I have a serious question about sun/moon position

I keep seeing these threads started where people are saying the sun or moon is out of place, the Innuit people are claiming the same. The response is that if they were out of place someone like an amateur astronomer would have noticed even if the gov't had not told us. I am just curious if all astronomers today are using computers and gps to guide their telescopes. And secondly has anyone used a sextant and an old paper chart to check if it is accurate. I tried googling and youtubing the subject, but can only find experimenting with location done by electronic means. Are these programs downloaded and updated regularly through government controlled data points? I'm not an astronomer or a sailor, so I don't know anything about it.

I don't know if Im correct in saying..but wouldn't we have known at the solstice last month? Aren't like a dozen places where the sun/moon/planets/etc go through the holes in monuments like stonehenge?

Maybe this was a stupid response...I don't know much about it.

reply to post by KSprepared


reply to post by KSprepared


Personally I think the sun and moon might be rising a little differently. I never have remembered a time when it was so hard for me to see the moon because the trees are blocking it. From what I have researched it seems that this may be true.



Here is a NASA article saying the Earth's Axis May have shifted.

www.nasa.gov...

Here is an article saying that the sunrise rose early in Greenland.

www.livescience.com...

People in polar regions would notice a slight shift in the axis the earth spins on more than the moderate or equatorial climates where most of the human population lives. And a shift in the axis would change exactly where the sun, moons, and planets rise.

As to the question as to whether the astronomers would notice, I believe they would. But I don't know if the change would make that much of a difference in their calculations. If they where viewing far off galaxies with expensive equipment, yes they would have to make some changes in calculations. I don't know any professional astronomer personally so, or I would have already posed that question to him.

As to paper charts of where the Sun/Moons/Planets are supposed to rise, I have would have to look in an astronomy book. Surely they have one at your local library. I have not been that far to do the by hand, drive by to the library research yet.

But in all likelyhood the earth has shifted, if these credible sources, and even the Innuit say so.

That's the best I know OP, I hope it was informative.

Right, I was just hoping we had a guy who knew his craft as a sailor or something that could do it the old fashioned way and put this subject to rest. I've heard anecdotal evidence everywhere, but no real science, only reliance on downloaded information to find an answer.

reply to post by KSprepared

And secondly has anyone used a sextant and an old paper chart to check if it is accurate.

that is a damed good point - and as i have done a RYA navigation course , i kick myself for not thinking of it - and including the argument in my thread or replies to others

of course there are , world wide hundreds of people every month who do navigation courerses for military naval , merchant marine and civilian sports yachting qualifications .

i am unsue what composes the syllabus for aviators navigation qualifications nowadays - but know an ats member who will know

and position fixes by sun / star sightings

scare mongerers will no doubt claim that " all military personel are part of the conspiracy " -

but how does one REALISTICALLY silience the civilians who do courses such as this ??

That's exactly what I was talking about. These guys will know if certain points or islands or whatever have moved when using a sextant to plot a course.

reply to post by KSprepared


Also gps guided equipment would be off until they change the orbits, they do that fairly regularly to avoid space junk.

GPS is owned and operated by the United States Government as a national resource. Department of Defense (USDOD) is the steward of GPS. (Wiki)

I will not trust GPS as a source.

You can check this YOURSELF tonight, for the moon.

The moons theoretical position, where it should be, is given by computers on many web sites.
heavens-above is just one example. It shows the moon at 02 UTC (about 1 hour 45 minutes from this posting) to be at
Right ascension 20h 39m 3s
Declination -14° 36' 54"
THIS PAGE has another calculator.

Now of course you can check this yourself on other websites. Because the moon moves fast through the sky, the exact time is critical. You also need to define your position on earth. The moon is close enough that viewers in different places on earth see the moon is a very slightly different location.

Now, print out a star map.
HERE is a free copy.
Mark where the moon would theoretically be, at your convenient time, for your location.

Go outside and have a look.
Report back to ATS.

I live on a boat in the Caribbean. I have a compass. I have an almanac. On paper, not disc. The Sun is rising right where it should.

I am near Chichen Itza. I was there on the solstice. Unless the whole pyramid has moved, the Sun rose and set right where it should have.

I am not a government shill. I hate the govt.

reply to post by KSprepared


While here is an online calculator. You can put your long, and latt in and find out.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.jgiesen.de...

