Herman Cain: Communities have right to ban mosques

What is your own religious belief?

I really want to know.

I'm an atheist.

reply to post by poet1b


What do Muslim dominated areas of a Western city appear like?

(1) We can look at Tower Hamlets in London to see.

• Muslims extremists on the street hand out leaflets proclaiming that, in the name of Allah, the area is a ‘gay-free zone’.

• Advertising hoardings ‘censored’ with thick black paint — particularly those that show women in swimwear or people kissing.

• Physical and verbal attacks against homosexuals.

• Muslim Labour councillor in Tower Hamlets threatened because she refuses to wear a veil.

• Muslim women receive death threats for not wearing a veil

(2) Bangladeshi-born mayoral candidate Lutfur Rahman was deselected by the labour party due to his links to the Islamic Forum of Europe (IFE).

• The IFE openly preaches jihad and states that it wants to turn Europe into Islamic republics.

• Subsequently, Lutfur Rahman was elected mayor of Tower Hamlets, despite his links with the IFE, by the Muslim population of this London council.

(3) The Islamic Forum of Europe (IFE) which the Muslim mayor is linked to

• Expresses opposition to democracy, support for Sharia law and mocks black people (as recorded).

• According to an IFE leaflet, they want to change the

‘very infrastructure of society, its institutions, its culture, its political order and its creed . . . from ignorance to Islam’.

• Moderate Muslims told how the IFE and its allies were enforcing their hard-line views on the rest of the community, cracking down on behaviour they deemed ‘un-Islamic’.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

(4) Why are extreme Muslims so successful at dominating Muslim communities?

The clue why may lie in the fact that a Muslim with links to a radical Islamic supremacist organisation was elected Mayor, despite being thrown out of the Labour party for those links.

Originally posted by Tib50
The Eighth Amendment to the US Constitution expressly FORBIDS "cruel or unusual punishments", like beheading, stoning to death, chopping off hands and feet, throwing homosexuals off high buildings, judicially sanctioned rape of a woman for crimes committed by her male relatives, etc. etc. etc..........

And? I feel you have some implied point here but don't really want to come out and say it.

Out with it. What about the eighth has anything to do with banning religious institutions?

reply to post by ollncasino


They are a hostile force with a clear aim of conquest. Round them up and send them all back to Bangladesh.

Tolerance is one thing, but allowing a group of immigrants to act like this is not something any society should have to tolerate. Who cares if they are second or third generation. If they insist on conquering the nation to which their parents or grandparents migrated, deport them.

Pre-arrange everything, set up surveillance in the area, surround them with a force more than capable of doing what is needed, and in the middle of the night, round them up and ship them out.

Originally posted by ollncasino

What is your own religious belief?

I really want to know.

I'm an atheist.

Thank you.

So am I.

Originally posted by disasternaut
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

It seems that your depiction of our country as "invaders" shows very plainly where you stand on our military; sure we rely on other countries for some of our resources, but this doesn't mean that we murder for them or that we don't help countries with less power than we have. And look, if we ever fall into a communistic dictatorship then sure I would support opposition to it; but as of right now I just don't see what the gripe is with the way we do things, honestly, we have it much better than so many countries and we have a system that ultimately works. Why fix what isn't broken? I must add that I'm not a "blind nationalist" I am fully aware that our country is in trouble, which is why I am going to vote this coming election.

edit on 19-7-2011 by disasternaut because: spelling

Hey, thanks for the reply

ok, some things
In regards to the US invasion force..

I am not really a 9-11 conspiracy type..I have questions, and I see some looming coincidences, but ultimately I try not to consider it too much because it makes me feel totally helpless...in saying that...
-Taliban is approached by administration to rent out land to run a oil pipeline through the state
taliban decides no...no deal.
9/11 happens shortly after that, Tally sent to the hills, pipeline erected. Seems very coincidental
I won't go into the reasons behind veitnam or iraq..those speak for themselves. There alre also other less popular wars that recieved general media blackout...sure is a lot of freedom we have to fight for in a ongoing basis.

