Herman Cain: Communities have right to ban mosques

Originally posted by The time lord
I hear lots of people saying they have been to North Africa and the Muslims there are easy going, but has anyone here who is a Christian actually been there and spoken about their faith and share in the differences in belief face on? Maybe the non religious travellers have it easy, unless of course you go to places like Saudi Arabia and get caught kissing and hugging a women and you get sent to prison for a few months. Apart from that it seems atheists there have an easy time but if you carried a Bible or two at their air port or carried or preached about Christ in Morocco I do wonder what the outcome would be like. I am not judging the situation as probably these people who preach the Gospel in those northern countries have equal rights and respect by society as we do.

I could be wrong of course and that is fine but I have not heard these holiday goers in true faith actually open up about their religious differences to see what reaction people might get, of course all smiles on the outside as long as you go home afterwards.

On going research here are some articles.

Morocco

Christians in Morocco constitute approximately 1.1% (~380,000) of the country's population (34,859,364 - July 2009 est.).[1]

Article 6 of the Moroccan constitution states, that Islam is official religion of the state.[2] Christian communities can openly practice their faiths (freedom of worship is guaranted by the constitution), however distribution of Christian materials among the Muslims is illegal.[3] There were reports that some foreign missionaries were expelled from Morocco for distributing Christian materials[4] and proselytizing Muslims.[5]
en.wikipedia.org...
Text

Protestants number some 50,000 to 100,000 in Algeria. [7] This small population generally practices its faith without government interference.[8] However, converts from Islam can be exposed to the risk of attack by extremists.[8] Missionary groups are permitted to conduct humanitarian activities without government interference as long as they are discreet and do not proselytize openly.[8] Since 2006 missionary outreach among Muslims can be punished with up to five years of prison.[9] The Protestant Church of Algeria is a Reformed Church with about 10,000 members.[10] The Protestant Church of Algeria is one of only two officially recognized Christian organizations in the country. Most Christians meet in homes, to protect themselves, according to ICC. The country's Minister of Religious Affairs has called the evangelical churches "dangerous."

Christians have at times been subjected to religiously-motivated attacks. In 1996, Mgr Pierre Claverie, bishop of Oran, was assassinated by terrorists. This murder occurred soon after that of seven monks of the Trappistes of Tibérine, and of six nuns. It is worth noting that during that era, commonly known as the black decade, between 100,000 and 200,000 Algerians lost their lives.

en.wikipedia.org...
Text

Egypt

While the Egyptian government does not have a policy to persecute Christians, it discriminates against them and hampers their freedom of worship. Its agencies sporadically persecute Muslim converts to Christianity.[99] The government enforces Hamayouni Decree restrictions on building or repairing churches. These same restrictions, however, do not apply to mosques.[99]

The government has effectively restricted Christians from senior government, diplomatic, military, and educational positions, and there has been increasing discrimination in the private sector.[99][100] The government subsidizes media which attack Christianity and restricts Christians access to the state-controlled media.[99]
Text

I wonder how many Churches have been destroyed by Muslims over the years let alone hundreds of years, how many Churches in Europe are being converted to Mosques once Christians leave the area they live in or sell their homes to find a better area to stay in.

Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus

Turkish Republic of Northern CyprusTurkey invaded Cyprus in 1974. The United Nations has documented their systematic destruction of churches of the Church of Cyprus from 1974 though 2003.[177][178] Many churches were vandalized and their artifacts stolen.[179] Church mosaics and frescoes were removed and ended up in Europe’s black market or sold openly in specialist stores and auction-houses. Some churches were demolished and some have had their use changed to mosques and stables.[180]
Text

I could mention these countries in treatment of Christiandom.

Turkey
Nigeria
Philippines
Sudan
Somalia
Saudi Arabia
Pakistan
Iraq
Iran
Indonesia

And you wonder why some people call it Islamaphobia, I do not think Christian and Jews feel safe once Mosques are built near them. It comes at a price, hatred of freedom is taught behind closed doors the UK has witnessed such things, streets become full of Muslims praying on the ground blocking people from their own homes which happens in France. Then you get the extremists at work and all sorts of threats to deal with, main reason, because the divide in differences is so wide that it will one day cause conflicts.

