Aboriginals: Their Flying Shiny Eggs and Moon-Man tales.

As Aboriginal people, we already know who we are and why we are here, and so our quests and our interactions with the universe are different. Our definitions of what constitutes life and intelligence, and other aspects of our complex cosmology, have a lot to offer western science in the future. We only need to move beyond common conceptions of our cosmology as “myth”

Indigenous Cosmology and Science: Extra-terrestrial life - Indigenous and Western Scientific Viewpoint | Suite101.com www.suite101.com...

Before I launch into some intriguing accounts of potential experiences that westerners classify as UFO encounters and alien abduction experiences, I need to highlight the difference between our perception of the unexplained and their shamanic cultural explanations.
Indigenous Australians can proudly claim the worlds longest surviving culture going back 65 000 years, a wonderful tapestry of consciousness that lasted so long and we are only just catching up to in terms of cosmology and physics in western terms when revealing a small part of their 'dreamtime'. (dreamtime means their story telling but they have no past present or future differences)
I have often swayed from any extra terrestrial speculation on indigenous lore and rock art, as this is a white man interpretation on something we know nothing about, and until my dear friend said to me " Whites call our ancestors ETS, but they are just our ancestors from the dreamtime, neither is wrong, they come from the spirit place, from the heavens, and they exist their still, out of our time, our past is our present and our future, we use the same word for soon, as we do for before"

In order to understand (slightly) their shamanic experience versus our explanations (the task is great and not possible unless you are part of that Dreaming) we need a briefing on the cultural settings from which the "stories" emerged, and try NOT to apply our obsession with ETS and UFOs on this. I can understand how we apply our understanding of their cosmology/lore as UFO/ET as the similarities are perplexing at times, however a shamanic experience does NOT automatically describe a abduction or a flying saucer or a Benevolent ET imparting knowledge. We need to start with the Dreamtime, and the best way to give you a door way to understand it from a different perspective given by a indigenous elder. "The shamanic experiences it is easy for us to apply your technical explanations "oh it SOUNDS like a UFO, Oh it LOOKS like a astronaut suit" But these are OUR applications, they are sacred".

While this line of thought is suggestive of superior "sky beings" acting as cultural catalysts for primitive societies, I should point out that making mythological component comparisons, can make for interesting exercises, full of emotive similarities, but are purely speculative.

www.theozfiles.com...

Remember because they say came or went to the sky is not proof positive of aliens or ufo craft.
I highly recommend people read Bill Chalkers The Oz Files a great read and far more detail than I can provide here.
Indigenous "abductees" ?

The Australian aboriginal shamans "clever men" or "men of high degree" described "celestial ascents" to meet with the "sky gods" such as Baiame, Biral, Goin and Bundjil. Many of the accounts of ritualistic initiation bare striking parallels to modern day UFO contactee and abduction lore. The aboriginal shamanic "experience of death and rising again" in the initiation of tribal "men of high degree" finds some fascinating parallels with modern day UFO abduction lore. At the turn of the last century, anthropologists Spencer and Gillen, in their book The Northern Tribes of Central Australia (1904), provided a classic account of the extraordinary shaman genre. An aborigine, Kurkutji, was set upon by two spirits, Mundadji and Munkaninji, in a cave: "Mundadji cut him open, right down the middle line, took out all of his insides and exchanged them for those of himself, which he placed in the body of Kurkutji. At the same time he put a number of sacred stones in his body. After it was all over, the youngest spirit, Munkaninji, came up and restored him to life, told him that he was now a medicine-man and showed him how to extract bones and other forms of evil magic out of them. Then he took him away up into the sky and brought him down to earth close to his own camp, where he heard the natives mourning for him, thinking that he was dead.

www.theozfiles.com...
Pls note here I believe these are shamanic experiences and personally do not treat them as a abduction tale.

An Aboriginal woman possibly abducted in 1933 describes an extraordinary account
In 1933 an aboriginal woman who lived near the Great Sandy Desert, in Western Australia described a fascinating account of abduction that parallels indigenous traditions of sky hero/god abduction.