In regards to where i stand on our military
I think its a horrible orginization that I wish was never needed to be even invented...but I am not nieve enough to think that it isn't. I see it for what it is, America's murder machine...and although I am non religious, I tend to see murder as a sin overall..sin to humanity, sin to intellectualism, sin to progress...
Yes, war is at times necessary, but not as necessary as we are lead to believe...I think it is in the realm of not just defense, but also conquest as it always has been. our military is not alone in this assessment.
Imagine a world without any military...people would have to talk things out...but again, don't want to wander into hippyland too much..just stating. my views on the military is the same views I have for a hangmans noose...it serves a horrible function that sometimes is necessary, sometimes is not.


If our allies decide to go with a communism or other type of government type, that will be their choice. If its imposed on them by a minority or invading force, we have an obligation to help, but if its the majority choosing it and at the same time observing human rights, then that is their choice. I have no hate or love for other peoples choices...its their choice, and frankly, I would be interested to see how a different structure works under peace...we know systems of government falter when at war...sure...I want to know what works best during peace though
I suspect a properly run socialism is the best peacetime governmental structure currrently in existance (considering a technocracy is not yet feasible)

I am a patriot (in my opinion). I quite like America. No, I don't believe I am somehow better than someone born elsewhere...if I was born into some cannibalistic tribe in the brazilian rainforest, well, I would probably like that lifestyle also because I got used to it.
My patriotism is not about patting ourselves on the back for past successes, nor is it pretending that somehow what we got here is unique to the world...rather, its a desire to see us push ahead in areas that count...and that is the most frustrating to me because I see us failing on all accounts
(technology being the biggest factor).
Thats it...I see that the structure of our country, and the decisions we are making today, will indeed turn us over time into a lesser country. the east will rise above us and everything we built will be inferior and redundant. and every day, we dig that hole a little bit deeper...

The beauty of the nation is also the poison of the nation...our democratic process, our constitution trying to limit governmental programs, etc...these are the things that will retard our progress..not big gov programs like medicare or some such, but things like nasa, giant scientific research firms that give to the nation freely their findings...this is, in my mind, the most critical infrustructure programs we have, yet its also the things we chop away at quickly whenever there is a bit of a budget crisis..or whenever some politician wants to win temporary points..politicians are slaves to the short term small mindset of the local voters they represent that are unable to see what comes in 20 years.

reply to post by ollncasino

Are you for real?

Muhammad not only kept slaves, he personally enslaved women and children after murdering their brothers and fathers.

As you say. It is well known and documented by Muslims, but not well known by non-Muslims.

This is absurd. You are asserting that only Muhammad and Muslim society killed and obtained slaves? Again every society did and is documented. The common practice with the Muslims was that if women and children were captured from war they would become slaves unless the opposing force would pay ransom, this was also practiced by the Greeks, Romans, and the Chinese (if you want to talk about brutal slavery Slavery in China ).

I was wrong you CAN question the moral integrity of any man who uses slaves past and future. But you are using slavery as an example of the evil Islam, when in fact it was a horrid practice that all societies are guilty of. Before the Arab slave trade began, other traders used the same passages and trade routes to transport slaves and goods as far back as 1500 years before the rise of Islam. The Muslims you could argue simply expanded the operation.

There are many things I do not like about Islam. It is corrupt and the greedy and powerful have hijacked it for their own goals. This is the same with all religions, the only difference being that Islam has woven themselves very deeply into the political theater (which is bad regardless of what religion it is).

How many Muslims do you know in America who own slaves?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Have you forgotten that the Taliban were actively training Muslims to carry out acts of terrorism abroad?

Are you also aware that the Taliban would kill girls for daring to go to school?

You should include these realities into your things.

The only reason we have the liberties we have is because people were willing to fight and die for them, and the only reason we still have our liberties is because people are willing to fight for those liberties.

Originally posted by ollncasino
reply to post by poet1b

 

What do Muslim dominated areas of a Western city appear like?

(1) We can look at Tower Hamlets in London to see.

(4) Why are extreme Muslims so successful at dominating Muslim communities?