But this is also why there is this conflict, if it is not here it is there and once the country becomes weak and free for all it could let in another system that will delete the harmony people fought for in the first place.

Do we blame people for speaking up about such issues, no one thinks long term anymore and where things might lead to.

Well when people are trained to be complete morons by the state schools and media this sort of thing happens. People cannot critically think anymore.. neither can they recall history. Something can be directly under their nose and in fact hit them in the face and they still do not understand what is happening around them.

The folks want to be accepting of people that want them dead? Go for it... less stupid folks around..

Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by ollncasino

 

You forgot to add that since 9/11 the USA and it's allies have been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslims (many of them innocent). We have dropped bombs on at least 4 Muslim countries. We prop up brutal dictators and exploit the Muslim world and you're surprised that some Muslims don't like us?

And YOU forgot to add that since 9/11 there have been no less than 17,470 deadly terror attacks around the world, all listed on the website called:
Islam, the Religion of Peace: Making a Difference in the World, One Body at a Time
www.thereligionofpeace.com...

There you will see their Weekly Jihad Report for July 9th- 15th:
Jihad Attacks 35
Allah Akbars 5
Dead Bodies 101
Critically Injured 264

and other interesting facts like this one:

More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.

Our interference and suppression of the Islamic world is what motivates the hostility against us.

No, history shows that Islam has been trying to brutally conquer all other nations for the past 1400 years.

reply to post by ollncasino

What great religion originated the term “jihad,” which means a permanent holy war against non-Muslims?

The word Jihad means struggle, nothing more. When there is a reference to war in the Quran the word Jihad is NOT used. Muhammad himself stated that war is a 'lesser Jihad' and the greater Jihad is a personal jihad. The word means struggle, nothing more.

What great religion has been fighting the West for the last 1,300 years?

Who started the fight? Was it Muhammad when he started to preach? Or was is the Christian empires when they declared Islam heresy and declared war against them? Refusing to allow Muslims refuge when they were persecuted.

Don't forget that for at least 1000 years Christianity has been at war with itself. East vs West, Protestant versus Catholic. When the crusaders marched into the holy land they didn't just kill all Muslims they came across, but anyone who didn't submit to the Roman church.

• What great religion since the mid-600s persecuted, executed, tortured, taxed, enslaved, beheaded and, more recently, bombed those who do not subscribe to their faith?

Christianity? They've been persecuting since they seized the remnants of the Roman empire. Executed all who didn't submit to the Church, tortured heretics, taxed everyone, enslaved millions, and as for recent history? The ethnic cleansing in the Balkans could be pointed too, or Bush's 'Crusade' (his words) in Iraq?

Of course it happened in ALL religions, that is what religion does. It help's assert the authority of the ruling class onto everyone else. All religions are exactly the same in this regard.

• What great religion enslaved 17 million Africans and 1.25 million Europeans

Forgetting our own history there pal? The USA and Europe took many more slaves, justified their slavery with the Bible etc

What great religion occupied Spain for centuries?

Depends how you look at it, Christianity was originally enforced by an invading population, later the peoples of the Iberian peninsula were subject to a Muslim ruler. The Islamic rulers built and developed Spanish society and there was a culture of tolerence. This all came to an end with the 'reconquista' and all Jews, Muslims and Christians not subject to Rome were forced to leave, forced to convert or were killed.

• What great religion now occupies 2/3s of the old Christian world?

Such a pointless arguement to make, all Muslims were converts. The peoples of the 'old Christian world' likely converted to Islam. They aren't 'occupied'. In that sense you could argue that in European Christians 'occupy' the 'old pagan world', but like I said it's a pointless arguement.

What great religion occupied Southern Europe for centuries?

