Teen hammers parents to death and then has a party

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
reply to post by newcovenant

 

You ask "is this the sign of the times?"

No, its not. There have been much more gruesome crimes in history (Dahmer, Bundy, Gein, Chikatilo, Jewish Holocaust, Stalin's reign of terror, Mao's terror, 9/11, Suicide bombings in Israel, Murders in Palestine, Bombings and beheadings in Iraq, stoning of women in Middle East, rape of children by Priests, Lizzy Borden, ETC.

I guess my point is No. Its just another looney kid who murdered the ones who spawned his ass. Another murder, another day.

Interesting POV but maybe you don't see it, perhaps you are a little younger but people didn't kill their parents and parents didn't kill the kids OK there was Lizzie Borden and...?

By sign of the times I am referring to infanticide, patricide and things like that. Childhood abduction has tripled in our lifetime. People used to hitchhike, even kids. Crimes that were unthinkable in the past...of course they happened but not with the regularity as of late. If they happened they were famous and you even remember their names. Serial killers and war crimes are nothing new but I would say even they have enjoyed a surge in popularity.

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by StealthyKat
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I know! It scares me because it's murder for entertainment....

I don't see that it is any different than a snuff film...without the sex.
It is televised execution, and one day they'll probably be legal and prime time, since some psychological think tank will find it does not affect the viewer at all except perhaps to make us more grateful for our own relatively improved situation.

No... No they won't. Because that's stupid. You're building more strawmen slipping down slopes which don't exist. You're undercutting your own argument and you're undercutting the possibility of rational discourse.

Maybe you should torture and kill me then. In your imagination only so it will be OK. Strawman is the word of the moment is it? That's stupid. It is an argument that makes as much sense as the ones we have now. Clearly rational discourse is already lost on you so why should I bother? You are already defensive and attacking. Your nature is aggressive and attacking already,,,,naturally YOU are gonna have a problem with it. Don't worry nobody is taking away your snuff yet.

Originally posted by MajorKarma
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Seems to me this kid has much in common with many members; I am not saying they/you would kill your parents but don't lie, you relate. It also occurs to me that this is the kind of thing that TV, Movies and Games have been brainwashing this generation towards with all the desensitizing of violence and blood and screw tomorrow we are doomed kind of attitudes....tattoos in my opinion are a form of self loathing as well and my bet is some members would slash my tires just to prove it. When all of this has come to a head and the killing really starts, I wonder how tough this generation will prove to be...my bet is NOT.

edit on 19-7-2011 by MajorKarma because: typos

I am tending to agree with you friend.
Thanks for taking the time for thoughtful discourse...I was beginning to think it was impossible.
Glad to see it isn't.

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Naw...not in shock. I just have a dark sense of humor. Of course this is a horrifying tragedy...but I think there's a few things to consider.1. Humor is often meant to lighten up a dark situation, and remove tension from a tragic event....(this was my intent here). 2. it's a random act of violence by someone who is either pure evil, or who has mental problems.....We've always had people with mental problems, and we've always had people who are evil. So the story is not exactly representative of something that shall effect Society at large. It's just another random act of violence by a randomly violent individual. 3. My joke neither made fun of the person who committed the crime, nor did it poke fun at the victims of the crime....rather it was situational humor where I placed myself in the situation of being a teenager trying to find a secluded spot with which to 'make out' with some young girl (something anyone who went to parties in High School would be familiar with, I imagine) .....So I don't see it as directly aimed at anyone involved. Was it insensitive? Perhaps...but it was not malicious in anyway. Was it funny? Eh, probably not, since I didn't notice a whole slew of stars attached to my post...but hey, Sometimes you get a hit, and sometimes you don't.

I felt the tension shatter and all go away. What a trick. Can you do that again? Sarcasm sort of works like that too. We could dance a jig and feel a lot less tension but would that be "appropriate?" We all make our own choices and as you say you got stars so I guess thats what its all about. You are making WAY too much of it. I forgot all about it and care less why you said whatever...no offense.

Originally posted by newcovenant

I forgot all about it and care less why you said whatever...no offense.

Now you're getting it!

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by newcovenant


I don't see that it is any different than a snuff film...without the sex.
It is televised execution, and one day they'll probably be legal and prime time, since some psychological think tank will find it does not affect the viewer at all except perhaps to make us more grateful for our own relatively improved situation.

No... No they won't. Because that's stupid. You're building more strawmen slipping down slopes which don't exist. You're undercutting your own argument and you're undercutting the possibility of rational discourse.