The clue why may lie in the fact that a Muslim with links to a radical Islamic supremacist organisation was elected Mayor, despite being thrown out of the Labour party for those links.

You give an excellent summary of the whole situation. Third World immigrants have brought Third World corruption to British politics, with widespread fraud during the general election last year, in which lists of "voters" names were collected in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh & Nigeria, then sent back to be sold to the highest bidder, and registered as "postal ballots". One Marxist candidate actually announced her election "victory" a full TWO WEEKS BEFORE the election, by gaining illegal access to the postal ballots sent in from abroad in her mostly Muslim constituency. There were many other examples of voter registration fraud, such as the 18 voters registered at one tiny London flat.

All the while, the brave British soldiers fighting in Afghanistan were repeatedly blocked and obstructed in their efforts to register their own postal ballots.

I'd just like to add this link to the story of the reporter for one of the main British newspapers, the Independent, who was beaten up by Muslims while trying to investigate electoral fraud in a London constituency. You can see his battered face here:

jonslattery.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by poet1b

Cain's got a point, Islam isn't just a religion, it also consists of required law and seeks to establish a state within a state, and this shouldn't be allowed. It is about time someone came out and said the obvious.

He has as much right to try and ban a mosque as anyone else has the right to try and ban christian church/temple or Synagogue. Religion is something politicians should stay the hell away from.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Tib50
The Eighth Amendment to the US Constitution expressly FORBIDS "cruel or unusual punishments", like beheading, stoning to death, chopping off hands and feet, throwing homosexuals off high buildings, judicially sanctioned rape of a woman for crimes committed by her male relatives, etc. etc. etc..........

And? I feel you have some implied point here but don't really want to come out and say it.

Out with it. What about the eighth has anything to do with banning religious institutions?

"Implied point" ??? You are defending a Pagan Moon God Death Cult whose attempts to establish the "cruel and unusual punishments" of Sharia Law in the United States DIRECTLY VIOLATES THE EIGHTH AMENDMENT OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

Nothing to do with "implied"---I just thought it was glaringly self-evident.

reply to post by Openeye


"Daring to question the moral integrity" of the founder of the Pagan Moon God Death Cult?

Well, I think it can safely be said that he was the only founder of a major world "religion" who PERSONALLY BEHEADED 600 PEOPLE IN A SINGLE DAY.

Gosh, how's that for "moral integrity"?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Have you forgotten that the Taliban were actively training Muslims to carry out acts of terrorism abroad?

Are you also aware that the Taliban would kill girls for daring to go to school?

You should include these realities into your things.

There are bad people all over the world, yep
the taliban allowed for terrorist cells to continue existing...but, don't forget which nation propped up said camps and training...the taliban, mujahadeen, all that is a cia invention. Not a conspiracy, it is a fact. they simply didn't disban when the soviets left...and that also was a welcomed thing initially to give iran a pain in the arse should they consider invading

The only reason we have the liberties we have is because people were willing to fight and die for them, and the only reason we still have our liberties is because people are willing to fight for those liberties.

Some cavemen in afhganistan has no bearing on my liberties. the -story- of 9/11 is unfortunate and horrible, however, that in itself did not diminish my ability to go drink at a bar, or see a movie, etc...what did clamp down on my liberties was our decade long reaction (ongoing) to it...and it has not made me personally more or less safe than september 10th 2001.

Your fully on board the propaganda machine...how did the taliban somehow threaten your liberties? or iraq, or veitnam, or libya, etc.

reply to post by SaturnFX


If we didn't have a military there would no doubt be militias spring up and do the same thing no doubt. I for one agree with the idea of small government; if you give a government to much power you increase the odds of corruption, its by the people for the people, not by the government for the government. To address the communism issue all we have to do is look at what happened to Russia. Lines and lines of people waiting for a single loaf of bread; it just doesn't work friend.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by anumohi
The second book of the Koran tells muslims to deceive and kill anyone that deny's Islam its religion laws and state....so...just as the old jew testament becomes the jesus new testament, islam has a purpose and a goal and needs to be removed entirely from the US and sent back from whence it came and any one who doesn't like it can crapily follow

edit on 18-7-2011 by anumohi because: (no reason given)

The Bible is full of sexism, bigotry, and violence.

