San Francisco Police Shoot and Kill Teenager over $2 bus fare GRAPHIC VIDEO, page 7

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reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 05:45 AM by Zamini

reply to post by SFA437

You mean like lying about the cops planting a gun on the convicted sex offender with the murder warrant who took multiple shots at the officers chasing him?

There is no organization I belong to that does these things. How nice of you to discredit yourself though. How the hell did you manage to become cop? (rhetorical question)

You seem to wish to attribute certain behavior to huge blocks of people which makes you a bigot. I do the same and somehow I am wrong- but you are right?

There is a difference. The difference being, you base yours on hot air while I base mine on psychological knowledge and papers.

That is the very definition of hypocrisy.

No, but you are the very definition of uneducated.

I wonder what you did for a living when you are justifying the actions of the suspect.

I'm a student of many things.

It's a psychological condition found amongst street thugs, drug dealers and violent criminals.

I'm neither of the three so you've already struck out over 9000 times.

Basically all the groups who make money preying on others and screaming racism when caught.

I've never made money this way. Did you know that as a young kid I aspired to be a police officer? Until I understood that the majority of police think and act like you do, that is, they don't think and act only as they are told.

Enjoy the ignorance.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 05:47 AM by Deebo

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
Dang man!! While it is hard to judge without the facts, is it standard procedure to shoot and then watch them for 2 minutes as they bleed out? Shouldn't one officer, like one finally did, step forward to check the guy, for weapons AND to aid him? "Where's the gun?" Good question, but agin I don't know the facts, it just seems a little whack.
What a volatile scene too, it could have gotten a lot worse, for everyone.

FerrisBueller -
The gun, which was not found immediately after the 5 p.m. shooting in the city's Bayview District, was believed to have been taken from the ground as officers tended to the suspect, said police Sgt. Michael Andraychak.

That doesn't make much sense, that they found it later. If there was a gun, would it not have served everyone better to show it at the scene and incident? Unless they found it somewhere other than on the guy.
edit on 17-7-2011 by speculativeoptimist because: (no reason given)

Kinda hard to tend to the downed thug when a flash mob is trying to attack you. I hate and despise when cops are jackboots but this does seem like a good shoot so far. I cannot believe a guy would run and shoot at police over a 2 dollar bus fare, what's that, maybe 10-20 hours community service at the most? Pure ignorance, and he paid the ultimate price.

Deebo

edit on 18-7-2011 by Deebo because: fix

edit on 18-7-2011 by Deebo because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 05:49 AM by Deebo

Originally posted by Theoretician
reply to post by DJLateralus

Watching the video made me well up I must admit...

I am from the UK so I can't understand why the police carry guns... Surely they should have safer alternatives like a taser or pepper spray etc...

I suppose the bottom line is the police should of done their job and talked with the individual instead of hiding behind and speaking with their weapons!

We are on the verge of a revolution... The police are going to be the first to know!

Because the bad guys have them too.. Simple as that. Same reason as us law abiding citizens have them also.

Deebo

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 05:52 AM by geraldcole

Bet everyone there will pay for the bus fare from now on.

nsensitive i know>

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 05:54 AM by SFA437

reply to post by BeyondPerception

You may be right on that but most foot chases are not straight line affairs. Lots of zig-zagging. When you're trying to evade to the point you'll crack off some rounds the last thing you want to do is run in a straight line. He must have figured the police would shoot back and you want to bob and weave like a boxer if you're getting shot at and preferably turn a corner. It gives you a tactical advantage against your pursuers should you choose to ambush as well as breaking the line of sight allowing you to hole up.

Hope you follow the line of reasoning there.

If the suspect was really moving flat out in a straight line the weapon could have slid when he hit the sidewalk. The average speed of a human runner is 15 MPH. You'll get a good 20-30 feet of sliding out of a hard object on concrete at that speed.

Actually now that I mentioned that and assuming he was shot in the back I do think you're correct.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:03 AM by BuzzCory

Originally posted by SFA437
reply to post by BuzzCory

The police were wrong in doing that. 110% wrong. Period.

The minute the suspect went down he should have been secured, pat searched FAST and medical aid given. Granted the police do not carry much med gear on their persons but even a handkerchief applied as a pressure bandage might have made a difference.

I have no issues whatsoever with the shoot- it is what came after that was effed up. If you put a hole in someone and they are no longer actively resisting you attempt to patch that hole no matter what is going on around you. There were enough officers to run a tight 360 while one gave aid.

Bit cowardly not to IMO.

In an ideal world (seen from behind a keyboard), sure they should have at least tried to stop the bleeding. I'm not saying it wasn't messed up to let the guy bleed out, but again, given the situation, I can fully understand why they handled it the way they did.
Maybe you feel there were enough officers present, but I'm sure none of them felt that way until it was over.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:05 AM by Timetoriot

Originally posted by BuzzCory

Originally posted by SFA437
reply to post by BuzzCory

The police were wrong in doing that. 110% wrong. Period.