In Rex Gilroy's account, the aboriginal woman claimed her tribe had been frightened off from Discovery Well when a "large shiny egg" suddenly came down out of the sky. In broad daylight the strange object flew low over them. Several beings, described as strange, grey skinned and man like, came out of the "egg". The woman said she was "stunned" by an object carried by one of the beings. Her story indicates she was carried aboard . Inside the "egg" the interior was glowing. She was strapped to a shining table and apparently "experimented with". The woman told stockmen of her experience, but perhaps not surprisingly they laughed at her. [9] This 1933 tale also anticipates the spate of UFO abduction tales that would virtually domininate the UFO landscape by the 1990s. It was not until 1957 that the sexual abduction experience of Antonio Villas Boas from Brazil occurred. The famous Betty and Barney Hill abduction story in the United States did not take place until 1961. Neither story was well known until the mid 1960s.

www.theozfiles.com...

Parallel Phantom Pregnancies alien implantation (Feather Foots)
"feather foot" spirits (which do not walk on the ground, they walk in the air; they can move through walls and things....sound familiar?

Much like Dana Scully from the x files indigenous women of the deserts have stories of sexual contact with these "sprits that float" full term pregnancies and no baby. Spirit babies...I place them in simple folk stories but they are worth mentioning.

Contact or Shamanic trance?

In about 1989 John's father-in-law, an aborigine, told him that when he was a young man (in about the 1930s) camping with a group of aborigines, before the white man took them off their land, they saw a green light spinning around in the sky. It landed behind trees. Lots of little men shining with green light came. They walked around the aborigines, looking at them, and then walked back to the UFO, which then took off.

www.theozfiles.com...


Star gate or abduction?

"Amongst the powers of the Mara medicine-men is that of climbing at night by means of a rope invisible to ordinary mortals up to the sky, where he can hold converse with the star people. " Eliade quotes A.W. Howitt's "The Native Tribes of South-East Australia", when he recounts the initiation of a Wiradjuri medicine man: "We will go up to Baiames camp. He got astride of a Muir (thread) and put me on another, and we held by each other's arms. At the end of the thread was Wombu, the bird of Baiame. We went through the clouds, and on the other side was the sky.

We went through the place where the Doctors go through, and it kept opening and shutting very quickly. My father said that, if it touched a Doctor when he was going through it would hurt his spirit and when he returned home he would sicken and die. On the other side we saw Baiame sitting in his camp."

www.theozfiles.com...


As Bill Chalker points out we need to accept shamanic experience as valid and not apply simply a extraterrestrial abduction account even though for UFOlogists the parallels maybe exhilarating.

Because modern society has not recognised the utility of the shamanic experience in interpreting the significance of these contemporary "alien visions", their percipients are seldom able to confront the possible lengthy tradition of their experiences. It should be said, however, many UFO abduction researchers do not accept this interpretation and instead contend we are dealing with bonafide extraterrestrial abductors.

www.theozfiles.com...

Cigar shaped UFOs and cattle deaths reported C1828 in Aboriginal Communities

WINGEN MOUNTAIN was ostensibly named by local aboriginals as wingen (win -- burning, gen -- mountain) or wingen (meaning fire).

"Grandad used to say that it was cigar-shaped and had a funny silver colour. When it landed it set fire to all the vegetation and killed the cattle. "The noise was dreadful and there was a series of loud bangs. Grandad also spoke of tall strangers appearing in town. They never said anything but always pointed to the things they wanted. "Quite often people just disappeared and dogs and domesticated animals disappeared too.

We always thought that Grandad's stories were good but he knew they were true and never made light of them." Kisha did not indicate a date for the events in Ted's grandfather's tale, but presumably its vintage would have to be at least contemporary with the first settler awareness of the burning mountain back in 1828.

www.theozfiles.com...

SPEILBERGS ET?
After watching Spielberg ET a 67 year old Aboriginal Woman recalled something she saw when she was 15 yearsol.

She supplied a report to the Perth UFO Research Group which stated: "(In 1930 I was) sitting reading with my parents in a humpy, on a block in Mandurah, in Greary Rd, by the light of a hurricane lamp, with the door partly open. The time (was) about 8 pm as we went to bed early.
"A little pink creature walked in. (It was) about 24 inches in height (with) large ears, big bulbous eyes, covered with a film, small hands, large feet, slit of a mouth, no hair, and shiny as if wet or oily. "We were terrified and my father went white and being a religious man said it was the work of the devil. "Picking up a prawning net, he picked it up in it and it made a noise like 'EE...EE' and my father put it outside.

We never saw it again and went to bed feeling very scared. This was in 1930 and I never thought any more about it until I saw a picture of 'ET,' although only its eyes were the same. ... It did not have a round body, more straight down like a child's body. I cannot remember seeing any sex organs... (It's shape was) like an elf."

www.theozfiles.com...