If the earth has shifted certainly the azimuth would be different.

Originally posted by KSprepared
I keep seeing these threads started where people are saying the sun or moon is out of place,

Just another thought about the position of the moon.
Islamic people place great importance on the first observation of the cresent moon just after new moon. This is in order to define the start of the Islamic month.
THIS is just one of multitudes of websites that keep the millions of viewers informed of where the moon is in the sky and when it is most likely to be observed at the cresent.

If there was any abnormality, they would have noticed by now.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
I live on a boat in the Caribbean. I have a compass. I have an almanac. On paper, not disc. The Sun is rising right where it should.

I am near Chichen Itza. I was there on the solstice. Unless the whole pyramid has moved, the Sun rose and set right where it should have.

I am not a government shill. I hate the govt.

I think this answered the question. No reason not to believe this person.

2nd line.

I am a sundancer and have danced all over the us and I can tell you there is something different about the sun in the last few years have noticed that the sun feels different it hurts physically on my skin I do not know antway mto say it than that it used to soothe me now it just hurts has anyone felt the difference in how the sun feels peace hawk

reply to post by CaptChaos

I am not a government shill. I hate the govt.

oh wow, yeah that's the perfect thing to say if you were a MIB

on a serious note, our axis has shifted, so there's a possibility that some areas of the Earth will experience different risings and settings

reply to post by 1322hawk


It's definitively been brighter thees last few years, and yeah especially hotter this year.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by KSprepared

 

And secondly has anyone used a sextant and an old paper chart to check if it is accurate.

that is a damed good point - and as i have done a RYA navigation course , i kick myself for not thinking of it - and including the argument in my thread or replies to others

of course there are , world wide hundreds of people every month who do navigation courerses for military naval , merchant marine and civilian sports yachting qualifications .

i am unsue what composes the syllabus for aviators navigation qualifications nowadays - but know an ats member who will know

and position fixes by sun / star sightings

scare mongerers will no doubt claim that " all military personel are part of the conspiracy " -

but how does one REALISTICALLY silience the civilians who do courses such as this ??

Hahahaha...Yes I mentioned it in one of the threads about the same thing. Still laughing out loud.....

I trusted my education and science, so I had a cocktail in my hands watching the sunset, rather than a sextant!

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

Originally posted by rreeves5

It's definitively been brighter thees last few years

Do you have any evidence to back this up? Let's see your luminosity data.

Originally posted by Neopan100
I don't know if Im correct in saying..but wouldn't we have known at the solstice last month? Aren't like a dozen places where the sun/moon/planets/etc go through the holes in monuments like stonehenge?

Maybe this was a stupid response...I don't know much about it.

Good point... I do know that it was cloudy at sunrise for the Stonehenge solstice gathering-- the sun was not visible until halfway up into the sky. The Druids waited to see it and left without comment. (I know, that's an odd thing to say. I thought it was an odd thing to read when I read the article about it.)

Originally posted by Nobama
on a serious note, our axis has shifted, so there's a possibility that some areas of the Earth will experience different risings and settings

The shifting of our axis due to earthquakes and chandler wobble is measured in milliarcseconds, so it's not even detectable to most telescopes and several orders of magnitude too small to be seen by eye. I've measured the position of our axial tilt repeatedly and found it to be precisely where it should be to within 1.88 arcseconds, far better than you can see by eye.

I measured the position of the north celestial pole from the star USNO-A2 1725-00691811. Its J2000 coordinates are:
21h 23m 00.84s +89d 52' 49.8"
Precessed to 2011.46 (the night of the measurement), the coordinates should have been:
19h 23m 55.96s +89d 55' 09.1"
Therefore the star should have been 290.9 arcseconds from the north celestial pole.

My camera and telescope combination produce an angular resolution of 1.88 arcseconds per pixel when the images are scaled down to 1024 resolution. I measured USNO-A2 1725-00691811 to be 154.5 pixels from the NCP in the image:
i319.photobucket.com...
Original image here:
i319.photobucket.com...
That corresponds to a distance of 290.46 arcseconds from the NCP, less than an arcsecond from the expected value and well within the resolution of the image itself. There is no "physical poleshift," milliarcsecond scale effects such as Chandler wobble and earthquakes notwithstanding.