Herman Cain: Communities have right to ban mosques

Originally posted by disasternaut
reply to post by KrazyJethro

 

I believe the voice of the people should listened to at all times; If people disagree with something they should be listened to or at least their opinions considered. If it became rule that a church couldn't be in a city I would just worship in my own home with friends or something to that effect. [though I doubt this would happen; we're still a Christian nation].

There is a reason our constitution protects a minority.

Here's what happened in my SW Arizona town. A mosque was planned. Christians found a loophole (historical site location) and marched in mass on city hall. Other churches in the area after finding out what happened - - - offered their space for worship - - until a new location could be found - - and a mosque built.

The mosque is now built.

Some God believers behaved in a Godly way - - - others did not.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by disasternaut
If it infringes on the tranquility of a sensitive area such as close to ground zero then I I'm with him on this.

Makes you wonder how many churches are nearby abortion clinics...talk about insensitivity

Yes.

Plus many of those of Islam faith also died at ground zero.

Originally posted by disasternaut
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

War is a horrible thing, but it is inescapable/needed at times. And I support the democratic process, it counters possible chaotic outcomes in my view. One more thing: it doesn't matter how many times you "throw flowers" at an enemy, so to speak, if they simply want your destruction. America isn't the powerhouse that is because we shy away from conflict; we are so because,if the need arises, we take charge and defend ourselves to preserve our free way of life.

There is just soo many wrongs in that paragraph I am not sure where to start.

well, at the beginning I suppose

1) America is a republic...the democratic process only is for nominating a representitive..not to actually weigh in on any real policy..democracy we are not, nor have ever been...its a republic.
I support (limited) democratic processes...I just wish it was a thoughtful process verses a game show. I do not support for everyone to vote...I think there should be an extensive test to become a citizen, and no, birth does not auto qualify you alone...people vote for stupid reasons and for politicians that either hype up pseudo-nationalism, or promise the chicken in every pot crap.

2) Yes, War is sometimes needed..such as the revolutionary war...and the civil war.
Explain to me in great detail why any war since then has been needed? Arguably world war 2 was not actually needed, but was the "right" thing to do...but it was highly debatable as to it effecting our freedoms or way of life. Hitler had no problem with the USA...hell, he liked it..came here a few times.

3) America isn't a powerhouse. We haven't won a war since WW2 (united effort, no single nation won it). We make big bombs, but we have no clue how to win a war...we just keep making things explode until people love us...and go figure, it isn't working.
We do not go to war to protect our freedoms...you honestly think Iraq was in a position to remove you from having your beer or watching nascar? nonsense...we go to war to fuel corporate entities wishes, and its sold to the people to wave a flag around and cheer for the war to protect our freedoms...ya, because some brown people in a foreign land want to destroy our applebee's.


Think for yourself...stop having "them" program you into what you think...its almost embarassing.

Originally posted by lifeissacred
The Hadith is not the Quran. The Quran (which is considered infallible) cannot be contradicted in favour of the Hadith.

The passage in the Hadith in which Muahammad ordered people he had forced to convert to Islam to be burnt to death from not praying does not contradict the Koran.

That particular Hadith text (Bukari) is sacred to Sunni Muslims who make up 80 to 90% of all Muslims globally.

Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.

Bukhari (11:626) -

"The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.'

The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

www.islam-watch.org...

Remember, under Islamic doctrine, Muhammad led a perfect life. To emulate Muahammad's acts as a Muslim is to also lead a perfect (Islamic) life.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I believe these ideas you're endorsing run counter to common sense and American integrity. Without a democratic process we wouldn't have any semblance of the political structure that allows the people to choose who they want for a leader. As far as the war issue goes we have always aided other countries in need; this helps in our coexistence with them. And how can you say we're not a powerhouse? We have always overcome in the face of adversity, save an instance or two where we were outnumbered. I have to say one more thing: It's sad that you perceive my patriotism as negative indoctrination versus wisdom of how wonderful this country is... I guess that if one has such disdain for our country and its policies they could relocate to somewhere that better accommodates their vision?

reply to post by poet1b


Do you support the spread of Islam's values under the guise of religion?

Do you favour women having fewer rights than men?

Do you believe in the stoning of women accused of adultery?

Do you supoort 100 lashes for people who have sex outside of marriage?

Do you want to stop the education of girls?

