reply to post by JonU2
I started this whole thread because I had a simple question regarding the Old 7 New Testaments which, to any non-indoctrinated person, shows
that the so-called 'God' is either not just one 'God' or has a mulitple-personality disorder.
This simple question, was asked many times. It´s the same old argument, that people repeating endlessly when they try to prove that "The God of
the Bible is not at all a God of love, but a God of violence and destruction.
And to be honest, that argument is rather tiredsome. Because God is
more than that.
What many people do not understand, or they do not want to, is that God is also Righteousness.
All I've received is absolute rubbish that attempts to explain that it only shows 'God's wrath' or that the people concerned actually deserved
Since you received only "absolute rubbish", i hope you can bear one more "absolute rubbish" from my side
. Let´s take as example the Canaanites. In
a nutshell it goes like this : "After Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, the Israelites were to go to the land of Canaan and clear the land of all
Canaanites: men, women and children.“
In order to understand that you need to go back at Genesis. According to Genesis 15:16, God tells Abraham, what would have happened to his descendents
centuries later. He explained to him that the Egyptians would have afflicted his progeny for “four hundred years,” and that, finally, they would
have achieved deliverance (Genesis 15: 13).
But why so long? The answer can be found again in Genesis : “…the sins of the Amorites is not yet complete” (V. 16).
From these few verses you can understand that God, waited hundreds of years, before the Amorites became degenerate enough to deserve total
destruction. And the day came when God could bear their degenerate ways no longer and decreed that their end had come. In other words "Judgement
Now back to the Canaanites and how degenerate they became. There is a verse in the book of Leviticus which explains it:
“And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants” (Lev.
It really makes someone wonder. How is it possible that people of Canaan reached such an extreme level of degeneracy that, figuratively, the land
itself would vomit them out.
For a list of those "abominations" you can find it by reading further in the chapter of the book of leviticus. Therein you find a list other more
sexual sins that were common practise among the Canaanites: Sexual activities during a woman’s period (V. 19); Adultery (V. 20); Homosexuality (V.
22); and most revolting of all, bestiality (V. 23).
To make it more clearly:
"One may question that those ancient enemies of Israel were as evil as the Bible claims that they were, but even a superficial glance at Canaanite
religion alone ably demonstrates their iniquity. Base sex worship was prevalent, and religious prostitution even commanded; human sacrifice was
common; and it was a frequent practice--in an effort to placate their gods--to kill young children and bury them in the foundations of a house or
public building at the time of construction: Joshua 6:26 "In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram
Howard E. Vos, "An Introduction To Bible Archaeology" Revised ed. (Chicago: Moody Press, 1953) pp. 17-19.
In the Book of Leviticus God warns Israel, to destroy the Canaanites as as not to be influenced by their wicked ways.
Defile not ye yourselves in
any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: And the land is defiled therefore I do visit the iniquity
thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of
these abominations ; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (For all these abominations have the men of the land
done, which were before you, and the land is defiled; That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were
before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore
shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not
yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 18:24-30)
And, Israel did not follow the order given by God, as they did in many occasions, and did not „utterly“ destroyed the Canaanites and settled in.
Basically, they settled beside their remnant for centuries, absorbing their ways and finally Israel became just Canaan.
And this very grave mistake, finally led to untold suffering, because of the great curses that befell them. These curses are listed in the book of
Deuteronomy 28, but it also lead, to their final, expulsion from the land.
As someone can understand by reading it in context, God’s aim was simply to protect Israel from influences that would have led to their degeneracy.
As the OT among other things describes the relationship between God and the Israelites.
So if God, had not decreed the destruction of the Canaanites, God would have allowed and approved a snare upon the people of Israel. That would mean
that Israel would have become like the people of the land and would have invited upon themselves the same fate, just as it happened.
Why it happened? Because, Israel did not heed God’s warning and did embrace the ways of the people of the land. Thus they were severely punished
and like the Canaanites they, also, were vomited out by the land.
What i am trying to say is that what, it seems to be an example of harshness and cruelty, is in fact, a perfect example of God’s longsuffering, of
His hatred for sin and His final drastic intervention, if sin reaches to a point of no return.
I think that the people who believe these books are not bad people but, for some reason which is usually upbringing (or indoctrination), they
totally believe that this is real and they cannot think outside of their beliefs.
Do you actually believe we worshiping books?
I tried not to insult anyone but, to me, you have shown that the majority of you cannot even use your brains anymore. The only way you can
think is by your religion...............automatically you think in defence of your religion when, maybe, there is no attack.
The point is that, that argument been asked many times. And certainly you are not the first person or the last. But what is really astonishing is the
fact that when someone explains as to why, people just reject it and keep asking the same question. And if someone does not agree with the
explanations given by others, then it´s better for other person to do his/her own research, if someone is really interested in.
If someone does not believe in God, then it´s fine. But if someone does not believe in "fairy-tales" as many are saying, then why the same old
arguments? Is it because they truly want to know or is it in order to belittle the persons who believe in God?
And to be honest usually those kind of threads, are ending in insults at each other person beliefs.
But rest assured, many of us "believers", asked those kind of questions, and have done our research and found satisfactory answers. The difference is
that we asked the questions because we truly wanted to know, and not just because we wanted to prove that the God as mentioned in OT is a war God.
Which is the conclusion of the author of the book which you read. Here is an excerpt :
THE GOD OF THE JEWS WAS A WAR GOD! 5,003,743 human beings lost their lives because of God’s army. When you know and remember this, many other
things you read about in the Old Testament of the Bible fall into place.
The point of this thread is to ask all Christians - Why are you so fervent about the caring & loving God who appears in some of your scriptures
but are silent about this war-mongering, genocidal God that appears in those very same scriptures?
Below is an answer that i gave to a thread long time ago.
First you have to understand the Bible. The Bible reveals God's will, the relationship between the Israelites and God, the wonders of Christ
and the early history of the Church. The Scriptures are understood to contain historical fact, poetry, idiom, metaphor, simile, moral fable, parable,
prophecy, and wisdom literature.
In the OT we see a fearful and wrathful God because, at some point in the beginnings of human existence man was faced with a choice, to learn the
difference between good and evil through observation or through participation. The biblical story of Adam and Eve represents this choice by mankind to
participate in evil. This event is commonly referred to as “the fall of man” and it represents a fundamental change in human nature. You can
clearly see it throughout the OT. From Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, even with God´s chosen people the Israelites.
The "Original Sin" is this adoption of evil into human nature. As a result of this sin, mankind was doomed to be separated from God. This was
mankind’s ultimate dilemma.
In the NT we see the solution to this problem was for God to effect another change in human nature. That effect was Christ Jesus which He was both God
and Man absolutely. He was born, lived, died, and rose again by the power of the Holy Spirit. Through God’s participation in humanity, human nature
is changed thus saving us from the fate of hell.( As i reject the idea that Christ died to give God "satisfaction.") The effective change included all
those who had died from the beginning of time – saving everyone including Adam and Eve.
So that is the reason, why you see a fearful and wrathful God in the OT, and a Loving God throughout NT.
Since you left us with a quote, it´s only fair to leave you also with one :
For where your treasure is, there will your heart also be.
edit on 18-7-2011 by Seed76 because: Typo
edit on 18-7-2011 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)
18-7-2011 by Seed76 because: minor corrections