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FL Homeowner kills intruder with 44 magnum.

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posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


Well , I would call it baiting. You clearly do not respect people who can get things done without expensive equipment designed for the purpose. I have no problem with folks who defend themselves with firearms, but I do have a problem with people who make snide comments about those who believe there are better ways. Making such comments, as you did, shows you up , not as someone who is furiously supportive of self defense, but as someone who just wants an excuse, any old excuse to blow a hole in someone and be legaly supported in that action.

There are big differences.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


Well , I would call it baiting. You clearly do not respect people who can get things done without expensive equipment designed for the purpose. I have no problem with folks who defend themselves with firearms, but I do have a problem with people who make snide comments about those who believe there are better ways. Making such comments, as you did, shows you up , not as someone who is furiously supportive of self defense, but as someone who just wants an excuse, any old excuse to blow a hole in someone and be legaly supported in that action.

There are big differences.


you have completely misjudged me and most other people who own guns. if you're sure you could take the guy with your bare hands, then go for it. but for me and mine, i'm not going to take chances. how did i show disrespect to anyone?

how were my comments negative at all? i think this is a great example of how guns can do good.

where did i advocate senseless killing? unless you think the person breaking into someone's home and going after their kids with knives isn't a situation where lethal force is justified.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
now i don't ever want to hear the question "why do americans feel like they need guns?" again. protecting your family from a knife-wielding crazy man is a damn good reason.


This , right here , is baiting those who believe there are better ways of doing things. You dont want to hear that question... that says all it needs to .

As I made very clear, I support a home owner using lethal force when required, however, if there are other options, for instance air tazers, baton rounds, hypodermic dart launchers, and the like, then it might be better to utilise those, because they are less likely to kill. Killing someone is something that no one, no matter how much of a hardass does not need in thier lives. How many nights sleep have been lost by a completely innocent homeowner over a person they have had to kill?



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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.44 Mag.....who's paying for the daughter's hearing aid now?

In seriousness, I'm glad this happened the way it did and not the way it could have. I'm also glad it happened in Florida, where the laws are happily on the defending person's side.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Disagree. Experience has shown that if someone is wearing enough layers, the tazer won't arc and affect the person, less-lethal firearm rounds are great, until you realize you have to keep the person subdued until the police show up. That opens a lot of litigation for one (since "citizens arrest" doesn't exist in most places), and the possibility that your attacker is fairly fit, and thus able to regain his feet in a decent amount of time. Then what? Shoot him again? When he expects it? Maybe, maybe you miss and it's a struggle. Maybe the weapon gets discharged and strikes your kid. Maybe not. But why take the risk?

Do I wish that every situation like this could be resolved with a baseball bat? Yes. Is it realistic to think, in this day and age, that is possible? No. Fact is, you can never be sure about all the variables. As a father, I say better to put the man down than put my boy in the ground.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by RedGod
 


Fair, but to "not want to hear" the alternatives would make you an ignorant cuss , not worth spitting on wouldnt you say ? Its obvious that you arent that sort of guy, but when people prove to me that they have no ability to assimilate new data, or to hear the opinions of others, well.... that makes me justifiably mad.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
now i don't ever want to hear the question "why do americans feel like they need guns?" again. protecting your family from a knife-wielding crazy man is a damn good reason.


This , right here , is baiting those who believe there are better ways of doing things. You dont want to hear that question... that says all it needs to .

As I made very clear, I support a home owner using lethal force when required, however, if there are other options, for instance air tazers, baton rounds, hypodermic dart launchers, and the like, then it might be better to utilise those, because they are less likely to kill. Killing someone is something that no one, no matter how much of a hardass does not need in thier lives. How many nights sleep have been lost by a completely innocent homeowner over a person they have had to kill?



i don't want to hear the question again because the situation presented in this thread answers it very well. its the reason all americans should have guns.

so your argument against using lethal force is the psychological effects of killing someone? personally i wouldn't feel bad killing someone who was going to harm my family. i'd rather be 100% sure the guy wasn't going to ever try again.

if someone doesn't feel like they could do it, or they know they'd feel guilt, then go with one of the options you suggested. i couldn't care less.

however, my main point has always been that this is a sterling example of why americans keep guns, and why we defend our rights to keep them. if you aren't denying that, then why are you arguing?



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


Because as far as I will say Kudos to the fellow who so rightly defended his family here, I cannot abide closed minded fools saying inflammatory things like "I dont wanna hear it" as if this declaration makes them or thier incredible small mindedness any more sensible.

I mean who the hell do you think you are? Nixon? Duke Nukem? Who cares what you want to hear exactly ?



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by Bob Sholtz
 


You know, you can be 100% sure right up until two minutes after you pull the trigger. I was. Then I went to Afghanistan. Pulled the trigger there, and threw up thirty minutes later just thinking about it. I was fully justified, the guy was still shooting at us, and he was the enemy I was there to fight, and it was him or me and my friends, doesn't make taking that life any easier.

Just something to digest.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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its only logical.

if you're debating someone about something, and they keep bringing up the same debunked argument over and over, what are you going to say? "yes, please! tell us that argument again!"

right.

as far as who is baiting who:



I mean who the hell do you think you are? Nixon? Duke Nukem? Who cares what you want to hear exactly ?



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by RedGod
 


thank you for your service.

as for me, i'll find comfort in the fact that my family is safe. very little matters beyond that.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by The Old AmericanI am saving lives if I shoot an intruder as hollow points tend to not travel past walls.


I use the MagSafe SWAT rounds (about $3.00 a round) - they are very expensive but we used them in SF when doing CQB. I keep 2 magazines for my .45 at home for defense. They break up on impact and have very little flash for operating in the dark and while in a half wake state as well as they are not as loud in the confined space of a home.

I also have an AK with a magazine of the MagSafe 7.62x39 rounds (also, $3.00 a round) just in case I get a runner.

@TrueBrit - you have watched too many movies my friend. Even most of the operators I know can't kneecap someone in a dark CQB situation from 20 feet. Headshots, for sure but knees are in constant motion. However, I know I will be shooting center mass because even with castle doctrine immunity in Missouri - I bet there will be some issues with my training that might come up. If I made a head shot (which is unlikely BTW see below) I'd probably have some legal issues.

I was a SF Team Leader so I am no expert at any of the tasks more of an organizer and planner and coordinator - I surely couldn't knee cap a moving target in the dark. I shot center mass as my good NCO's suggested; however, they (especially the weapons guys) pretty much can shoot the nuts off a fly from 50 yards with a handgun though.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by RedGodYou know, you can be 100% sure right up until two minutes after you pull the trigger. I was. Then I went to Afghanistan. Pulled the trigger there, and threw up thirty minutes later just thinking about it. I was fully justified, the guy was still shooting at us, and he was the enemy I was there to fight, and it was him or me and my friends, doesn't make taking that life any easier.


As a 24 year veteran of many engagements it is not easy and if it ever should become so for someone it is time to find a new line of work. Killing is a grave responsibility and should be taken very seriously. I think most people dry heave a little the first time they get in contact (some even every time) for me it was a combination of the adrenaline and smells more than the psychological impact.

Usually that sets in after the debriefing and you have to defend your decisions and actions. It has a tendency to make one question himself.



posted on Jul, 19 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by tamusan
 


Cool man. You are cool and tough.



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