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Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by Akragon
Unfortunatly my friend, the ONLY people that believe the NWT is the most accurate translation that exists, are people from your own church and no one else...
If we're talking about biblical scholars, or even your every day person that reads the bible... again the only people that agree with that statement are those from your flock...
Mormons believe they're version is the most accurate, muslims believe theirs is, christians believe theirs is...
JW's are no different then the rest of the religions competeing for "who is more correct"
Here are just sample of comments made by scholars who evaluated the NWT.
“The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing.”—The Differentiator (Hebrew and Greek scholar Alexander Thomson).
Professor Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, said:
“In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible.”
The Andover Newton Quarterly of January 1963.
“The translation of the New Testament is evidence of the presence in the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many problems of Biblical translation.”
But of course none of these comments from "experts" will matter if the New World Translation Bible is not able to stand under such intense scrutiny.
In fact many well recognized translations will not be able to stand if subjected to such intense sruitiny as the NWT was subjected to and is still being subjected to (year in year out).
As they say "proof is in the pudding".
(Note: the translator committees are not inspired by God or infallible - as such there's NO such thing as "Perfect Translation" or else there will be no need for revisions. As we increase our knowledge and understanding of the original Biblical words - thus revision is a norm - as long as the original intent of the words are preserved and a clearer meaning is achieved.)
For example - replacing God's Holy Name YHWH/YHVH/JHVH (Yahweh/Jehovah) with LORD changes the meaning of the name and muddies the intent of word. Or replacing the Hebrew word Sheol / Hades / Gehenna with "hell" changes the meaning of the word and introduces unscriptural traditions of men.
Here's just one example of the superiority of the NWT:
KJV - Psa 110:1 -
[[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Which LORD said unto which Lord?
NWT
“Of David. A melody. 110 The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”” (Psalm110:1)
So are you prepared to subject the KJV Bible to same criticism as the NWT was subjected to?
later...
Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Akragon
It's tempting isn't it? This using bible-citations as missiles.
I'm so glad, that my lack of competence in this area prevents me from joining to any greater extent.
Please don't. This thread is as almost as good as listening to Spike Jones or looking at South Park.
Alright man believe whatever you like... either way this isn't about which translation is the best, ...
its about your claim of the bible(s) being Gods infallible word.... I presented you with a few of the many passages where "God" not only condones murder and slavery, he commands it. Not to mention how "God" says you should stone your stuburn child, and of course the usual "kill homosexuals" thing. I'll be waiting for your response.... Is that still Gods word, and if so.... Do you have a child, and have you stoned him recently?
Kill your stuborn child...
18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
“In fact, the patriarch’s absolute power over life and death of the members of his family included the right to decide at the time a child was born to him whether to let it live or to condemn it to die. We know from historical documents . . . from pre-Islamic times down to the nineteenth century that often a father decided to put to death a daughter either immediately upon her birth or at a later date. The usual method of putting a newborn daughter to death was to bury her alive in the sands of the desert.”—Family, Love and the Bible, p. 122.
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by bogomil
Please don't. This thread is as almost as good as listening to Spike Jones or looking at South Park.
ROFLMAO!!!!
Thanks man i needed a good laugh...
I've delt with JW's on many occasions so i know exactly what to expect, though at times people can supprise you.
Ye never know what he might come up with eh... Perhaps i overlooked some passage that said something along the lines of... "ooops, don't be nasty to those people i was just kidding"
-signed God-
Though i have my doubts
edit on 9-8-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
“...know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.”” (2 Peter 3:3-4)
Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Akragon
It's tempting isn't it? This using bible-citations as missiles.
I'm so glad, that my lack of competence in this area prevents me from joining to any greater extent.
“. . .“Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”” (Matthew 24:3)
“. . .“For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:7-8)
“. . .for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.” (Matthew 24:21-22)
“. . .And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14)
“...know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.”” (2 Peter 3:3-4)
I thought you wanted to know why the NWT is the best translation out there?
