisms? Surely simple single-celled organisms existed long before complex multicellular plants.
Next stage: The 4th Creative Day
14 And God went on to say: “Let luminaries come to be in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night; and they must serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years. 15 And they must serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” And it came to be so. 16 And God proceeded to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars. 17 Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth, 18 and to dominate by day and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness. Then God saw that [it was] good. 19 And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fourth day. – Gen 1:14-19
Four Days Later, God Creates Night and Day!
How can this book possibly make any sense? My schizophrenic ex-step-brother could have written this! In fact, he probably would have done a better job of it.
Next stage: The 5th creative 'DAY'
I like how, at this point once actual days/nights exist, you make a point of capslocking the word 'DAY'. In the bible, it clearly states that there was evening, then morning-the 5th Day. Evening meaning light turned into darkness, morning meaning darkness turning back into light. This clearly refers to the movement of the Sun.
I'll leave it at that for now, I have work to do. If you have a decent response for me, we can go on to debate the other descrepancies. If not, I will consider it proven that the Bible is not the infallible word of God. Have a nice day.
edit on 11-8-2011 by Glass because: (no reason
given)
reply to post by Glass
I look forward to the answer to you with no little anticipation. Sofar my own experience on this thread has been, that it's like reading a manual translated from korean to english,.... translated by a person who really doesn't master any of the languages;.... and in any case you'll eventually discover, that your manual is to another model than the one you bought.
I look forward to the answer to you with no little anticipation. Sofar my own experience on this thread has been, that it's like reading a manual translated from korean to english,.... translated by a person who really doesn't master any of the languages;.... and in any case you'll eventually discover, that your manual is to another model than the one you bought.
reply to post by edmc^2
Apparently happy means blessed.... I didn't know they were the same word.
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Apparently happy means blessed.... I didn't know they were the same word.
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
reply to post by Akragon
bless·ed /ˈblɛsɪd; especially for 3, 7 blɛst/
1. consecrated; sacred; holy; sanctified: the Blessed Sacrament.
2. worthy of adoration, reverence, or worship: the Blessed Trinity.
3. divinely or supremely favored; fortunate: to be blessed with a strong, healthy body; blessed with an ability to find friends.
4. blissfully happy or contented.
5. Roman Catholic Church . beatified.
I would say the definition that best applies here would be 2: worthy of adoration.
"Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted" is kind of like saying "be kind to those that mourn and comfort them" except without being a command. Jesus was cool like that.
bless·ed /ˈblɛsɪd; especially for 3, 7 blɛst/
1. consecrated; sacred; holy; sanctified: the Blessed Sacrament.
2. worthy of adoration, reverence, or worship: the Blessed Trinity.
3. divinely or supremely favored; fortunate: to be blessed with a strong, healthy body; blessed with an ability to find friends.
4. blissfully happy or contented.
5. Roman Catholic Church . beatified.
I would say the definition that best applies here would be 2: worthy of adoration.
"Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted" is kind of like saying "be kind to those that mourn and comfort them" except without being a command. Jesus was cool like that.
Originally posted by edmc^2
Originally posted by caladonea
Originally posted by mileysubet
This must require a belief in the bible in the first place....
The Bible is written by men....who say...that God told them to say...what they have said.
back...
I assume you did not read the past posts - so here they are again:
Here's what the Bible writers said:
2Pe 1:20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet's own understanding, [fn]
2Pe 1:21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.
"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." -- 2 Tim 3:16, 17
Or these (and many more)
Rev 1:10 It was the Lord's Day, and I was worshiping in the Spirit. [fn] Suddenly, I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet blast.
Rev 1:11 It said, "Write in a book [fn] everything you see, and send it to the seven churches in the cities of Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea."
-- NLT
For those who keep saying circular resoning - using the Bible to confirm that it's the Word of God - will you accept then it if ALL Christians in the world say that it is?
(2 Timothy 3:16,17) that is what many believe....but a man wrote those words....dosen't mean they are true.
reply to post by caladonea
We're dealing with a rather confused individual here hun...
He doesn't realize God didn't write the bible.... And inspired doesn't mean "garenteed written by God"
Notice in his replies, he skips most of the questions asked... and only answers the ones he's been trained to answer with his own proofs.
Opinion doesn't equate to proof... but apparently he believes it does...
We're dealing with a rather confused individual here hun...
He doesn't realize God didn't write the bible.... And inspired doesn't mean "garenteed written by God"
Notice in his replies, he skips most of the questions asked... and only answers the ones he's been trained to answer with his own proofs.
Opinion doesn't equate to proof... but apparently he believes it does...
reply to post by caladonea
Contrary to common (mis)understanding, objective procedure is not run on popular voting.
(This is not a criticism of your comment, but adressed to you, as your post contained the association-point).
Contrary to common (mis)understanding, objective procedure is not run on popular voting.
(This is not a criticism of your comment, but adressed to you, as your post contained the association-point).
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A Personal Cigar UFO/UAP Video footage I have held onto and will release it here and now.
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African "Newcomers" Tell NYC They Don't Like the Free Food or Shelter They've Been Given
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911 emergency lines are DOWN across multiple states
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Former NYT Reporter Attacks Scientists For Misleading Him Over COVID Lab-Leak Theory
Education and Media: 7 hours ago, 4 flags
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