Maybe you should torture and kill me then. In your imagination only so it will be OK. Strawman is the word of the moment is it? That's stupid. It is an argument that makes as much sense as the ones we have now. Clearly rational discourse is already lost on you so why should I bother? You are already defensive and attacking. Your nature is aggressive and attacking already,,,,naturally YOU are gonna have a problem with it. Don't worry nobody is taking away your snuff yet.

You're speaking nonsense now. I never expressed any violent intentions or desires; you seem to assume that because I defend their portrayal in video games, I engage in them in real life or fantasy.

You are the one rational discourse is lost on. You have reached the conclusion that society is degenerating into constant violence in every media, and will only continue to get worse to the point where we have murder on television. You're ranting and raving about a terrible future that there is no reason to believe in, but in an unsettlingly calm way.

I am not defensive and attacking; I defend and I argue. You retreat into your shell when your point of view is challenged, accusing your opponents of essentially being psychopaths.

Provide evidence that televised executions are on their way and in a regular basis, and that psychological think tanks -- whatever those are -- will be in support of them. support your outlandish claims, or they shall continue to be dismissed as the logical fallacies they are -- a slippery slope argument (to which I added a strawman because I thought it would be clever. Guess it wasn't; you win some you lose some.) which is best summed up as "stupid."

MC Hammer's influence on the youth of today clearly underestimated.

reply to post by POPtheKlEEN89


Last night on one of the HLN shows, maybe Jane V., a friend of his made a statement that this kid had taken 3 Ecstasy pills, then committed the murders. The friend said he knew about the murders before the public did.

reply to post by iLoGiCViZiOnS


Yep, now it's being reorted he was on ecstacy, and was planning on killing himself after the party.

Just to update the thread...arresting officers said he was nervous and talkative and had a blank stare and very large pupils. He told a friend at the party he killed his parents but the friend didn't believe him and so he showed him some blood stained items in the garage and finally opened a door and showed him the bodies in the bedroom.

It is thought he experienced some sort of diss associative episode and the reason is speculated because his parents said he could not throw the party.

He said he thought about killing his mother for about 5 minutes while she sat at her computer. When he hit her first with the hammer she was able to turn around and ask him "why?" but he finished her off.
His father came into the same room and he (told the friend) he and his father made eye contact for a few seconds and then "I went after him and killed him."
By all first hand accounts his parents were not abusive and very nice people. His father is well liked where he worked people said he was a very nice guy and people who had his mother in class say the same about her.

Why were his pupils blacked out or large according to the officers?
Is this indicative of some drug? Hard to imagine a kids party like this without any drugs.
I wonder if his parents were on anything and he got a hold of it or if he stopped taking an anti-depressant himself. This isn't exactly on the warning label on the bottle but quitting anti-depressants quickly can cause suicide behavior and SEVERE, mind altering depression. Maybe it can drive someone to murder?

No I am not making excuses...just trying to think of contributing causes, reasons why this happened.
Yes we all know he is a crazy murdering fool and that's why he did it but 21 years without incident? Hard to fathom.

The moral here is ...If you have kids, make sure your computer is NOT facing a wall and your back is NOT to whoever walks in.

Originally posted by newcovenant
The moral here is ...If you have kids, make sure your computer is NOT facing a wall and your back is NOT to whoever walks in.

I hope that was facetious. You can't expect this one, outlying case to make everyone afraid of their kids.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Why were his pupils blacked out or large according to the officers?
Is this indicative of some drug?

Yes. If you take extacy your pupils will dialate to their maximum apperture. I have seen this a lot, but T's and C's won't aloow me to elaborate.

The description of this kid is 100% consistent with someone who has been up all night on E. Probably quite a lot of E.

This story does my head in. E was called the Love Drug when I was younger. It was famous for making people intuitive, empathic, euphoric, connected, but most of all just bursting with love. How anyone could commit murder, let allone murder their own parents, whilst on E is beyond me. I guess this kid had some serious issues. I'd also wager a serious sum that if he was on E it was not pure MDMA. The dangers of street drugs. Buts that's another thread!

reply to post by Solasis


I can't really prove any of those things. I can probably locate tell tale signs they are on the horizon and in our future but I was actually being sarcastic. My bad.

You are the one rational discourse is lost on.

Now lets take this...(an interesting comment considering you don't know me, even a little) but let's say this is true. Why do you continue to prattle on? Unless you are ALSO exaggerating like I am in my first sentence. Try not to be guilty of what you criticize others for. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by Shamatt

Originally posted by newcovenant

Why were his pupils blacked out or large according to the officers?
Is this indicative of some drug?

Yes. If you take extacy your pupils will dialate to their maximum apperture. I have seen this a lot, but T's and C's won't aloow me to elaborate.

The description of this kid is 100% consistent with someone who has been up all night on E. Probably quite a lot of E.

