Religion Has No Place in a Public Education System.

The Bible, old and new testament both admonish parents to teach their children the word of the bible. Time and time again, it established that it is the responsibility of parents and parents alone to inculcate the word of god in their children's hearts.
There is a great push these days to force religious beliefs to be to be added to the curriculum in our schools, from the religious right and most conservative evangelicals.

The bible teaches that it is the parents who should be doing this not the schools. I propose that those who are attempting to get someone else to teach their children about religious beliefs such as the god concept, and creationism, faith, etc.are in fact bad Christians since they would rather their children learn all that from their teachers, shirking their parental responsibilities as set forth in the bible.

There is no need to even leap to the church/state argument, since the book that Christians hold most dear commands them to take the leading role in educating their children in "the ways of the lord".
Forcing schools to teach any religious belief is wrong, that is the role of the parents. Forcing schools to teach any bible based beliefs are a usurpation of parental responsibilities.
The only other reason Christians would want this to be taught in our schools is for proselytizing purposes and that makes it doubly wrong.

Below are a few excerpts from the bible to establish that it is never the schools job to teach creation, young earth or a god concept or anything biblical in fact.


Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it. - Proverbs 22:6 New International Version (©1984)

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. (6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (7) You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. - Deuteronomy 6:4-9 English Standard Version

Hear this, you elders; give ear, all inhabitants of the land! Has such a thing happened in your days, or in the days of your fathers? (3) Tell your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children to another generation.-- Joel 1:2-3 English Standard Version


Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. Ephesians 6:4 New International Version


MODS::: Didn't Know where to put this so i put it here feel free to move it with my thanks.

I feel the same way about teaching evolution.

Originally posted by NoClue206
I feel the same way about teaching evolution.

Do you really know what evolution is???? Or do you only know what you have been told by your religious doctrine?

I would say the latter, and would ask you to go look up the true theory of evolution

Creationism should not be taught in schools....i was forced to sit through Religious Education as a teenager at school....it didnt change my thinking about god, or the way the universe came to be.

Religion didnt interest me then and never has or will in the future.
Kids minds are fragile and shouldn't be abused by organized religion!

Originally posted by NoClue206
I feel the same way about teaching evolution.

Evolution is based on Science, and there is much evidence to back it up.
are you saying Science has no place in schools?
Nowhere do i mention evolution in the OP that is off topic and has no place in this thread.

I am asking how Christians can justify their attempts to push creationism and god into a forum where it clearly does not belong, public schools.

Religion has no place in society outside the family.

Religion is best kept to ones self, it does nothing but cause war and conflict outside the personal level.

Public Education has no place in US Society.
Government Schools did not come into existence until the late 1800's just as a convenience to the US citizens.

Now it's mandatory to go to government schools with forced learning of stupid things (like the history of Gay people now required in California).

Divide up the school money into voucher form, hand it out to the parents, and let them choose which school gets the money to teach their children.

Originally posted by chuckk
Public Education has no place in US Society.
Government Schools did not come into existence until the late 1800's just as a convenience to the US citizens.

Now it's mandatory to go to government schools with forced learning of stupid things (like the history of Gay people now required in California).

Divide up the school money into voucher form, hand it out to the parents, and let them choose which school gets the money to teach their children.

And just pray tell us where did you learn to read and write? private school perhaps?

if coes down to no one has any proof of god just words on paper and out of mouth so proof no way

I've taught for 20 years and I see no push for religion in the public schools apart from the student's choice to exercise freedom of expression and liberty in speech. Students do not shed their rights when they walk into a public place or institution. Section 242, Title 18 of US Code guarantees that a school cannot stop their free exercise of freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. As for the teacher, this is different.

I cannot bring my religious views into the school, except by historical reference of by my character. I can mention that people have faith in God, but I cannot represent myself as teaching the tenets of a religion. The reason for this is simple: None of us want someone else teaching our kids about faith. This is a family and individual matter. Parents are charged with the nurture of their children in matters of religious faith and the constitution is written to protect the individual form establishment of a state sponsored religion. It cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion anywhere, unless the exercise is considered coming from someone representing the colors of the state. This goes back to Title 18 of US Code. If I represent the colors of the law as a state employee, then I cannot deprive anyone of their rights.

I can, however, teach any philosophy from antiquity that I want. If I want to say that Confucius says, "Do not do unto another what you would not do to yourself," then I am perfectly within my bounds as a teacher. Just because Jesus said it doesn't make it religious. Confucius was not religious and said it 500 years earlier. I can quote anyone I want, even Muhammad if it is in a historical context and not a faith context. As long as I am not pushing a religion or trying to convince someone to believe, then I have academic freedom within some bounds.

Personally, I do not cross over into mentioning religion. I strive to be a living witness to the truths in the Bible from the standpoint of the seven virtues. This demonstrates the goodness of God and the Bible in the classroom every day. No need to talk about anything. Actions speak louder than words hands down.