Man from the Moon lived in a Cave
A tribe maintains a man came from the moon. While on Earth he lived in the cave then left through a hole in the roof and returned to the moon.

Anthropologists, Spencer and Gillen, recorded in their 1899 study that the aboriginal men of the Aranda tribe in the southern portion of the Northern Territory, believed that at one time the moon-man lived on earth.
The Ngatadjara tribe of the Warburton ranges, in central west of Western Australia, had a myth which described how a group of women, the Kunkarunkara, were protected from the unwelcome attentions of the moon-man, Kula. Another variation, indicates they were being continuously pursued, and occassionally raped, by Jula, a man of the constellation of Orion. The women, legend has it, finally escaped into the sky and became the Pleiades. [12]

www.theozfiles.com...

The Wandjina figures are strange, majestic creatures; to indigenous people they are powerful ancestors and very sacred Modern day UFOlogists tend to go insane with claims these a re proof of alien visitation ( I decline to call them so Ill stick to calling them their sacred ancestors) Why the hysteria? these "creatures" look like ....well aliens....

usually painted against a white background. An oval band encircles the face, except for a break at the chin, and from the outer edge of the head, lines radiate out. They are often shown wearing a headband; eyes and nose form one unit; with lashes encircling both eyes, and they are rarely given a mouth. The body, when there is one, is filled with parallel stripes down the arms and legs. Long lines coming out from the hair are the feathers which Wandjinas wore and the lightning which they control.

www.australiaforeveryone.com.au...

Another "Flying Egg that landed"

From Arhem Land I have obtained the legend of a great silver bird which, according to local tribesmen, landed upon a certain plateau to lay a big silver egg, out of which the first tribesmen hatched; they were white skinned. Around the Ayres Rock (Uluru) region local tradition has it that the ancestors of the Aborigines came from the stars. The legend was related to me by Aboriginal actor-historian Ben Blakenley: -"Long long ago, far back in the Dream Time, a great red coloured egg (spaceship) came down from the skies. It tried to land safely on the ground but broke (crash landed). Out of it emerged white-skinned culture-heroes (gods) and their children.

"The children's elders soon died, either through their old age or because they could not accustom themselves to our atmosphere. The children however were young and able to adapt more easily to their new surroundings. "They carved and painted the likenesses of their parents upon cave walls to perpetrate their memory. In time the great red coloured egg rusted away until its remains had merged with the ground, thus creating the red soil of Central Australia. "The children of the culture heroes who came from the sky grew in numbers until they eventually populated the whole land, their skins turning black due to the hot climate. The cave art depicting the elders still survives showing figures in garments reminiscent of modern day astronauts.

Parks Australia spokeswoman Mali Stanton said there was not anyone at Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park who could comment on the story.....Speculation.
www.news.com.au...

The complex Aboriginal system of law and beliefs known as Tjukurpa is referred to in the national park plan of management.

The plan refers in part to the creation stories represented in rock art - without astronauts. "According to Tjukurpa, there was a time when ancestral beings in the form of humans, animals, and plants travelled widely across the land and performed remarkable feats of creation and destruction," it says. "The journeys of these beings are remembered and celebrated and the record of their activities exists today in aspects and features of the land."

www.mysteriousaustralia.com...
Ancient MYTH creation similarities across the globe
Correlations between ancient Greek Mythology and Aboriginal Australians Pleiades creation story.

One of the most memorable myths involving the Pleiades is the story of how these sisters became stars. Some versions of creation of the star system talk about seven sisters who committed suicide because they were so saddened turned to Zeus who turned the sisters into stars in the sky. There these seven stars formed the constellation known thereafter as the Pleiades.

The Pleiades also figures in the Dreamings of Aboriginals. The Pleiades are said to be seven sisters fleeing from the unwelcome attentions of a man represented by some of the stars in Orion

On a final note "Being" can mean spirit/shamanic and does not automatically need to be classed as UFO/Alien. The Dreamtime is fascinating hope you enjoyed the read

Absolutely brilliant work zazz

I dont know what else to say other than star and flag. Its certainly made me more interested in looking up our native's history of them and their extra terrestrial experiences.



Best thread Ive seen for months

great read. Cheerz

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Great stuff zazz.. .
I love the dream time and it's stories. Something that the rest of us really need to take more attention to.

It is not only part of a magnificent cultural history, but very possibly, the history of humanity here on Earth.