And yet, no one here is saying that book of mythology should be abolished from the United States. Oh wait, it fits your ideologies? Doesn't matter.

It's still crap and so is Islam. Hell, Religion overall can go away all I care.

The whole "my religion is better than yours" argument is immature and anyone who uses it (98% of ATS members in this thread) lacks intelligence and deserves a big ol slap in the face.

Later.

At least Xtianity is something people can ignore pretty much if they choose - Islam intends to kill you unless you submit.

Choosing to ignore that reality - in order to spite Xtianity is what I would call imature!

Believing a higher being created our planet in a few days is actually immature.

Religion is a scam. Get over it. Theeeenks.

reply to post by SaturnFX


These groups aren't CIA invented, they were simply supported by the CIA in the war against the USSR.

The Taliban set up training camps for terrorists, because they firmly believe that Islam should be the religion of the world over, as long as they have to wage war, they will wage war.

As far as the men who have fought to secure our liberties, I am talking about the men who fought the revolutionary war, and all the wars to defend our nations sovereignty and liberties, and then there are all the union workers who fought to bring in protection for workers, and on and on.

Sorry, but you take your liberty for granted, and that is not a good thing.

Originally posted by disasternaut
Lines and lines of people waiting for a single loaf of bread; it just doesn't work friend.

Russia/USSR was nerfed because of the cold war. as I said, it would be interesting to see how well it does in a peacetime setting.
I personally don't believe communism will ever work..the flaw is the human factor.so, its ultimately a doomed system.
I do however believe that a socio-capitalism is perhaps the best form of government. This comes from views of nazi germany, current nordic areas, and china moving towards that and watching a mega boom in their economy and general way of life.

Nazi germany, had it not been at war all over the place, was doing some very fantastic stuff. Rich and affluent still existed, but everyone had a net so they could start from a decent foundation and move up, verses fall into the cracks that is capitalism.

just my views...but ya, the difference between something working and something not working can very much depend on wartime or peacetime.

Look at places like somolia...very much a capitalist dreamland..no goverment to speak of, and only a couple people have all the money and power...because they built it that way.
I don't see somolia as a paradise by any measure...they could do with a strong socialism to get resources spread around and the population stable.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

These groups aren't CIA invented, they were simply supported by the CIA in the war against the USSR.

The Taliban set up training camps for terrorists, because they firmly believe that Islam should be the religion of the world over, as long as they have to wage war, they will wage war.

You need to readjust your talking points...the taliban is now being talked to by the states to take over the security of the country...isn't that a kicker

I think your confusing the taliban with al-queda

As far as the men who have fought to secure our liberties, I am talking about the men who fought the revolutionary war, and all the wars to defend our nations sovereignty and liberties, and then there are all the union workers who fought to bring in protection for workers, and on and on.

Lets see
As far as the revolutionarys that founded the country..props to them.
As far as union workers go...well, you must be quite upset at the right trying to dismantle unions then.
I know I am...

Sorry, but you take your liberty for granted, and that is not a good thing.

No, I see liberties are being pushed aside for the argument of safety.
I see wars, patriot acts, many alphabet agencies working under the guise of homeland security clamping down on the citizens in the name of safety to be a slap in the face of the original idea for this country

and I see threads like this, that want to silence a group of people because of their belief, to be absolutely a destroyer of the whole concept

I disagree, I do not take my liberty for granted, I take my liberty seriously, and I am frustrated that some idiots would gladly toss it away to feel safer. Either we stand for something, or we fall for anything...I am not falling for the concept that, just because some retarded religion wants to turn the country into a slaugherhouse, it will somehow be able to pass legislation destroying the consitution...people think stupid thoughts all the time (check ATS threads...you will find a bucket full of them)..this thread is cheering on the concept that we can silence thoughts that go against our comfort level.

Those people take our libertys for granted.