I can guarantee you one thing: Seeing what I have seen over the years from teachers, you would much prefer a teacher living the seven virtues in front of your kids than a teacher living the seven vices as their example. No question that teachers have an influence on their students by example.

One problem we see in the world today is manifested by the problem of religion in the classroom. When we removed religion, we removed wisdom. Knowledge apart from wisdom is dangerous. We see the problems in society today manifesting from this lack of wisdom training. In other countries, they teach wisdom from martial arts. In America, we have cage fighting and football. My son takes Tao Kwon Do. The tenets produce wisdom and self-control:

Courtesy
(Ye Ul)
Integrity
(Yom Chi)
Perseverance
(In Nae)
Self-Control
(Guk Gi)
Indomitable Spirit
(Baekjul Boolgool)

We need a wisdom tradition in America, sorely.

Originally posted by CaDreamer
The Bible, old and new testament both admonish parents to teach their children the word of the bible. Time and time again, it established that it is the responsibility of parents and parents alone to inculcate the word of god in their children's hearts.
There is a great push these days to force religious beliefs to be to be added to the curriculum in our schools, from the religious right and most conservative evangelicals.

The bible teaches that it is the parents who should be doing this not the schools. I propose that those who are attempting to get someone else to teach their children about religious beliefs such as the god concept, and creationism, faith, etc.are in fact bad Christians since they would rather their children learn all that from their teachers, shirking their parental responsibilities as set forth in the bible.

There is no need to even leap to the church/state argument, since the book that Christians hold most dear commands them to take the leading role in educating their children in "the ways of the lord".
Forcing schools to teach any religious belief is wrong, that is the role of the parents. Forcing schools to teach any bible based beliefs are a usurpation of parental responsibilities.
The only other reason Christians would want this to be taught in our schools is for proselytizing purposes and that makes it doubly wrong.

Below are a few excerpts from the bible to establish that it is never the schools job to teach creation, young earth or a god concept or anything biblical in fact.


Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it. - Proverbs 22:6 New International Version (©1984)

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. (6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (7) You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. - Deuteronomy 6:4-9 English Standard Version

Hear this, you elders; give ear, all inhabitants of the land! Has such a thing happened in your days, or in the days of your fathers? (3) Tell your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children to another generation.-- Joel 1:2-3 English Standard Version


Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. Ephesians 6:4 New International Version


MODS::: Didn't Know where to put this so i put it here feel free to move it with my thanks.

edit on 15-7-2011 by CaDreamer because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by obzerver
if coes down to no one has any proof of god just words on paper and out of mouth so proof no way

We see proof every day. If I told you that a teacher is like God, then I am comparing what the teacher does for the student. A good teacher will strive to motivate a student to good writing skills for future opportunity. A defiant student can sit in the back of the class and ignore the virtues presented by seeking knowledge, but opportunity will knock only once in most cases. We see too many people with poor educations because they did not listen to their teachers. This shows up in the opportunities they provide for their future family. It is the same in religion. God strives to present truth and virtue for us so that we have a bright future. God honors, protects and defends virtue and truth. Without God, it is every man for himself from a platform of self-pride and ignorance. The proof comes from reading God's words and seeing the evidence. Look close, opportunity always follows virtue. Lost opportunity always follows bias against truth. God presents the truth with no error or compromise. He is a good teacher.

Are we good students by the fruit we bear to others?

reply to post by CaDreamer


Religious books are full of stories and possible myths. References are made to these stories in all forms of media. There are times when religious literature needs to be taught to kids to help them learn how to think. Star trek is full of religious myths. I translated Dante's Inferno in Latin class. It is a story about Hell.

reply to post by loves a conspiricy



So you just assume I'm religious because I don't think evolution should be taught in school?

how many parents do you think believe in Jesus or the Word of God that are currently teaching and how many parents taxes are paying these teachers? do certain folks honestly believe you can seperate them from speaking about what they believe or know regarding things like what life is all about in nations where they are free to do so without threat of some force?

Christianity is the predominant religion in Europe, Russia, the Americas, the Philippines, Southern Africa, Central Africa, East Africa and Oceania.[6] There are also large Christian communities in other parts of the world, such as Central Asia and the Middle East, where Christianity is the second-largest religion after Islam. The United States is the largest Christian country in the world by population, followed by Brazil and Mexico.[7]
en.wikipedia.org...

The bible teaches that it is the parents who should be doing this not the schools. I propose that those who are attempting to get someone else to teach their children about religious beliefs such as the god concept, and creationism, faith, etc.are in fact bad Christians since they would rather their children learn all that from their teachers, shirking their parental responsibilities as set forth in the bible.

reply to post by Rustami


You wrote:

["Christianity is the predominant religion in Europe, Russia, the Americas, the Philippines, Southern Africa, Central Africa, East Africa and Oceania.[6] There are also large Christian communities in other parts of the world, such as Central Asia and the Middle East, where Christianity is the second-largest religion after Islam. The United States is the largest Christian country in the world by population, followed by Brazil and Mexico."]

And what have these cosmetic 'statistics' to do with principles of education?