There has to be some amount of truth in all of it, somewhere along the line. They did not relate these stories down generations for nothing..

It always reminds me of the parallel between the Aboriginals and the native Americans. Both have a very similar culture and both share wonderful tales of the past. Both have led a life living off the land instead of being materialistic like we have become today.

Terrific post Zazz
The aborigines have much to teach us all as you have pointed out they have maintained a continuous culture for many,many thousands of years.
Their stories of experiences that we now call ufo's, abductions, "little people", stargates etc have their own unique spiritual parallels in their society.
When you hear their stories it is difficult as western/"civilized" people to understand their tales due to the inordinate amount of logic that we try to apply to them. But if you listen as a child would with an open heart you will find something else entirely.
They have much to teach us about spirit and the Earth and we should listen carefully.
Great read, thanks!

reply to post by zazzafrazz


LOOK at the size of that thread! Well played young lady!

You have sold me on these Aborigines, and I think they maybe real now.

I enjoyed reading this.

Just wanted to add a star n flag, like everyone else.

You are still short.



MM

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Hey Zazz, truly great thread and some very interesting reading - Auswally and KeithB have also posted some other relevant material over on this thread and I think it has to be said that Internos made a bloody fantastic post here about general UFO research in Australia -that guy is sorely missed.
Cheers.

reply to post by Extralien


Whilst I have included some contemporary possible contacts, the Dreamtime is past and future and present....a infinte songline as they call it.
The Dreamtime is so complex, and really the only way to try and apply it to modern understandings is to explain it within Quantum Mechanics frameworks......
Remember this stuff is beyond ancient, beyond Egypt, Sumeria India..all of them.....in terms of ancient lore.

To help explain the circular non linear time concepts of the dreaming

They believe that every person essentially exists eternally in the Dreaming. This eternal part existed before the life of the individual begins, and continues to exist when the life of the individual ends. Both before and after life, it is believed that this spirit-child exists in the Dreaming and is only initiated into life by being born through a mother. The spirit of the child is culturally understood to enter the developing fetus during the fifth month of pregnancy.[1] When the mother felt the child move in the womb for the first time, it was thought that this was the work of the spirit of the land in which the mother then stood. Upon birth, the child is considered to be a special custodian of that part of his country and is taught the stories and songlines of that place. As Wolf (1994: p. 14) states: "A black 'fella' may regard his totem or the place from which his spirit came as his Dreaming. He may also regard tribal law as his Dreaming."[2] It was believed that, before humans, animals, and plants came into being, their 'souls' existed; they knew they would become physical, but not when. When that time came, all but one of the 'souls' became plants or animals, with the last one becoming human and acting as a custodian or guardian to the natural world around them."

en.wikipedia.org...

Take for example Indigenous Australian culture, which knows two realities, the ordinary physical world and the other world, the dreamtime or dreaming, which determines what happens in the actual world. For such an apparently progressive society, we have trouble understanding the concepts that lie behind this view of the world. We deem it to be simple. We assume that because many Indigenous Australians lead simple lives, their ideas must also be simple. Not so! Before Einstein or quantum physics, Aboriginal culture already knew of different kinds of time. Unfortunately, our ways of seeing are constrained by the dominant discourse, our ideals and beliefs. When Aboriginal people speak of dreams we automatically compare them with reality; when Aboriginal people speak of a dreamtime we automatically compare it with our notions of time. Must our thoughts be so restricted? It is in fact we, who are a simple society for we fail to embrace the unknown. Australian Indigenous artist Bunduk Marika said recently that “White people would never understand dreaming,” and sadly, this could be right. Aboriginal culture also challenges our ideas relating to land or nature. Where western culture proclaims to dominate and have control over nature, Indigenous Australian culture is immersed in the land, is a part of the land, “The stories are the land, just as the land is a story” (Maybury-Lewis). Western culture has become disparate from the land; we have forgotten what is important. Maybe it is time for us to embrace some other ways of seeing, for Aboriginal culture teaches us we can no longer assume our thought processes and beliefs as the most advanced, and we cannot always define everything in terms of progress. We must once again strive to become a part of the universal mystery.

www.newsfix.net.au...

