We used to have a system that has been long abandoned that provided free housing, free healthcare, free food, free water, free clothing, and guaranteed work. The amazing part is that it did not rely upon any currency or monetary system which means if we were to re-implement it we could do away with the deficit and debt overnight.

I have heard the slow drum and rhythmic repetition from my compatriots. Americans seem to all agree that all of the above need, nigh, must, be provided by the government in order for us to once again become a civilized society. Therefore, I have scoured history in an attempt to find such a system that will not collapse in upon itself due to accumulating debt or inflation. I believe I have found just such a system!

This system was tried again and again throughout history. The main antagonists of the system were those that sought to increase the size of their wealth generating enterprises by introducing monetary systems which they alone could control and take advantage of. The decline started in earnest after the Renaissance.

The system can be traced back to Ancient Persia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, and even China. A more recent example though can be traced back to northern France in the eighth century. A more well established individual would take responsibility for many weaker and less established individuals. Providing them with education and training, housing, access to healthcare, food, water, clothing, and guaranteeing them work. The people were divided up based upon their efforts and responsibility.

4th Degree Citizen - Those lost souls that could not care for themselves would enter the system at this point and would be given protection as well as clothing, food, water, access to healthcare, and housing.

3rd Degree Citizen - Those that proved themselves as responsible care takers of what they were given would then be elevated from the 4th Degree and given better assets as a reward for their growth as individuals.

2nd Degree Citizen - Those that were in a transitional stage to becoming 1st Degree. This would be a sort of proving ground to ensure that they had the capacity to help themselves and also to help others. They would be given more responsibility and assets to accomplish the assignment.

1st Degree Citizen - Those granted the harsh responsibility of attending to the needs of others but still under management tutelage themselves. They would be given the most assets and responsibility.


I changed the actual names because we have been taught by those that seek to control us, ever since the Renaissance, that this is a perverted system. Instead, we have been told that that we have no rights to any of the above, that we have to work every day for wages that barely sustain us as well as pay taxes to them or we will be imprisoned or starved -- all to ensure that the super-wealthy can benefit off the labor of all of society and in doing so grow to heights of wealth unseen in history.

You might be thinking - yes but in a society without monetary assets how is a person punished for committing a crime like growing unsightly vegetables? First, lets keep in mind what happens in society today - lets take a simple vegetable farmer that plants their vegetables in the sight of their neighbors. That person is cited and fined, and then if the fine is not paid, arrested, charged, and entered in to the criminal system. A record is placed on that person for all future employers to consider stating that the person has been convicted of a crime and is a criminal. An employer having many potential candidates then pushes that person aside and selects someone that has better conformed to what is 'suitable' in society. The criminal then remains unemployed and can no longer pay for their basic services - like food, water, housing, and clothing. They continue this short spiral downward. The tax collectors (which we call police officers) start to recognize this dreg of society as and so find more and more reasons to enter them back in to the prison system (where they can be cared for because we all know people live longer in prison than on the streets).

So, if a person cannot stand on their own two feet today, the government finds a way of arresting and punishing them. All of their rights are forfeited and the government provides no means of restoring the person's confidence in themselves or society. As a person falls down the ladder of success in current society there are no rungs to climb back on - they just fall deeper and deeper in to poverty and are increasingly harassed by the legal system.

In this rediscovered system the worth of the individual is immediately recognized and they are given all of the tools needed to restore themselves without tax-collecting punitive measures. Now, of course, as this system is primarily free of the limits of monetary control we cannot punish the person economically as we do today (thereby ensuring their continued decline). Instead we would have to lash or otherwise reprimanded them to correct their reckless and anti-social behavior.

This system is of course - Feudal Serfdom with its peasants lumped in to Freemen (1st Degree), Villeins (2nd Degree), Cottagers (3rd Degree), and Slaves (4th Degree) and the well-established were called Masters.

Therefore, I ask - did the slave owners have it right all along? Is the end goal of this government we are constructing to labor-slave all of us to the super-wealthy? We won't have to worry about our mortgages as that one woman shrieked in 2007 at the sight of Obama. We won't have to worry about anything. It'll all be given to us.