Do you oppose the freedom of expression and the press?

Are you in favour of women being forced to wear burqas in public places?

Do you discriminate against homosexuals?

Do you support polygamy?

Do you support child marriage (as carried out by Muhammad, blessed be his name)?

Do you believe that people who try to leave Islam should be killed?

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Because the rights of the minority must be protected from the will of the majority. It's one of the founding principles of this country along with freedom of religion and freedom of assembly.

I am surprised that you support the stoning of women for adultery (as pronounced by Muhammad, blessed be his name) and the death sentence for homosexual acts (as pronounced by Muhammad, blessed be his name) .

I am also surprised that you are a supporter of child marriage (as carried out by Muhammad, blessed be his name).

I am doubly surprised that you support the burning of people for not praying (as ordered by Muhammad, blessed be his name).

In an extremely surprised that you support the death penalty for leaving Islam (as ordered by Muhammad, blessed be his name).

Originally posted by disasternaut
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I believe these ideas you're endorsing run counter to common sense and American integrity. Without a democratic process we wouldn't have any semblance of the political structure that allows the people to choose who they want for a leader.

Yes, the democratic process allows us to choose representation. not to make policy.
The people don't know policy. Unless there is trivia on american idol, the average person's understanding of complex economic or social issues is almost always summed up in 3 words their head politician makes them chant during elections and not much deeper.

As far as the war issue goes we have always aided other countries in need; this helps in our coexistence with them. And how can you say we're not a powerhouse? We have always overcome in the face of adversity, save an instance or two where we were outnumbered.

We aid allied countries because they will aid us whenever we need them to..we invade areas that have resources that will benefit our corporations. There is a debate as to how much we should be interfering around the world, and if we are just making things worse.
We are not the world police overall, and we have quite often found out that our endless streams of money and bodies across the world equals absolutely nothing. Vietnam, Many african adventures, and now the middle east..all of it ultimately pointless. you would think we would eventually learn to let others sort out their own governments.

I have to say one more thing: It's sad that you perceive my patriotism as negative indoctrination versus wisdom of how wonderful this country is... I guess that if one has such disdain for our country and its policies they could relocate to somewhere that better accommodates their vision?

I have no issue with patriotism, I do however have a issue with blind nationalism.
My patriotism is in things like the space program and its accomplishments, our aid offered to other areas with no request for a return, the internet, progressive moments that have reshaped the world...I have no patriotism towards ongoing useless wars..I see that not as something to be proud of, war is just a big statement of failure...sometimes its necessary...rarely for us, and when we start blowing people up...that does not make me want to wave a flag.

Interesting how you see things though...according to your last sentence, you suggest if you don't like the policys, then leave...you realize in the republic, if you don't like the policys, you stand, voice your opinion, and change things.
That is what it means to be part of the west...not to just leave and accept the ignorance of others, but to yell against them and change things.
I am doing fine here..and yes, I do have the option to leave (not generally speaking, but literally...no, not many have the option to truely leave...just because you want to go doesn't mean other countrys will accept you...see mexican illegals for further understanding of that).
But, for now...I will stay and try to change mindsets into a more logical understanding. Our main export now is warfare and crappy hollywood movies...and frankly, our entertainment industry is starting to suffer...what does that make us? superheros of the world, or warlords...

Time to refocus on who we are as a people, what we stand for, and stop being a economy based on fear and xenophobia...

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Because the rights of the minority must be protected from the will of the majority. It's one of the founding principles of this country along with freedom of religion and freedom of assembly.

I am surprised that you support the stoning of women for adultery (as pronounced by Muhammad, blessed be his name) and the death sentence for homosexual acts (as pronounced by Muhammad, blessed be his name) .

I am also surprised that you are a supporter of child marriage (as carried out by Muhammad, blessed be his name).

I am doubly surprised that you support the burning of people for not praying (as ordered by Muhammad, blessed be his name).

In an extremely surprised that you support the death penalty for leaving Islam (as ordered by Muhammad, blessed be his name).

He isn't supporting anything beyond free speech.

Christianity is about a god whom wants you to murder your children to prove you like him (see Abraham).