The minute the suspect went down he should have been secured, pat searched FAST and medical aid given. Granted the police do not carry much med gear on their persons but even a handkerchief applied as a pressure bandage might have made a difference.

I have no issues whatsoever with the shoot- it is what came after that was effed up. If you put a hole in someone and they are no longer actively resisting you attempt to patch that hole no matter what is going on around you. There were enough officers to run a tight 360 while one gave aid.

Bit cowardly not to IMO.

In an ideal world (seen from behind a keyboard), sure they should have at least tried to stop the bleeding. I'm not saying it wasn't messed up to let the guy bleed out, but again, given the situation, I can fully understand why they handled it the way they did.
Maybe you feel there were enough officers present, but I'm sure none of them felt that way until it was over.

Stop justifying this murder, your almost as bad as squealing Piggie SFA437

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:07 AM by Aussie_Rock

I think its despicable letting a man bleed out in front of all those people.
Where the police looking for a riot, maybe to justify the shooting in the first place.
Now police seem to think the cost of life is $2.00
There were enough police standing around that at least one of them could have provided first aid, considering they went to him when he looked like he had passed away.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:07 AM by ATSisforcrazypeople

Click here for more information.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:10 AM by SFA437

Originally posted by Zamini
There is a difference. The difference being, you base yours on hot air while I base mine on psychological knowledge and papers.

Incorrect. I base mine on many years of experience in dealing with the worst this society has to offer. Never shot anyone, never beat anyone nor needed to either. The less interference with a citizen's life the better. I'd rather drive a drunk home than lock him up. Nickel and dime bags got tossed down storm drains by the owners- makes life easier for everyone. That being said if someone started shooting at me I'd damn sure shoot back and those who defended the very people who preyed on the citizenry were usually affiliated and/or sympathetic to the criminals.

I apologize if I went off the deep end. I just get tired of hearing "all cops" this and "all cops" that. I'm retired now due to injury so I can afford to lose my temper and vent

I just wanted you to get a taste of what you were saying about me without even knowing you were saying it by suggesting right off the bat the officers planted the firearm despite spent casings being found and a block long running gun battle occurring.

Anyhow I was wrong for saying what I did about you. I apologize.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:12 AM by BuzzCory

Originally posted by Timetoriot

Originally posted by BuzzCory

Originally posted by SFA437
reply to post by BuzzCory

The police were wrong in doing that. 110% wrong. Period.

The minute the suspect went down he should have been secured, pat searched FAST and medical aid given. Granted the police do not carry much med gear on their persons but even a handkerchief applied as a pressure bandage might have made a difference.

I have no issues whatsoever with the shoot- it is what came after that was effed up. If you put a hole in someone and they are no longer actively resisting you attempt to patch that hole no matter what is going on around you. There were enough officers to run a tight 360 while one gave aid.

Bit cowardly not to IMO.

In an ideal world (seen from behind a keyboard), sure they should have at least tried to stop the bleeding. I'm not saying it wasn't messed up to let the guy bleed out, but again, given the situation, I can fully understand why they handled it the way they did.
Maybe you feel there were enough officers present, but I'm sure none of them felt that way until it was over.

Stop justifying this murder, your almost as bad as squealing Piggie SFA437

Only almost? I don't know how you arrived at that interpretation of what I wrote, but I see you have the courage of your convictions, & I won't try to sway your opinion further; trust me on that much.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:12 AM by Timetoriot

edit on 18-7-2011 by Timetoriot because: no need for it

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:14 AM by SFA437

reply to post by BuzzCory

I've patched up Iraqis in the middle of firefights where people have serious weaponry and a good reason to use them- these guys could have had one of their number put a compression bandage on the guy.

It's utterly messed up that they didn't.

Matter of fact it is counter-productive. Now the locals are going to look at them in an even worse light than the did before because they let the guy bleed out. for almost 2 minutes. If they had made an effort it might have mitigated some of the anger and resentment.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:18 AM by Troofseeker

Originally posted by vlady95
Here's a solution: Don't shoot at the cops and don't run. I'm not saying the cops are right (many times they are wrong) but if you shoot at people you should expect to be shot at.

Here's another solution: Get rid of firearms.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:23 AM by BeyondPerception

reply to post by SFA437

I don't know for sure, and doubt I ever will. Whether I'm right or wrong, doesn't matter. I'm not taking the side of anyone. I just want entertain a perspective so that maybe some day people won't just believe everything they hear. People need to start critically-thinking for themselves and asking logical questions, because the fact is, people lie, and no one can be confided in 100%, that is why we have such a thing as evidence. Whether you're a cop, a president, a priest, a teacher, a news agency, whatever. It's our nature to lie, big and small, and this can often change the outcome of various decisions and opinions.