I just ask you to consider that when your government gives you everything how will they punish you? If currency is destroyed then how will you pay for your transgressions against the system? What is the difference between millions of black men in prison in 2011 and millions of black men working on farms in the south in 1811? What is the difference between the Sheriffs that enforced this slavery and those that do so today? The idea of the police Protecting and Serving was short lived and is now long dead - what we see today are nothing more than the tax-collectors of the 700's.

Before you reply - I'm not seriously proposing that we revert to the above system. I aim only to point out that we are being pushed in to it now by our leaders regardless of their party affiliation. Have you noticed all of them are multi-millionaires working for multi-billionaires? How many of us will be in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th Degree is the only question that remains. The only commonality is none of them are truly free.

The government doesn't need to...and shouldn't....provide those things. You should provide them for yourself.

Anything the government is now trying do...we've let them do it. More than that...we've encouraged it. There is no one to blame but ourselves.

Excuse my typos. If you think about, what happened was that we still live in a Feudal society. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th levels were eliminated and replaced with prisons and everyone became a freeman paying rent. If you could not stand as a freeman you are now just thrown away in to prison.

See, back then with people in short supply, people were valuable. Now - if you commit an offense you are expendable and can just be thrown away and locked up.

So which system is more civilized? We've been taught slavery is as evil as evil can get - but it seems to me it at least recognized that people have value.

Both systems are terrible - but having thought about this and seeing more and more common-sense and law-abiding people locked up for ridiculous offenses I would rather be in a system where one could work their way back up rather than lose everything at the whim of a bureaucrat.

Methinks you're on the right path, alas, the cattle that the masses are, will not take too kindly to the idea. I like the idea myself. As long as the gates between classes are not locked against those who would better themselves and rise in status, the concept is sound. There will always be those who will refuse to learn or work, and I fully believe that these drains on society should A. Be sterilized and B. Forced into productivity for those who do work. I don't care about the color of skin, age, religion or sex. Being a leech on the arse of society is a decision made between the ears, a choice, yes a choice to be a drug addict, alcoholic, a criminal. Except for the very few, no one held these losers down and forced a needle into their veins, no one made them drink the alcohol. There are so many stories of men and women who rose above their terrible circumstances to be more than their peers. If one can do it, all can do it. If they are ignorant, teach them. If they are sick, treat them and heal them. If they are broken, fix them. If they still refuse to rise, dispose of them. Can you imagine how much dead weight we would be free of? I know I sound like a monster, but perhaps instead of coddling these creatures, its time to do away with them. How many social species do you know take care of a leech among them for more than a short time? Even though my son is disabled, he is and will continue to be a productive member of society. Those who are disabled beyond help should yes, be cared for and loved, never to fall victim to the leeches. Those who are too broken to work, but worked before should be honored for their contributions. Those who learned but found no jobs in their chosen field should find another profession. The only limitations on a fully functioning human being are found within the spirit. Refuse to work, refuse to be productive, then we refuse you the right to breed, to benefit from our efforts.

I second the notion that your personal well being and lot in life is your responsibility, not mine.

Take care of yourself. Stop trying to get the Govt to take what I have to give to you.

I don't want anyone to provide anything for me, I want to be left alone to provide for myself.

2nd

After reading all of this I'm not sure I really get what it is you want.

What do prisons have to do with productive members of society? The ones in prison are generally those who steal, murder or harrass other honest, hard working members of society. Sure there are people in prison who do not deserve to be, generally those one minor drug convictions, but the vast majority of these people are a burden on society and are exactly where they should be.

I work, pay my taxes and have made a successful life for myself. What is it YOU really propose we do to change our society? Socialism?

And I also second the idea that the government should never be responsible for my well being or financial stability. The less they interfere in my life the better. I will be responsible for my income, my home and my life in general, thank you very much.

All the government is there for is to pave my streets, organize and build infrastructure and protecting our borders and streets.

I don't know what else to add. I want to provide for myself and for my family. To have everything provided would, in my humble opinion, inhbit the ego, the drive, the stresses that cause innovation, creation.

