Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Why God's Word The Bible IS Infallible!

page: 17
14
<< 14  15  16    18  19  20 >>

log in

join

posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 06:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by edmc^2

Isn't you whose the one doing the "contextual acrobatics"? By not considering the context, surrounding verses and related text when reading Gen. 1:24-26 vs Gen. 2:7 and gen. 2:19 you came to the wrong conclusion.
edit on 29-7-2011 by edmc^2 because: add quote


I do consider the context of all surrounding verses... I just don't make them say things they aren't saying...

It is very clear that in the second story God creates man then creates beast for man to name... then creates woman....

In the first story that chain of events happens in different order...

This is because they aren't written by the same man...




posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 06:51 PM
link   
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 





The bible does not interpret itself.... Man interprets the bible and some of them twist certain verses to invent a context and call it the bible interpreting itself.... I call it dillusion...


You have much to learn my friend.

If you say that "The bible does not interpret itself.":

Then by all means - please explain to me the meaning of the Lord Jesus' illustrations without using the Bible.

Here's one: (this one is easier)


““. . .Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”” (Matthew 13:24-30)


Remember - context, surrounding verses and related text.

This related to understanding Genesis - which by itself is already self explanatory.


edit on 29-7-2011 by edmc^2 because: changed parable to an easy one



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 07:12 PM
link   
reply to post by edmc^2
 


See, that's what I told you. You don't stay on any issue more than a few posts, and then poooof.... off in another direction.

Take a deep breath and FOCUS.



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 07:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by edmc^2
 


See, that's what I told you. You don't stay on any issue more than a few posts, and then poooof.... off in another direction.

Take a deep breath and FOCUS.



Like I said - the Bible interprets itself.
The illustration that I just provided shows this to true - try explaining it when you have time without using Jesus' own explanation.

And like I said -
This is related to understanding Genesis - which by itself is already self explanatory. So I'm focus.

As for your statement below - no contradiction there also.




It is very clear that in the second story God creates man then creates beast for man to name... then creates woman....


... to be precise:

the Bible says:


“. . .Hence Jehovah God had a deep sleep fall upon the man and, while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. And Jehovah God proceeded to build the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman and to bring her to the man.” (Genesis 2:21-22)




Gen 2: starting at v4 shows that God indeed created man from the "dust of the ground" followed by the woman. The same thing with the animal kind - they were all created from the ground.

Gen 1 give's the sequence of creation events. No contradiction there also - you see the contradiction because you're not really considering what you're reading.

remember the text - the meaning of text.



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 07:29 PM
link   
reply to post by edmc^2
 


aaaaahhhh the old bait and switch... c'mon man.... you've proven you don't even understand the context of a simple phrase like "the bible doesn't interpret itself" in relation to our discussion... you then twist it into a completely different context into which it doesn't apply to try to prove your point....

I know the JW interpretation of this parable frontwards and backwards.... in fact I know all of what you believe as well or maybe even better than you do... It just doesn't make sense to me from an objective viewpoint... and trust me I tried...

However the fact stands that in relation to Genesis 1 and 2 you have to invent a context which isn't there...



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 07:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by wearewatchingyouman
reply to post by edmc^2
 


aaaaahhhh the old bait and switch... c'mon man.... you've proven you don't even understand the context of a simple phrase like "the bible doesn't interpret itself" in relation to our discussion... you then twist it into a completely different context into which it doesn't apply to try to prove your point....

I know the JW interpretation of this parable frontwards and backwards.... in fact I know all of what you believe as well or maybe even better than you do... It just doesn't make sense to me from an objective viewpoint... and trust me I tried...

However the fact stands that in relation to Genesis 1 and 2 you have to invent a context which isn't there...



Stick to the Bible - doesn't matter what I believe for if it's not founded on the infallible word of God then we get into trouble.

So back to my Q to you:

So is it correct then to read the context, surrounding verses and related text when reading Gen. 1:24-26
Gen. 2:7 and gen. 2:19?