I just hope that whatever happens here, the right actions be made. There are obviously a lot of unanswered questions, and I hope this case doesn't get slammed shut simply because some cop is "confident" they found a weapon. If foul-play was involved, I hope those who participated, get their sweet taste of justice.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:26 AM by mikellmikell

From a local paramedic The police don't touch somebody they shot first reason is the blood may be tainted and they are not going to risk it. Second they might be accused of planting evidense or doing something to further expedite his death. With a croud ready to attack you the guy on the ground is the least of your worries. They did the right thing. Many of you need to spend some time in the hood and see how they act in the real world.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:26 AM by Zamini

reply to post by SFA437

Incorrect. I base mine on many years of experience in dealing with the worst this society has to offer. Never shot anyone, never beat anyone nor needed to either.

Great thing to read.

I'd rather drive a drunk home than lock him up.

I'd say you were/are an exemplary officer and human then.

I apologize if I went off the deep end. I just get tired of hearing "all cops" this and "all cops" that. I'm retired now due to injury so I can afford to lose my temper and vent

I understand your stance and your veracity, you are replying to the information you were supplied; namely that the person shot was a wanted criminal. And not just that, but he allegedly killed a pregnant woman - which really pisses me off to read. Why? Because I would like nothing more to see a slow corporal punishment administered to the people who are violent towards women and pregnant women at that.

However, if I'd stop and think for a minute I come to the conclusion that this is not the point of a justice system.

I apologize for the veracity in my posts as well, as I now believe and understand why you held the tone you did.

I just wanted you to get a taste of what you were saying about me without even knowing you were saying it by suggesting right off the bat the officers planted the firearm despite spent casings being found and a block long running gun battle occurring.

The reason I say it is because no help is being administered to a human being flopping around in a pool of his own blood. That is suspicious to me. And it wouldn't be the first time weapons or drugs or shell cases are planted.

Anyhow I was wrong for saying what I did about you. I apologize.

And I may be wrong about what happened. However, the rule of law should be followed by all. Our feelings of vengeance should not stop that, it would be a slippery slope to anarchy. Witnesses say he had his hands up when he was shot. There is no justifying that regardless of any past crimes, as much as I'd like to see people who lay their hands on women burn. I hope you understand my perspective now.

I sometimes talk with police officers in the Netherlands, for instance when they ask me for ID when I'm just walking home or to a friends place and they ask it for no reason. And they also agree with me that some police officers are out to harass people.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:31 AM by BuzzCory

Originally posted by SFA437
reply to post by BuzzCory

I've patched up Iraqis in the middle of firefights where people have serious weaponry and a good reason to use them- these guys could have had one of their number put a compression bandage on the guy.

It's utterly messed up that they didn't.

Matter of fact it is counter-productive. Now the locals are going to look at them in an even worse light than the did before because they let the guy bleed out. for almost 2 minutes. If they had made an effort it might have mitigated some of the anger and resentment.

I'm not disagreeing with you; what I was attempting to do was to present one possible explanation of why the officers on the scene were not immediately attending to the downed man. I took exception to the repeated assertion that they were simply "standing around" letting him bleed out, when there was obviously an ongoing situation that had not yet stabilized.

Sorry if I didn't make this clear in my original post, but I was not saying that it was okay for them to leave the fallen man unattended to. And I agree that the way it was handled was counter-productive for the reason you gave.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 06:32 AM by SFA437

reply to post by BeyondPerception

No argument there- if the shoot wasn't righteous they face the full force and effect of the law. Period.

I will give some insight onto why "throwdowns" don't work in cities though. If the CID/CSI guys come up with a weapon that is totally clean or doesn't have the suspects prints on the weapon or the cartridges- that tosses up a HUGE red flag and brings IAD down with a vengeance. In addition there are loads of people with cell phones capable of recording video. Even if a cop wanted to try it the risk of getting caught in an open air scenario like this is astronomical.

Rural cops... well it's a bit easier as there's nobody around to catch them on camera.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it isn't as prevalent as people think and typically not in scenarios like this. Typically a throwdown is used inside a residence or vehicle away from the public or on the side of some road in the middle of nowhere. I keep up on a lot of police related things and IA stuff is some of my favorite reading and those are the things I've picked up about the subject.

reply posted on 18-7-2011 @ 07:02 AM by pplrnuts

I see NO wrongdoing on behalf of the officers whatsoever. Officers justified in their actions.

An officers use of deadly force is certainly justified when a thug fires at them with a firearm. The video can be paused at a certain point (as mentioned in an earlier post) to where a small silver semi-automatic pistol can clearly be identified in close proximity of suspect.

Officers were CLEARLY out-numbered by an angry mob to which their own safety and lives depended upon their watch over the angry mob to which had to take precedence over immediate attention to the downed thug suspect.

This is what happens sometimes to animal thugs who go around killing people and firing pistols at our police officers.

Should be celebrated as one less animal thug degenerate in society now.

edit on 18-7-2011 by pplrnuts because: (no reason given)