Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
These are instructions for the Christian, not the unbeliever for justification.
Titus 2:6 Encourage younger men to be self-controlled.
Titus 2:14 He gave himself for us to set us free from every kind of lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are truly his, who are eager to
Wow! Some extreme cherry picking through the scripture you claim to believe in and not in teachings.
You cite verse 13 while quoting from verse 14, saying zealous (where the translation I am using says eager), without quoting the actual verse.
Why would that be? Is there a problem here, with the verse I just quoted above, verse 14?
I meant 14, sorry. Working a little to fast last night.
Why did you skip over that part and say all we need to do is to have a certain attitude?
"Attitude"? I don't recall saying we need to just have a certain "attitude" for justification.
Could it be that you do not like the idea that we were saved to be perfect?
For one thing, we will never be "perfect" until we have a glorified body free from sin, the whole flesh warring with the Spirit thing Paul bemoaned.
And I said virtually the same thing, why not mention it a 5th time...
We are not saved BY our good works, but we are saved TO do good works, for His glory and our joy.
Any special reason why that may be the case?
Because we aren't saved to be perfect??? John says if any of us think we are free from sin we deceive ourselves. We're sinners, by commission and
omission, by thought, deed and speech. We need to remain repentant at all times.
Why do you like to conflate the theological terms "Justification" and "Sanctification"? They are two entirely different things. Justification is
a work of the Holy Spirit making us born again, regenerating our spirits/heart. Sanctification is a life-long process conforming us more and more,
day by day, into the image of Christ.
You are just bull-headed dead set on sharing in the glory of your justification aren't you? Why?
Is it that this verse points out that the ones who can not be lost out of the hand of Jesus is only referring to those who "are his", who
this verse describes as being pure?
That's not what Jesus says. Jesus says that all that the Father has given to Him will come to Him (Jn. 6:37). He also says that no
, which coincidentally means no man, can come to Him (Jesus) unless that man is first "drawn" by the Father to Jesus (Jn. 6:44). Jesus
then continues that He will never reject anyone whom the father draws to Him and whom comes to Him from that drawing of the Father (Jn. 6:37). Jesus
says that all that the Father gives to Him and draws to Him can never be taken out of His or His Father's hands (Jn. 10:27-29). And God's will is
for Jesus to not lose a single person, other than Judas, that He (The Father) has given to Him (Jesus).
Warning flags should immediately rise up when your doctrine of justification is contrary to Jesus's teachings.
1. No man comes to Him to be saved unless that man is first
drawn by God the Father.
2. All men that the Father gives to Jesus will come to Him.
3. All men that come to Jesus will not be cast away by Jesus.
4. No one can take them from either Christ's hands or the Father's hands, both hands are securing the believer.
5. God's will in the matter is for the Son (Jesus), not to lose a single person that He (the Father) had given to
Could it the case that you are completely wrong and that we are saved by faith because Faith is the instrument for our salvation because it is
this that instructs us into being righteous, as Jesus is righteous?
We are justified by a free gift of God's grace. I don't confuse the terms justification and sanctification. I realize "Salvation" is spoken of
terms in the scriptures, and I don't confuse these as well. One of the reasons I like to use "justification" to describe our past
tense sense of salvation is people easily confuse the three terms. We all can effectively say: "I have been saved, I am being saved, and I will be
saved", (Or the 3 "P"'s of Salvation):
: We have been
saved from the P
enalty of sin by Christ's redemptive work done on the cross.
: I am being
saved daily from the P
ower of sin over my life by the sanctifying work of the Holy
: I will be
saved from the P
resence of sin in my mortal body when I am given a new body free from sin
at the resurrection. (Glorification)
Many well intentioned believers confuse the three which results in a mix-mash of confusion and conflation between Justification and Sanctification.
They are two different works of God.
Faith is free, it is a gift given to us and we can not create that faith ourselves.
"God has assigned a measure of faith to each of us"
That we are made right (justified) by faith? Is that possible?
That's the entire message of the gospel. We're only justified by faith, it's a one time work of God by regenerating us with His Holy Spirit,
(born-again). Sanctification is a lifelong process of His work in us by His infilling of His Spirit to conform us into the image of Christ.
We can not boast about our good works and our holiness and our perfection and our righteousness and our cleanness and purity, because it is not
of our own doing, because it is of this miraculous power of God, this power freely given to us and does not come from us and is not because we are
superior to others but it is our saviour who is superior, the saviour who can truly save us from our sins?
Christ said to only marvel that our names are written in the book of life. Paul said to only boast in Christ Jesus, to boast we are sons of God
through Him. Both justification is a work of God, we cannot make ourselves born-again, that's God actually creating us a "new creature".
Sanctification is a work done by the Holy Spirit for God's will to conform us to His Son.
This question is moot if we have none of those attributes to even consider boasting about, is that not true?
Boasting = sharing glory. God gets all the glory, Christ is the hero of this story, not us. We have nothing to boast about in heaven, we are there
by Christ's sacrifice, God's drawing us to Him, and the regeneration of our spirit by the Holy Spirit. God saves US, for His glory and our eternal
joy. We don't glory in His work, we accept the gift with humble joy and share God's mercy and grace with everyone else.
Do you deny the power of the Holy Spirit when you claim these things are not doable or necessary?
You're straw manning me right now. These works of righteousness/good works are not necessary for justification
, but they are expected and
empowered for sanctification
by the Holy Spirit. Justification is a free gift, based solely upon Christ's love and the Fathers grace. If we
could merit it somehow it would no longer be grace. Grace IS
unmerited favor from God. Sanctification takes work, and effort from us
to yield to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, we must do good, we must be Christ's hands and feet to the world. We must serve others as Christ came
to serve us, we follow His example, we try as best we can to conform to His image by the power of the Holy Spirit living within us. And there are
rewards to be won or lost based upon our faithfulness. An unprofitable servant can lose all their rewards and inheritance, but not their
justification. because that justification didn't rely on their merits, but Christ's merits via God's grace, and the Holy Spirit's regeneration.
The Holy Spirit is our "surety" of that justification.
Are you committing the unpardonable sin when you blaspheme the Spirit of God in this way?
Who is blaspheming the Holy Spirit? That's a person rejecting a lifetime of His conviction to repent. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin. A person
must repent and agree with God that they are a sinner before they can be regenerated. The reason any person is lost is because they spent a lifetime
blaspheming the Holy Spirit's conviction of their sin and calls to repent.