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 07:42 PM
link   
reply to post by edmc^2
 


so I'll ask you... is it right to take two different stories meant to give an overall representation of the hebrew beliefs at the time ... stick them in a book and try to make it seem like one story told by one man in order to centralize control?



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 07:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by wearewatchingyouman
reply to post by edmc^2
 


so I'll ask you... is it right to take two different stories meant to give an overall representation of the hebrew beliefs at the time ... stick them in a book and try to make it seem like one story told by one man in order to centralize control?



Are we still in Genesis - is this another topic?

focus...

anyway - if you're reffering to Gen 1 and 2, no they are not two different stories - they are one and the same story - the story of Creation.

You are confused because you're separating them.

Like I said - Gen 1:2 - 2:3 talks about the sequence of creation events while Gen 2:4-25 is the story of mans creation and his activities. Additional detail was provided here by the writer Moses.

Btw - Moses is indeed the Writer of Genesis along with the rest of the Pentateuch - the Jews believed this to be so - Torah.

so back to my Q:

So is it correct then to read the context, surrounding verses and related text when reading Gen. 1:24-26
Gen. 2:7 and gen. 2:19?

later...dude
edit on 29-7-2011 by edmc^2 because: expand



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 08:04 PM
link   
reply to post by edmc^2
 


that'd be Genesis I was referring to... and the exact verses we've been referencing...

and no not all Jews give credit to Moses for the Torah... More of your dogma spilling over... in fact the Jews disagree more than the Christians do about their book...

The fact of the matter is the consensus of most modern scholars, both Jewish and Christian, is that there are four documents combines to make Torah...

These are called the Jahwist, Priestly, Elohist and Deuteronomist....

The first creation account is credited to the Priestly source while the second account is credited to the Jahwist....


edit on 29-7-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: add



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 12:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by wearewatchingyouman
reply to post by edmc^2
 


that'd be Genesis I was referring to... and the exact verses we've been referencing...

and no not all Jews give credit to Moses for the Torah... More of your dogma spilling over... in fact the Jews disagree more than the Christians do about their book...

The fact of the matter is the consensus of most modern scholars, both Jewish and Christian, is that there are four documents combines to make Torah...

These are called the Jahwist, Priestly, Elohist and Deuteronomist....

The first creation account is credited to the Priestly source while the second account is credited to the Jahwist....


edit on 29-7-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: add


And your source for this information is what? - The Documentary Theory? - of course.

Thing is this theory has been debunk and is so weak when studied carefully.

Notice:


“The Documentary Theory is built up on assertions which are either arbitrary or absolutely false. . . . If the extreme Documentary Theory were true, the Israelites would have been the victims of a clumsy deception when they permitted the heavy burden of the Law to be imposed upon them. It would have been the greatest hoax ever perpetrated in the history of the world.” -- Introduction to the Bible, by John Laux,



I on the other hand - my main source of information is the Infallible Word of God The Bible supported by widely recognized Jewish traditions and writings.

The fact that Genesis is the First Book of the Torah - indicates that it IS WIDELY accepted as part of the Pentateuch.

Info on the Torah: (here's a short one - quick google search)


"The Torah is also known as the Chumash, Pentateuch or Five Books of Moses."


www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...


They say the proof is in the pudding so - here are just some of the statements made by Moses the writer of the Pentateuch - The Five Rolls (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy).

He said:

Exodus (ASV)




Exd 17:14 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

“Exd 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of Jehovah, and all the ordinances: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which Jehovah hath spoken will we do.

Exd 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of Jehovah, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the mount, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.


Leviticus (YLT):


Lev 27:34 These [are] the commands which Jehovah hath commanded Moses for the sons of Israel, in mount Sinai.