It's just propaganda-clichées, irrelevant to all facets of the topic, until a direct topic-connection is demonstrated.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


You wrote:

["If I told you that a teacher is like God, then I am comparing what the teacher does for the student."]

One very good reason to keep religious indoctrination out of schools, is mindsets such as demonstrated by this quote.

"If a teacher is like 'god'":

"Aaaargh" to the implied authority-obsession in such attitudes. Children should learn to accept differences, not to rely on hierarchial models.

Hierarchial attitudes originating from certain elitist religions or political ideologies, which no sugar-coating can disguise..

Please do not imply anything other than what I said. I was clear. I drew the comparison of God in the role of teacher, not the other way around. Context please... Quote in context:

"If I told you that a teacher is like God, then I am comparing what the teacher does for the student." 'For' and not 'to' the student. Twisting what I said to move your bias along is deception.

Love is what teacher does. Calm and Assertive, treating all as Equal. In my book, I outline how to preserve the dignity of all students on a level playing field. Here is an article I wrote about "Dealing With Criticism, Guilt, and Shame in the Classroom." LINK

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

You wrote:

["If I told you that a teacher is like God, then I am comparing what the teacher does for the student."]

One very good reason to keep religious indoctrination out of schools, is mindsets such as demonstrated by this quote.

"If a teacher is like 'god'":

"Aaaargh" to the implied authority-obsession in such attitudes. Children should learn to accept differences, not to rely on hierarchial models.

Hierarchial attitudes originating from certain elitist religions or political ideologies, which no sugar-coating can disguise..

edit on 16-7-2011 by bogomil because: spelling

reply to post by SuperiorEd


You wrote:

["'For' and not 'to' the student. Twisting what I said to move your bias along is deception."]

The twisting already started with the christian: "It's for your own good"-slogan, which recently has developed into contemporary self-proclaimed 'guru'-attitudes. The difference is semantic cosmetics. The content the same as always.

A school-teacher isn't and shouldn't be regarded as a 'god', .....allegorically, in inverted positions to an alleged 'god' or in any other similar verbal context whatsoever.

A public school-teacher has one function: To teach children a specific subject he/she is competent with, and hopefully include respect for co-existence.

If you don't like the way your allegories, parables, analogies, anectdotes or metaphors are interpretated, it may be a better communication-method to avoid any excess in that direction.

Quote: ["Love is what teacher does. Calm and Assertive, treating all as Equal. In my book, I outline how to preserve the dignity of all students on a level playing field. Here is an article I wrote about "Dealing With Criticism, Guilt, and Shame in the Classroom."]

Sounds nice, but vague, and has no bearing on teaching religion in public education.

Do you really think people are blind to your twisting of what I just said. Lets quote me from my article which I linked.

Feedback is part of a teacher's job as an educational facilitator. God is a facilitator of what He teaches as well--Love, dignity and honor for the class and teacher. This foundation allows all the opportunity afforded by a quality education. Only the student can place himself above equal opportunity to learn.

This is sound advice from the article I wrote based on God's example in His classroom:

1. Be the Bigger Person

The first step to success is to answer the main question: Why am I correcting this student? If the answer to this question is anything other than allowing the student to become a better person, then our motives are not true. If we are merely in a bad mood, wanting to take revenge or looking for someone to use as an example, then correction will only backfire. Revealing your contempt builds ground for the student to stand against you. Remaining calm and assertive will allow you to build ground for the student to walk with you.

2. Eliminate Bias

In his book, Verbal Judo, George Thompson says that it is important to eliminate bias in communication at all costs. A calm and assertive attitude will be the key to overcoming the natural gut reaction of the student. Keep your anger, harsh emotion and condescension out of your approach to discipline. Within the tone of your voice and the words you use, you can either turn off a student forever or create ground for him/her to walk with you. The inner voice is normally grumpy, so ignore it. Learn to control it and make it obey with positive intentions.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

You wrote:

["'For' and not 'to' the student. Twisting what I said to move your bias along is deception."]

The twisting already started with the christian: "It's for your own good"-slogan, which recently has developed into contemporary self-proclaimed 'guru'-attitudes. The difference is semantic cosmetics. The content the same as always.

A school-teacher isn't and shouldn't be regarded as a 'god', .....allegorically, in inverted positions to an alleged 'god' or in any other similar verbal context whatsoever.

A public school-teacher has one function: To teach children a specific subject he/she is competent with, and hopefully include respect for co-existence.

If you don't like the way your allegories, parables, analogies, anectdotes or metaphors are interpretated, it may be a better communication-method to avoid any excess in that direction.

Quote: ["Love is what teacher does. Calm and Assertive, treating all as Equal. In my book, I outline how to preserve the dignity of all students on a level playing field. Here is an article I wrote about "Dealing With Criticism, Guilt, and Shame in the Classroom."]

Sounds nice, but vague, and has no bearing on teaching religion in public education.

edit on 16-7-2011 by bogomil because: spelling and addition