Again a pointless arguement, in the days of empire nations and peoples were conquered, it's how the world used to be. Catholics conquered eastern Christians and Muslims, Protestants conquered Catholics etc.

What great religion besieged Vienna twice?

Ahh the siege of Vienna, the east's response to invasions of the Muslim world. Again it's the same narrative as the rest of the points I've made, empires fought for control. Which religion it was is not the issue since ALL religions done exactly the same.

What great and peaceful religion orders the killing of any individual who attempts to mock or draw a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed or question the veracity of the Koran?

None, there are many historical pictures of Muhammad found in Persian and Ottoman artwork.

What great religion promises 72 awaiting virgins in paradise for a young man to strap a bomb to himself and take as many innocent lives with him as he can?

None, Muslims believe killing innocent will be judged with the severity as if you killed all of humanity. Suicide is a sin that a person is unable to repent from since they cannot ask for forgiveness once they are dead.

• What great religion teaches that deception is appropriate when it furthers their cause?

None as far as I'm aware, Islam teaches that a Muslim can withhold the truth in the cause of peace and settling arguements, is that what you're refering to? Also they're allowed to hide their Islamic identity in order to save their own lives and flee persecution.

Under what great religion does the U.S. hold the title, “The Great Satan”?

Again, none. Some Muslims have a negative view of America (and some do refer to it as satan or evil) because of western foreign policy and support for oppressive regimes which result in the death of many Muslims. I believe we have already discussed this albeit briefly.

• What great religion systematically defaces, destroys and builds over historical and archeological sites to remove any reminder of their existence (particularly Christian and Jewish sites)?

I believe that goes both ways, Cordoba mosque is now a Cathedral and Muslims are banned from praying within. After the war in Bosnia in the occupied part of it almost every Mosque was destroyed. Let's not forget the 'excavations' done under the guise of archaelogy which are systematically weakening the walls of one of Islam's most holy sites in Israel/Palestine.

Anyway, consider this my last post on the subject, there's no point in debating people who have their mind made up and search for the narrative which fits their prejudices best.
Religion is oppressive and a force for empire and conquest. Islam is no different from any other religion in that regard. All are misused and twisted for geo-political gain. Persecution of one religion is not going to make the issue go away, it will make it worse.

Originally posted by lifeissacred
The word Jihad means struggle, nothing more.

Yet, 97% of Jihad Passages in the Koran are Violent

www.answering-islam.org...

Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by ollncasino

 

A minority of a minority scare you.

No, here is how it works:

As long as the Muslim population remains under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens.

- At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

- From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply.

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish sharia law over the entire world.

- When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. ...car burnings, uprisings, threats. [They also begin seizing control of whole streets by mass prayer 5 times a day, as is happening now in France]

- After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

- At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare.

- From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of nonbelievers of all other religions (including nonconforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of sharia law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels.

- After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim.

- 100% will usher in the peace of “Dar-es-Salaam” — the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen & Saudi Arabia, where Holy Christian Bibles are regularly confiscated and burned.

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.


(Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat)

Originally posted by lifeissacred
Forgetting our own history there pal? The USA and Europe took many more slaves, justified their slavery with the Bible etc (what a surprise....:

No, actually, the Arabs were bigger slavers than the Europeans.

Scholars estimate that about 12,000,000 Africans were sold by Africans to Europeans… …and 17,000,000 were sold to Arabs.

www.scaruffi.com...

Originally posted by ollncasino Yet, 97% of Jihad Passages in the Koran are Violent www.answering-islam.org...

And pretty much all of them are in relation to the wars the Muslims faced after the migration from Mecca to Medina where they were faced with total war from the Quraysh tribe and their allies.

reply to post by ollncasino

No, actually, the Arabs were bigger slavers than the Europeans. Scholars estimate that about 12,000,000 Africans were sold by Africans to Europeans… …and 17,000,000 were sold to Arabs.