Numbers (YLT)


Num 33:2 and Moses writeth their outgoings, by their journeys, by the command of Jehovah; and these [are] their journeys, by their outgoings:


Deuteronomy: (DBY)


Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had ended writing the words of this law in a book, until their conclusion,


Deu 31:25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, saying,


Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it at the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee;


The successor of Moses recognize him as the writer of the Pentateuch - “The book of the law of Moses,” or "the book of Moses"
- Joshua said:


““And YOU must be very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses by never turning away from it to the right or to the left,” (Joshua 23:6)


Ezra - the compiler of the majority of the Hebrew scriptures said:


“And they appointed the priests in their classes and the Levites in their divisions, for the service of God which is in Jerusalem, according to the prescription of the book of Moses.” (Ezra 6:18)


History also shows that the 39 Hebrew Scriptures (OT) was accepted by the Jews:

The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, of the first century C.E., in his work Against Apion (I, 38-41 [8])



“We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time. Of these, five are the books of Moses, comprising the laws and the traditional history from the birth of man down to the death of the lawgiver. . . . From the death of Moses until Artaxerxes, who succeeded Xerxes as king of Persia, the prophets subsequent to Moses wrote the history of the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.”


So care to elaborate your "Documentary Theory"? And compare it with the accuracy of the Bible?

Just like your "Documentary Theory" - your understanding of the Genesis account is HIGHLY INACCURATE, what's more it's base on mistaken assumptions.
edit on 30-7-2011 by edmc^2 because: spell



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 02:41 AM
link   
reply to post by edmc^2
 


You wrote:

["Gen 2: starting at v4 shows that God indeed created man from the "dust of the ground" followed by the woman. The same thing with the animal kind - they were all created from the ground."]

Only that this has nothing to do with what we're talking about. It's the time-sequence, not the material, being the issue.

Quote: ["Gen 1 give's the sequence of creation events. No contradiction there also - you see the contradiction because you're not really considering what you're reading."]

Both 1 and 2 give specific time-sequences. Can you precisely show where there is anything changing those time-sequences.

Quote: ["remember the text - the meaning of text."]

According to which 'meaning-methodology'? Preferably a methodology accessible outside your head.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 10:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by edmc^2

And your source for this information is what? - The Documentary Theory? - of course.


To put it simply... more or less, yes... there are some flaws that I find with the hypothesis, but overall, as a basis, it's better than anything else that has been presented...


Thing is this theory has been debunk and is so weak when studied carefully.


yes, it is true that there have been many attemts to debunk the hypothesis, but it is still considered much, much stronger than the theory that Moses wrote the entire Torah...


Notice:


“The Documentary Theory is built up on assertions which are either arbitrary or absolutely false. . . . If the extreme Documentary Theory were true, the Israelites would have been the victims of a clumsy deception when they permitted the heavy burden of the Law to be imposed upon them. It would have been the greatest hoax ever perpetrated in the history of the world.” -- Introduction to the Bible, by John Laux,


... don't try and use FR John Laux as a credible source for your argument.... it will get you into big trouble later on down the road.... I love how you guys try and cherry pick people's work to prove your point.... and dismiss the large body which is contrary to your dogma...



I on the other hand - my main source of information is the Infallible Word of God The Bible supported by widely recognized Jewish traditions and writings.

The fact that Genesis is the First Book of the Torah - indicates that it IS WIDELY accepted as part of the Pentateuch.

Info on the Torah: (here's a short one - quick google search)


"The Torah is also known as the Chumash, Pentateuch or Five Books of Moses."


www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...



what is the point of this exactly? I'm well aware of the different names for Torah.... The fact of the matter is there is no magical "this is what the Jews believe" card... Their beliefs are as varied as Christians... if not more so....



They say the proof is in the pudding so - here are just some of the statements made by Moses the writer of the Pentateuch - The Five Rolls (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy).

He said:

Exodus (ASV)




Exd 17:14 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

“Exd 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of Jehovah, and all the ordinances: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which Jehovah hath spoken will we do.