All the stuff you mentioned...is illegal and should anyone try to actually do that, well, they will enjoy a nice long time in feddyville...as far as nutty religion concepts, its all the same, speak your nonsense as much as you want..say women whom wear makeup deserve death...but the second you target and conspire to do just that, then that goes from free speech and religion, into criminal activity.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Kitilani

 

Um, yo might want to get better informed. There are several threads where it is shows Imams preaching hate here in the U.S..

oldironsides-thesilentmajority.blogspot.com...

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Oh, and here is a site that encourages you to write your congressional rep..

www.radicalislam.org...

And in Europe, Muslim rape or non-Muslim women is epidemic.

fjordman.blogspot.com...

Um...last time I checked, someone else saying that you preach hate is not the same as planning attacks on the local community.
Um...last time I checked Europe was not in the USA so none of that applies either.

Now, can you address the actual question I asked?

Originally posted by CREAM

Originally posted by poet1b

Islam isn't a religion, it is an invading force masquerading as a religion.

We need to write new laws dealing with Islam, and its nefarious ways.

Things like honor killings, rapes of local girls, and forcing women to cover themselves should be treated like the criminal acts they are in full defiance of our beliefs and way of life. Mass numbers should be arrested, and mosque shut down when activities are found that aim to subvert local governments.

Either we take action or we will soon have the problems they are dealing with in Europe, India, Central Asia, Africa, and else where.

No, your wrong. Period.


I lived in a small village in Morroco (a Muslim country) for a month. It is a religion, they don't kill people over it where I was either. The most important belief in their religion is the same as Christianity, the belief in one God. As a white American, I experienced more hospitality there than anywhere in the US I've visited or anywhere I've visited in the rest of the world for that that matter. You just here about extremists when in reality most Muslims are like you and I.

That is because Morocco is an Arabic country with 99.1% Arab inhabitants with article 6 of the Moroccan constitution stating that Islam is official religion of the state.

Why would they need to 'invade' their own country?

Besides, 19% lived below the poverty line as we approached the millennium and if that is anything to go by then they were probably nice to you because they saw a 'white American' as you put it and knew you had money.

I don't see what the problem is. They want to build a place to worship? Let them.

Where does it say the church will be under Sharia law rather than our country's? It's like me turning my house into a place of worship for a religion I created and claiming that I only have to follow my laws. It's not going to happen.

You're supposed to have freedom of religion in this country. If you wanted to worship Satan, that'd be fine as long as you didn't sacrifice anything, right?

Ye gods, the Islamophobia in this thread is horrifying and disgusting in equal measure.

It's like the anti-Islam brigade have done the equivalent of looking at the KKK and deciding all Christianity is exactly like that, so must be stopped.

Radical Islam is the minority, it is to the Muslims what the KKK is to Christians.

Do we judge all Christians on the standards of the Klu Klux Klan? No. So why on earth do people judge all Muslims?

Originally posted by Painterz
Radical Islam is the minority, it is to the Muslims what the KKK is to Christians.

Yet in the last 10 years, Muslims have attempted to carry out all of the following acts of terrorism in the USA. The KKK hasn't.

• destroy the Brooklyn bridge

• blow up an Ohio shopping mall

• blow up the New York stock exchange

• blow up the NY subway

• blow up an Indian diplomat with a shoulder fired grenade launcher

• blow up National Guard facilities and synagogues in the LA area

• blow up the Wyoming natural gas refinery & the Transcontinental Pipeline

• set off a dirty bomb in the USA

• blow up the US Capitol and Word Bank Headquarters

• blow up the Sears tower in Chicago

• blow up NY city train tunnels

• set off hand grenades in a shopping mall outside Chicago

• conspiring to attack Fort Dix, New Jersey

• set off a TAPT bomb in the NY subway

• blow up a Dallas skyscraper

• set off a car bomb outside the courthouse in downtown Springfield, Illinois

• murder civilians in US shopping malls

• blow up “aviation fuel tanks and pipelines at the John F. Kennedy International Airport”

• shoot down planes with stinger missiles.

creepingsharia.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by Painterz
Ye gods, the Islamophobia in this thread is horrifying and disgusting in equal measure.

Are you an Islamophobe?

• Do you favour equal rights and treatment of men and women?

• Do you oppose stoning of women accused of adultery?

• Do you oppose the death penalty for homosexual acts?

• Do you favour mandatory education of girls everywhere?

• Do you support freedom of expression and the press?

• Do you oppose "honour killings"?

• Do you oppose polygamy?

• Do you oppose child marriage?