So I answered your Q. And as you can see it's not just my words but the testimony of others.
You've concluded this without even investigating why the command was given? You've judged God's word with your misconceptions? Why I'm not surprise!
Here's the explanation.
But first let's clarify something that you've didn't bother to look at.
That is - the "child" that your referring to here is not a child at all.
1) v20: the "child" is both "a glutton, and a drunkard". By referring to their son of as a "glutton, and a drunkard" it means that the "child" is an adult - a man not a "child". For how can a "child" be "a glutton, and a drunkard"?
2) This man is also a "stubborn and rebellious son" who "will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:"
This shows that this "glutton, and a drunkard" of a son doesn't respect his parents. And there's no doubt that his parents had done all they could to reform him - this their adult ""a glutton, and a drunkard" son but with no success. Thus as part of the community, these Israelite parents had a responsibility to seek help in order to maintain and abide by the laws given to the nation because they know that INTENTIONAL violation of the law is punishable by death.
So what did they do next? They "bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place".
Was this "stubborn and rebellious".. "glutton, and a drunkard" of a man condemned right away?
No, but rather mercy was shown to this "stubborn and rebellious son" who is both "glutton, and a drunkard" by affording him with a hearing. Sadly after looking at the matter, the man was still rebellious and will not listen even to the "elders of the city", so the only thing left for the community to do is to obey the law:
That is "so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."
Was this "stubborn and rebellious".. "glutton, and a drunkard" of a man condemned right away?
No, but rather mercy was shown to this "stubborn and rebellious son" who is both "glutton, and a drunkard" by affording him with a hearing.
19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Now let's compare how punishment is delivered by other nations during the Patriarchal period and see which one is a just standard.
Here's a comparison of how justice was delivered during the Patriarchal period in the Middle East:
The author of the book Family, Love and the Bible said:
...
blah blah blah
..
.
.
So which law do you think is just and which one is cruel?
The law given to Moses and the nation of Israel - no doubt is a just standard since the accused is given the opportunity to change his ways. The penalty is not handed down by one person but by the community "elders". A trial or hearing is afforded the accused - only when it's determined that the accused will not change then the penalty is implemented.
The rest of the scriptures you've provided when examined carefully will also show the same situation - God's laws are just even for the guilty.
But since you're morality is not governed by God's moral code of conduct then of course you'll have a different POV just like people who doesn't have love for God and disregard his laws.
SO again - the Word Of God is NEVER mistaken - try as may to disprove this - you will only fail and in the end you'll have no choice but to accept it or ignore it at your detriment.
Time is running out!!
Originally posted by edmc^2
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by bogomil
Please don't. This thread is as almost as good as listening to Spike Jones or looking at South Park.
ROFLMAO!!!!
Thanks man i needed a good laugh...
I've delt with JW's on many occasions so i know exactly what to expect, though at times people can supprise you.
Ye never know what he might come up with eh... Perhaps i overlooked some passage that said something along the lines of... "ooops, don't be nasty to those people i was just kidding"
-signed God-
Though i have my doubts
edit on 9-8-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
Laugh all you want but:
“...know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.”” (2 Peter 3:3-4)
you're fulfilling this very prophecy!!
Originally posted by edmc^2
Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Akragon
It's tempting isn't it? This using bible-citations as missiles.
I'm so glad, that my lack of competence in this area prevents me from joining to any greater extent.
By all means - launch all the missiles and I'll show you that they are just mere poppers - duds.
Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by bogomil
Now since you're so confident in portraying yourself as an expert when it comes to the Bible - it's now my turn to ask a very simple question.
Why did God give the Laws (600 including the 10 commandments) to the Nation of Israel?
I look forward to you clear explanation.
later...
Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by bogomil
it looks like bible supports your diagnosis
bible god made Adam in his own image and according to the story Adam didn’t know right from wrong - so the implication is bible god also doesn’t know right from wrong
And bible god gets upset after Adam learns right from wrong
Very interesting case study the bible god character