Exd 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of Jehovah, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the mount, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.


Leviticus (YLT):


Lev 27:34 These [are] the commands which Jehovah hath commanded Moses for the sons of Israel, in mount Sinai.



Numbers (YLT)


Num 33:2 and Moses writeth their outgoings, by their journeys, by the command of Jehovah; and these [are] their journeys, by their outgoings:


Deuteronomy: (DBY)


Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had ended writing the words of this law in a book, until their conclusion,


Deu 31:25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, saying,


Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it at the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee;


The successor of Moses recognize him as the writer of the Pentateuch - “The book of the law of Moses,” or "the book of Moses"
- Joshua said:


““And YOU must be very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses by never turning away from it to the right or to the left,” (Joshua 23:6)


Ezra - the compiler of the majority of the Hebrew scriptures said:


“And they appointed the priests in their classes and the Levites in their divisions, for the service of God which is in Jerusalem, according to the prescription of the book of Moses.” (Ezra 6:18)


I am of the opinion that there was a core book scribed by Moses, which he cobbled together from different sources that he had access to in Egypt, but that there were additions made by different writers and editors overtime... so I fail to see how any of this proves whatever point you are trying to make...


History also shows that the 39 Hebrew Scriptures (OT) was accepted by the Jews:

The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, of the first century C.E., in his work Against Apion (I, 38-41 [8])



“We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time. Of these, five are the books of Moses, comprising the laws and the traditional history from the birth of man down to the death of the lawgiver. . . . From the death of Moses until Artaxerxes, who succeeded Xerxes as king of Persia, the prophets subsequent to Moses wrote the history of the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.”


Of course Torah was accepted by the Jews.... This doesn't mean that changes weren't made,within the Temple, to it overtime as politics and views changed...


So care to elaborate your "Documentary Theory"? And compare it with the accuracy of the Bible?

Just like your "Documentary Theory" - your understanding of the Genesis account is HIGHLY INACCURATE, what's more it's base on mistaken assumptions.


I've already done so... we could go in circles for the next hundred years.... your viewpoint is subjective to your dogma which causes a blindness to see obvious contradictions in something you call infallible...

mine on the other hand is objective...

we look at it in two different ways...

some people look at the sun and see nothing but a beautiful giver of life... some look at it as a cancer causing devil which burns them... I try to see what is in between...

edit on 30-7-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: clarity



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 11:13 AM
link   
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 

I am of the opinion that there was a core book scribed by Moses, which he cobbled together from different sources that he had access to in Egypt, but that there were additions made by different writers and editors overtime... so I fail to see how any of this proves whatever point you are trying to make...
Do you have evidence that Moses was able to write in a way that would be intelligible to Canaanites after he wrote whatever you believe he wrote?
edit on 30-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 11:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 

I am of the opinion that there was a core book scribed by Moses, which he cobbled together from different sources that he had access to in Egypt, but that there were additions made by different writers and editors overtime... so I fail to see how any of this proves whatever point you are trying to make...
Do you have evidence that Moses was able to write in a way that would be intelligible to Canaanites after he wrote whatever you believe he wrote?
edit on 30-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


could you please elaborate on what you are implying and where you are going with this... it will dictate how I respond... thanks...

and also... thank you for defending me a couple pages back...



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 11:49 AM
link   
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 
You should not have any problem if in fact you have a theory worked out to explain the mechanics of how these things came to be.
Moses was Egyptian, the OT was supposedly Hebrew. What language did he write in and what language did the people of Canaan read in?



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 12:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 
You should not have any problem if in fact you have a theory worked out to explain the mechanics of how these things came to be.
Moses was Egyptian, the OT was supposedly Hebrew. What language did he write in and what language did the people of Canaan read in?




I don't have a problem per se... There are just a couple different ways to answer your question...