That matters why? Both 'traditions' (Christian and Muslim) took millions of slaves, both were expanding empires. As I've been saying all along, religion IS a force for oppression, but it's not exclusive to one or the other.

Originally posted by lifeissacred
And all of them are in relation to the wars the Muslims faced after the migration from Mecca to Medina where they were faced with total war from the Quraysh tribe and their allies.

What, like the time Muhammad ordered people burnt for not praying?

Bukhari (11:626) - "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

www.islam-watch.org...

By the way, the Bukari is a religious Hadith text which is sacred to Sunni Muslims who make up 80 to 90% of all Muslims globally.

reply to post by ollncasino


The Hadith is not the Quran. The Quran (which is considered infallible) cannot be contradicted in favour of the Hadith.

reply to post by lifeissacred


Actually we defeated ancient enemies that had been trying to conquer us for a thousand years, when we finally conquered the Middle East and Islam. We stopped their aggression for the most part against all of their neighbors, and stopped their incessant taking of slaves.

Islam has always been the aggressor, and continues to be the aggressor. The question is, why do we put up with their practices?

The intentionally segregate themselves from the main community, primarily to keep their women under tight control, because they know given a chance, their women will leave them and join western culture. Then they turn their women into baby making machines to achieve their ultimate goal, to conquer our culture and turn us into Muslims.

Islam is an invading force, not a religion, and it is time we woke up to the reality.

reply to post by poet1b

The intentionally segregate themselves from the main community, primarily to keep their women under tight control, because they know given a chance, their women will leave them and join western culture. Then they turn their women into baby making machines to achieve their ultimate goal, to conquer our culture and turn us into Muslims.

Seriously, talk to some Muslims, go to a part of your country with a population of Muslims and you'll see how NORMAL they are. You're afraid of an enemy that doesn't exist. People just want to get on with their lives, Muslim and non-Muslim alike. This media drive witch hunt is making things worse, not better.

reply to post by lifeissacred


Oh, but I have, quite a bit, and that is why I say what I say. Yes, they are friendly to your face, but if you talk to them long enough, you will realize that they have many very biased views, especially against Jews and women. Sure they are nice to your face, but what they are thinking inside is very different. Not all Muslims are this way, but quite many.

Have you ever read their propaganda material. They paint us as white devils, who stole all that we own, which means to them, they have a right to take what is ours, because we stole it from them. You will see the patterns in the things that they say which reveal their true opinions. You will see their biases in talking about other groups. They have been programmed since they were children to believe these things.

Can you imagine what our founding fathers who wrote the constitution are thinking in their graves right now? If they were alive today,you can rest assure there would be no mosques after the terrorism .This shouldnt even be an issue.Of course there should be no mosques in the united states.All ties should be cut with pakistan for harboring bin laden immedietely

Originally posted by CREAM
The Bible also says a lot of messed up stuff too, like that adulterers should be stoned to death and slavery is OK. But yet no one is calling for the ban of Christian churches.

Maybe that's because, unlike Muslim imams, no Christian clergy are exhorting their congregations to go out and kill unbelievers TODAY, or urging them to stone adulterers and take slaves TODAY, like that female Kuwaiti politician who recently called for Muslim men to be allowed to kidnap western women and keep them as sex slaves, because it's all allowed in Islam !!!

I liked ElectricWizard's simple way of putting it: "The folks want to be accepting of people that want them dead?"

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by lifeissacred

 

Oh, but I have, quite a bit, and that is why I say what I say. Yes, they are friendly to your face, but if you talk to them long enough, you will realize that they have many very biased views, especially against Jews and women. Sure they are nice to your face, but what they are thinking inside is very different. Not all Muslims are this way, but quite many.

Have you ever read their propaganda material. They paint us as white devils, who stole all that we own, which means to them, they have a right to take what is ours, because we stole it from them. You will see the patterns in the things that they say which reveal their true opinions. You will see their biases in talking about other groups. They have been programmed since they were children to believe these things.