• Do you oppose the quranic mandate to kill people who leave Islam?

If you answered yes to any of those question, then congratulations, you are displaying Western values and are a confirmed Islamophobe.

Yet some people would have you believe that opposing stoning for adultery is somehow wrong.

That opposing the death penalty for homosexuals is somehow shameful.

That being against child marriages is wrong.

Go figure.

Being oppossed to the above Koranic/Hadith mandates isn't Islamophobic.

Its called having Western values.

You know. Thinks like not marying children, not killing people for being homosexual and not stoning women to death for adultery.

How shameful of us.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
He isn't supporting anything beyond free speech.

So if a group of Nazis said they wanted to kill anyone who left their group, kill homosexuals, stone women to death for adultery and marry children, that would just be freedom of speech?

I see.

Originally posted by Painterz
Ye gods, the Islamophobia in this thread is horrifying and disgusting in equal measure.

It's like the anti-Islam brigade have done the equivalent of looking at the KKK and deciding all Christianity is exactly like that, so must be stopped.

Radical Islam is the minority, it is to the Muslims what the KKK is to Christians.

Do we judge all Christians on the standards of the Klu Klux Klan? No. So why on earth do people judge all Muslims?

So it shouldn't be so difficult for you to demonstrate your assertion that radical islam is 'just a tiny minority'

Show me that only a few % of muslims believe in death for apostasy, or stoning, or homosexuality, or want to kill every jew on earth.

I can show you from reputable polls that just the opposite is true.

So when you have accepted the reality that there is no 'moderste Islam' - will you change your tune? and if so how?

Muslims have a right to build mosques. Muslims also have a right to practice their religion. However, Muslims do not have a right to establish a set of laws that supersede the laws and rights that are already in place.

Herman Cain's approach is misplaced. He's confused. This is an issue solely about Sharia Law, and isn't about Muslims building mosques, since Muslims have a right to build mosques.

Herman Cain is a racist of the worst kind. should we not allow churches to be built aswell due to all the negatives that goes with Christians ie pedofile priests, kkk, war mongers etc... mr Cain if you and your people are reading these words know this you are not better than anyone else everyone has the right to worship there god in there own way. now don't get me wrong I am not a fan of islam, in fact I have a few issues regarding islam that I wont go into here. but if the followers of islam live in any community they have the right to build a mosque so they can worship there god there way. you sir if you become president (won't happen) are the voice of the people. not some people or some business people. all the people (something all the presidents have forgotten once in office) you set the moral code and by denying any group there right to worship you are setting a very dangerous tone. denying any group based on your own personal distrust or hatred. not even 50 years ago similar sentiments would have been used against you mr Cain denying civil liberties to any group is a step back not forward. the jim crow days are over. are you trying to bring them back with a new group to hate. look in the mirror mr Cain. you are not better than anyone else you are the same loose your bloated ego and help your fellow man not hurt them. and by denying any group there right to worship you will be hurting them. and you sir would have no right to hold the office of president of these united states ...............................

reply to post by poet1b

So according to you and all the people who support your side of the argument, people don't have the right to defend themselves from an invading force, as long as it is done in the name of religion.

so, according to you, when the going gets tough - the tough: abandon their principals, abandon the way of life they claim they cherish, abandon the laws of this land they swear they will die defending - that others have died for

you don't have much faith in democracy, do you poet1b?

this invading force - how is it they're going to take over this country exactly? And - I'd like a real explanation please, because I'm just not getting it...

you say they're injecting sharia law into our culture...come again?

is there some kind of electoral or legislative osmosis at work here? Is it magic?

Often times, the way forward is hard to determine, but we must be willing to embrace the courage to seek the right decisions.

We have a right to defend our way of life, and sometimes that means doing things that we wish we did not have to do.

I wish I could conceive of better solutions.

no defense like a good offense - right? Let's skip ahead - define the enemy - declare a state of emergency - done. How do you feel about internment camps?

I mean - if you really feel that democracy isn't working quite the way you like - what's your better plan? What's your final solution?

could you live with the part you played in all this were it to happen? Words have power poet1b, and fear is an amazing tool

I'd like to think this sort of thing could never happen again - not in my country - not during my life time. But the way you talk - it makes me feel uneasy. I would feel only slightly better if I thought you weren't serious - but I know you are

you're a fine example of a true American poet 1b - you should be proud