Moses grew up in the house of Pharaoh so he spoke Egyptian.... Moses probably also learned the language of Canaan, because there was a lot of commerce in that part of the world.... Most of the commerce with Mesopotamia, out of Egypt, went right through Canaan, so there was a need for speaking the language of Canaan for diplomacy and commerce.... I think it's highly likely that Moses learned the language of Canaan, which by that time might have been what you and I now know as some early form of Hebrew i.e proto-Hebrew, Proto- canaanite or a form of Accadian ....

When Moses was in exile in the land of Median, it's highly likely that the language of Canaan, was the language of that country....

It would also be the language of the Israelites who left Canaan to come to Egypt in the time of Joseph, during the famine..... so when Moses came back to Egypt, he could communicate with the Israelites in their language....

As far as what he wrote it in... I am of the opinion it could have been Egyptian Hyroglyphs or Accadian Cunneiform.... As Paul said he was(something to the effect of) "well versed in the teachings of the Egyptians".... I suppose it's possible that he later wrote them down in some early form of Hebrew script, but I think this is unlikely... There were probably very few Canaanites who could actually read what he wrote when he wrote it... It was most likely translated into a form of what we now know as Hebrew script by later contributors to what we now know as Torah....


edit on 30-7-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: clarity
edit on 30-7-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: funny fingers
edit on 30-7-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: funny fingers



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 03:02 PM
link   
sorry, I meant Akkadian and probably some akkadian canaano hybrid as far as that goes.... I knew it didn't look right when I posted it....



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 03:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 
You should not have any problem if in fact you have a theory worked out to explain the mechanics of how these things came to be.
Moses was Egyptian, the OT was supposedly Hebrew. What language did he write in and what language did the people of Canaan read in?




Correction is warranted here - again if we don't put into consideration what the Bible is saying that's where we get into trouble.


Of course many (especially critics) say that Moses was Egyptian because he was adopted by Pharaoh's daughter - but Moses never forgot his heritage. He knew from his heart and mind that he IS/WAS a Hebrew.

A fact many tend to forget or ignore:

Just by a quick reading of the books that he wrote will confirm this!

Notice:

Who took care and nursed him while growing up?

Answer: his God fearing Hebrew mother!


“After a while Phar′aoh’s daughter came down to bathe in the Nile River, and her female attendants were walking by the side of the Nile River. And she caught sight of the ark in the middle of the reeds. Immediately she sent her slave girl that she might get it. When she opened it she got to see the child, and here the boy was weeping. At that she felt compassion for him, although she said: “This is one of the children of the Hebrews.” Then his sister said to Phar′aoh’s daughter: “Shall I go and specially call for you a nursing woman from the Hebrew women that she may nurse the child for you?” So Phar′aoh’s daughter said to her: “Go!” At once the maiden went and called the child’s mother. Phar′aoh’s daughter then said to her: “Take this child with you and nurse him for me, and I myself shall give you your wages.” Accordingly the woman took the child and nursed him. And the child grew up. Then she brought him to Phar′aoh’s daughter, so that he became a son to her; and she proceeded to call his name Moses and to say: “It is because I have drawn him out of the water.”” (Exodus 2:5-10)


What mother who takes care of her own son will not teach him who he is while under her care - especially a Godly woman/mother like Jochebed?

Jochebed evidently instilled in her son Moses her own heritage - that is, a Hebrew, because of this Moses knew who his real brothers are/were.

Notice again:


“Now it came about in those days, as Moses was becoming strong, that he went out to his brothers that he might look at the burdens they were bearing; and he caught sight of a certain Egyptian striking a certain Hebrew of his brothers.” (Exodus 2:11)



Later on when he was called by God he was reminded of who he was talking with:

Notice:


“And he went on to say: “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” Then Moses concealed his face, because he was afraid to look at the [true] God.” (Exodus 3:6)



So to say that Moses was Egyptian is only 1/3 truth for he wholeheartedly knew who he was - a worshiper of the Hebrew God YHWH (Jehovah / Yahweh).