What makes us s great is that sometimes we have to go hungry, go homeless, get cold, in order to build and grow.

Back in the 18th through the early 20th century, people for the most part were able to take care of themselves without government intervention. So what changed? Technology changed but that should have made life easier. All it did was make people lazy and the community became nothing more than strangers living next door. Before the 50s people would sit on their porches and talk to one another because it was too hot to be inside. Once AC was invented, everyone just stayed inside. The government found it alot easier to control the masses as technology grew. What better way to keep your thumb on the people then by exploiting laziness or under the guise of security. You've just grabbed a majority of the populus under both those descriptions. The only way to get back to the days where you were left alone to take care of you and your family is to put the government back in check and keep them in check. One quote from one of our founding fathers was very correct; There will have to be a revolution every generation in order to maintain a free society.

The government can NEVER provide anything for free. Someone must be robbed by the government before it can squander the money it has stolen.

a rather thought provocative view on the cast system

the way you have it stated with people rising up from the ranks due to diligence and service, unfortunately is NOT the way it worked in a perfect world of altruism it MIGHT stand a chance but unfortunately greed tends to be written in our dna somehow.

what realty happened was that you ended up being born into whichever class you were part of. now there were most likely SOME who would get promoted up in the classes, but i fear it was rather hard to come by. the main problem being the same as it is today. the fact that many at the TOP, are the wrong ones to begin with, just as much of upper management is today. thus promoting NOT based on merit but those who were your "friends", aka a$$ kissers, "yes men", and users. again just like today

now if the person at the top was a fair and just person, things would generally be good for those under them. the area could and would thrive and grow. the people would be content, and even prosper. pretty much as close to utopia as you could get (of course there would always be some dissenters but they would mostly be drowned out by everyone else).

sadly tho a fair chunk of these so called betters suffered from greed. they would "tax" heavily and even toss you out if not making enough for them. thus things could and did get VERY BAD for the people. keep in mind that if dissatisfied you couldn't say try to "vote" them out, but would have to kill them off probably their entire family as well (don't want the tyrants son to come back years later to get revenge and reclaim his birth rite). guess who had the weapons and equipment to fight? not the commoner that's for sure. hmm didn't ninjitsu come about due to this type of thing? the common person fighting the "evil and corrupt" samurai class?

in all honesty MOST systems of government are actually good and everyone should thrive in them. unfortunately human greed always enters into play not just at the top where someone may want power who cares about the peons after all aren't they there to serve MY needs?. but right down to the bottom where you have someone wanting to do nothing but have everything provided to them. if you relay think about it almost ALL problems are caused by greed in one form or another. everyone has greed at SOME level, i am no exception, no one is. after all were only human.

if you want a good read that deals in part with the cast system. it hits both good and bad parts of it. i would suggest the Pern series by Anne McCaffrey, i don't know if it was intentional but it does do a good job of pointing out some of the pluses and minuses to the cast system. especially how it starts as an altruistic societal move to protect people from danger. moving to become a "bound in stone" traditional system where you are BORN to your station in life.

What you are proposing is the opposite of freedom, it is demeaning to all, sets people where you think they should be instead of what they can accomplish.

Best to start with everyone as equal with equal opportunity, then let each one succeed or fail, it is only up to them. Success is hard, failure is easy. Too many blame others for failure or their misfortunes instead of looking within.

Poverty is the reward you receive when you fail to succeed in life.

Originally posted by chuckk
What you are proposing is the opposite of freedom, it is demeaning to all, sets people where you think they should be instead of what they can accomplish.

Best to start with everyone as equal with equal opportunity, then let each one succeed or fail, it is only up to them. Success is hard, failure is easy. Too many blame others for failure or their misfortunes instead of looking within.

Poverty is the reward you receive when you fail to succeed in life.

Yeah, I guess all the people starving and dying around the world are failures and have not succeeded in life... What is your definition of poverty and becoming a successful person in life? Because not everyone does get the opportunities that we get in our countries...

Even some of the homeless in our countries choose to live that way, that does not make them a failure, they just chose to live that life... I would never want to be in that position and I hold alot of respect for people who have done it tough. Calling them a failure is not the correct term.

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