Well said! Another astonishing thing I learned is that they actually recommend NOT converting too many infidels to Islam in the "conquered" countries, otherwise there will be no one left to enslave or parasitize, no one left from whom to kidnap the strongest, brightest sons (see "devshirme" in the Balkans), no one left to pay the "jizya" tax, no one left to kick around or spit upon, no one left to collect the garbage like the Coptic Christians do in Egypt, no one to call "pigs and dogs", no infidel women to rape, and the poor ickle Muslims will lose their easy source of income and have to work for a living.

In other words, they warn against "killing the Goose that lays the Golden Eggs"---that's us, folks!

Are Sunni Muslims really the problem?
Cultural terrorism and wahhabi islam

You can watch an entire indigenous islamic culture getting wiped out by fellow wahhabi islamists in the Bosnian war through documentarys, and watch as it's spreads right into caucus' through the Chechen war. The same is happening in some chinese muslim groups, but harder to find info on. Although, having anything religious gets you a beatdown in china.

Most recently, Uyghur protesters have used more violent forms of terrorism to make their views known, including bus bombings. This has led China to respond with harsh crackdowns on the population, calling such incidents acts of terrorism. China has said that hundreds of Uyghurs have been trained by the Al-Qaeda terrorist network in Afghanistan.

Uyghur groups have criticized China for manufacturing a connection between the global war on terror and the Uyghur fight for independence. Many also criticize China for religious repression and Chinese economic policies that have led to an influx of Han Chinese to the region in the last 20 years.

But, what do you know, strange new stategy similar to the caucas' region. Wonder if they have any new Imams(or whatever the spelling is)?

reply to post by poet1b


So according to this guy (and you apparently) it's okay here in the USA for people to prevent the free exercise of religion and trample on one another's first amendment rights (to both peaceful assembly and religious expression) as long as its the communities decision?

In that case I suppose you'd support communities banning Christians (or any other non-Muslim religious group) from setting up church's to meet in as well? If so good. I'm gonna get some of my atheist friends together and set up a community where all forms of religious expression are banned...

Oh wait, no I'm not, because I care about freedom and the Constitution.

Cain's got a point, Islam isn't just a religion, it also consists of required law and seeks to establish a state within a state, and this shouldn't be allowed.

So paranoia about Shariah law is a good enough reason to remove the rights of Muslim Americans to exercise their religion? No, the man doesn't have a point and his attitude sickens me to my core. You know the Bible has lot's of laws in it as well, such as mandates to stone a woman if she's not a virgin on her wedding night. How many Christians and Jews living in America follow that verse? None last I checked and if they did they'd be arrested. Are we going to ban Christians from setting up Church's because of unpleasant aspects of Biblical law?

I may not agree with religion on most points but I also know that it's everyone's right to believe and exercise their religion if they have one and that the rights of the minority MUST be protected from the will of the majority.

Herman Cain and those that think like him

I have too agree that people have the right to make up their mind if they want a mosque in their area,but if muslims are a majority in that area you cant say they cant have a mosque becuase when they are a majority,they make up the people of that area,you should have never let these people in your country to begin with,dont blame muslims,blame the people who let them in,you have too live with multiculturism now what ever the outcome is,Anti racism and political correctness rule the day

Again dont blame muslims,blame the people who invited and encouraged them to come to america

Originally posted by KDM_Souljah
you have too live with multiculturism now what ever the outcome is

No, we do NOT have to live with multiculturalism, now or ever, and do you know why?

Because "Multiculturalism" is just "Cultural Marxism" in disguise, and Vladimir Lenin himself recommended to his followers that they ally themselves with Muslims in order to destroy western civilization from within, by encouraging mass immigration of Muslims, and allowing Muslims to frighten and subdue the populations, so the Marxists could take over.

So NO, we do NOT have to accept the destruction of our own civilization, we do NOT have to lick the jackboots of Islam, and as the great Fjordman wrote, "Islam Must Be Expelled from the West".