In fact the scripture say that inspite of the power afforded to him as an adopted son of Pharaoh's daughter he wholeheartedly rejected all of them and became a sheep herder / choose to be ill-treated.

Notice here -


“Consequently Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians. In fact, he was powerful in his words and deeds.” (Acts 7:22)


and here -


“By faith Moses, when grown up, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Phar′aoh, choosing to be ill-treated with the people of God rather than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin,” (Hebrews 11:24-25)


Thus because of his background God choose him to led Israel out of Egypt.


if you're up for it read Exodus 3:1–4:20.

Deliverance From Egypt - Exodus, chapters 5-13.


Again - the written word of God is NEVER wrong - the information contained therein are ALL trustworthy and 100% reliable - thus Infallible!

Any man made hypothesis or theories based on human philosophy that is put against it will ultimately fail.

--- that's all I got to say 'bout that.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 03:29 PM
link   
reply to post by edmc^2
 




Again - the written word of God is NEVER wrong - the information contained therein are ALL trustworthy and 100% reliable - thus Infallible!


i would disagree 150%... the book was written by men who were in fact quite Falliable. In many cases some would even consider them evil.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)



Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)



Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)



Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)



Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)



Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)


Need i say more





posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 03:56 PM
link   
reply to post by wearewatchingyouman
 





To put it simply... more or less, yes... there are some flaws that I find with the hypothesis, but overall, as a basis, it's better than anything else that has been presented...


You mean better than the Bible itself? You mean you're trusting more on weak and flawed hypothesis other than the Bible?

In other words - man made hypothesis is your bible to explain the Infallible written word of God?

Am I correct here?




yes, it is true that there have been many attemts to debunk the hypothesis, but it is still considered much, much stronger than the theory that Moses wrote the entire Torah...


no need to attempt to debunk something false -

so again, ru saying that a flawed man made hypothesis is "considered much, much stronger than the theory that Moses wrote the entire Torah... "?

And who is saying that Moses being the writer of the Torah is only a theory?

Okay - I get it - a man made flawed hypothesis.

Of course since you don't believe the Scriptures - how could you know?

Because if you do - you should be able see and understand the scriptures quoted below - pertain to the Books that Moses wrote - namely the Torah/Pentateuch.

Exodus (ASV)




Exd 17:14 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

“Exd 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of Jehovah, and all the ordinances: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which Jehovah hath spoken will we do.

Exd 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of Jehovah, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the mount, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.


Leviticus (YLT):


Lev 27:34 These [are] the commands which Jehovah hath commanded Moses for the sons of Israel, in mount Sinai.



Numbers (YLT)


Num 33:2 and Moses writeth their outgoings, by their journeys, by the command of Jehovah; and these [are] their journeys, by their outgoings:


Deuteronomy: (DBY)


Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had ended writing the words of this law in a book, until their conclusion,


Deu 31:25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, saying,


Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it at the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee;


As for:




I am of the opinion that there was a core book scribed by Moses, which he cobbled together from different sources that he had access to in Egypt, but that there were additions made by different writers and editors overtime... so I fail to see how any of this proves whatever point you are trying to make...


Whatever core book you're referring to do not exist anymore - i might also add that many of the historical events that he wrote especially in Genesis were probably handed down to him orally, or God told him about it. But in any case - you don't have proof and so do I but the important FACT that we need to remember is that his writings - the Torah (including Job) are with us and can confirm them to be so.

If they are not based on facts and truth then God's word is fallible - like man. But the evidence show otherwise - the Bible is NEVER wrong.




I've already done so... we could go in circles for the next hundred years.... your viewpoint is subjective to your dogma which causes a blindness to see obvious contradictions in something you call infallible... mine on the other hand is objective...


you mean objective as in using a flawed hypothesis?

So care to explain your flawed hypothesis - "the documentary theory"?





new topics

top topics



 
14
<< 14  15  16    18  19  20 >>

log in

join