This story does my head in. E was called the Love Drug when I was younger. It was famous for making people intuitive, empathic, euphoric, connected, but most of all just bursting with love. How anyone could commit murder, let allone murder their own parents, whilst on E is beyond me. I guess this kid had some serious issues. I'd also wager a serious sum that if he was on E it was not pure MDMA. The dangers of street drugs. Buts that's another thread!

Hey...you are right. Thanks for your answer. I was talking to a few other people earlier this evening and someone told me that. Ecstasy will make your pupils large like that.

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by newcovenant
The moral here is ...If you have kids, make sure your computer is NOT facing a wall and your back is NOT to whoever walks in.

I hope that was facetious. You can't expect this one, outlying case to make everyone afraid of their kids.

Hope springs eternal....
Actually yeah a little.
Especially if their kids are on drugs.
The parents that need to consider this, know who they are.
And no...it's not everyone.

Originally posted by newcovenant



Hey...you are right. Thanks for your answer. I was talking to a few other people earlier this evening and someone told me that. Ecstasy will make your pupils large like that.

Yeah. Here is a good example of what it looks like.

This can happen on all amphetamines, not just E.

www.drugfreetraining.co.za...

Originally posted by Shamatt

Originally posted by newcovenant



Hey...you are right. Thanks for your answer. I was talking to a few other people earlier this evening and someone told me that. Ecstasy will make your pupils large like that.

Yeah. Here is a good example of what it looks like.

This can happen on all amphetamines, not just E.

www.drugfreetraining.co.za...

Wow! That's freaky. And people walk around like that like it's normal? I never saw eyes like that. I heard as well he thought he was going to die. He told his friend when the cops caught him they'd be in for a surprise or something like that to indicate he would be dead by the time they caught on and found his parents bodies. I wonder if he will go through some withdrawal in jail?

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Shamatt

Originally posted by newcovenant



Hey...you are right. Thanks for your answer. I was talking to a few other people earlier this evening and someone told me that. Ecstasy will make your pupils large like that.

Yeah. Here is a good example of what it looks like.

This can happen on all amphetamines, not just E.

www.drugfreetraining.co.za...

Wow! That's freaky. And people walk around like that like it's normal? I never saw eyes like that. I heard as well he thought he was going to die. He told his friend when the cops caught him they'd be in for a surprise or something like that to indicate he would be dead by the time they caught on and found his parents bodies. I wonder if he will go through some withdrawal in jail?

Yeah. You'd get thousands of clubbers all sweating and dancing, everyones eyes just like that one. And every single person was completely accepting of, and completely in love with every other person. Thats how it felt any way. As if the whole croud was a single organism of love, oneness. That is why I can't understand how this kid could use the same drug whilst murdering his parents. It just does not fit. This is why I do not take these drugs any more, they are not the same as they were. That is why I would advise everyone not to take unknown pills from unknown sources. There are too many criminals involved who care much more for their profit than for your health.

It is a shame, but just don't take drugs.

Originally posted by Mizzijr
Just from reading.. sounds like a plan that he couldn't go through with..

Step 1. Kill parents.

Step 2. Invite a mass amount of people over.

Step 3. Try and find a way to put the blame on a person at the party.

Eh.. I don't know just a thought. Pretty sadistic though.. I wonder what those party people were thinking once they found out they were partying with a murderer with dead bodies upstairs... I'd be pretty freaked out..

I think that's what you or me would've done (if we were psychotic killers I mean), but I honestly wouldn't give this kid that much credit. I doubt he's bright enough to have thought this through.....and if he is, then whatever plan he had to frame someone obviously didn't work......I doubt he would get cold feet about framing someone, if he was cold blooded enough to actually kill his parents.

Again...your Idea is certainly a clever plan....I just don't think this kid is likely all that clever. Just my opinion though...I obviously have no evidence to prove that.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Solasis

 

I can't really prove any of those things. I can probably locate tell tale signs they are on the horizon and in our future but I was actually being sarcastic. My bad.

I don't think you're very good at sarcasm, then.

You are the one rational discourse is lost on.

Now lets take this...(an interesting comment considering you don't know me, even a little) but let's say this is true. Why do you continue to prattle on? Unless you are ALSO exaggerating like I am in my first sentence. Try not to be guilty of what you criticize others for. Just sayin'.

I am not exaggerating; you have just proven that you can't engage in a proper rational conversation. "I can't show you any proof but it's TOTALLY true! Uh but I was being sarcastic, yeah, that's the ticket." As for why i "prattled on"? In the hopes that I had wrongly evaluated you, and in the presumption that more rational people would see it and know the flaws in your statements.