Dreamtime and Qautum Mechaincs Aboriginal circular time is considered part of dreamtime myths, while western linear time is considered to be the reality. But does western physics support this? It is true, western constructs of time can differ from Indigenous concepts of time, but this is more a difference in cosmology than native intellectual deficit. I find it is easier to explain this difference to non-Indigenous people by using western quantum physics theories. Time is a human construct. Or at the quantum level it might also be seen as being tied up with attraction to objects according to relativity principles introduced by that paragon of western science - Albert Einstein. Time actually runs slower as you move away from earth into space; this has to be factored in mathematically for satellites to be accurate. The second law of thermodynamics indicates that in a closed system, (eg. earth) that system will tend towards disorder (entropy). That is why time runs forwards on earth, but in other places in the universe time is mathematically impossible even as a human construct, eg at the event horizon of a black hole. And in quantum physics, many kinds of sub-atomic particles can move forwards and backwards in time, or like photons, not exist in time at all. Read more about the intersection between Aboriginal knowledge and western scientific research Dreamtime Is Now The creator spirits are not earth-bound or materially based, and as such are not time limited. Therefore the creation of souls is/was/will be simultaneously. My soul comes from a storyplace of my ancestors. It will go back there. It has always been there and always will be. Dreaming stories and songs are the way we continue creation, which is still happening now - not in some "dreamtime", as it was mistranslated fifty or so years ago. It was, and it is. The rainbow snake is still pushing up the mountains. This is a circular thing, and has no time. In this way, entropy through western linear concepts of time is thwarted, and my people and land endure.

Read more at Suite101: Linear vs Circular Logic: Conflict Between Indigenous And Non-Indigenous Logic Systems | Suite101.com www.suite101.com...

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Im pretty sure there are some rock paintings around which show UFO's in them as well. Many other ancient cultures have also show this. Will see if I can find any images

Though I havent spent much time on the boards.....


upon reading your thread I was immediately overcame with the overwhelming sense that I need to star and flag you .

Good Thread, interesting read.

Wow! S&F for you. Amazing read and a great way to get the gears turning

reply to post by zazzafrazz
Love it... two thumbs up!

Favorite part b/c it made me think differently in the "what if" arena:

The story about the ancestors crash-landing and the adults dying off shortly after because the younger beings were more able to acclimate to the surroundings. Think about it... bunch of kids/teens suddenly 'in charge' and fending for themselves. It makes a lot of sense that they would leave mysterious child-art cave paintings and forget to write the history of what happened. So they're young and somewhat scared, and imagine all sorts of fables about their experiences on this strange new world, and no Mommy and Daddy to say-- 'nope, that's just the wind... or thunder... or lightning.'

So what we end up with down the way (theoretically) is a mish-mash of fables born of a child's confused imagination, growing in grandeur and morphing through time and re-telling of countless generations, into so many different and diverging stories. No wonder it's so hard to sort fact from fiction.

Seems perfectly plausible to me!

It sure would explain why we know relatively little of the history of our existence on this pretty globe.

Amazing read love to learn about peoples from all around the world have similar views. It really makes you think...

S&F! Thank you so much.

I think you gave me something I've been looking for. Excellent work!

As everybody else I enjoyed reading this very much.
Always of high quality.
Fascinating story and a shame to admit that I knew basically nothing about any of that before reading.
I was currently looking for something new to read anyway, so Chalkers book it is.
Thanks, great job

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Thanks for a great thread!


I have read some of these stories and legends before from the sites you linked and there really are some interesting stories. Along with many of the dreamtime stories.

What always interested me was the fact that the Aboriginal people have been here in oz for around 40,000yrs and so much of thier culture and stories are still intact and havent been distorted my conquering civilisations abit like what happened to many south american cultures or ancient egypt prior to the greeks and roman unfluence.

Although in the past few hundred alot has been lost, there is still much to be learnt.




There was a story i read about sometime lastyear and there was a related video clip/report as well about something that happened more recently in NT i think. There Aboriginal people out there talked about a massive ball of light and explosion that left a crater or depression in the ground. It was actually quite interesting and on the report they had people or investigators go out to the site but i can't remember where i read it. I thought it the OZ files but i looked for it the other day and couldnt find it, if anyone has read the report or knows where the clip is please share.


There was also the rockart images that always stood out to me, i am mobile at the mo but will share later, or if u havent seen them yet just google iamges - aboriginal rockart ufo..... I think. It has figures standing next to eachother that look very strange and my thought when i saw them was 'space people' or aliens. I am sure its been covered on ATS before though.


Sorry for the long post, thanks again for the thread!

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Carl Sagan once said that they visited a cut off tribe in the South East. They had no knowlege of watches, no knowlege of cars, no knowlege of anything. But they knew who Buzz Aldrin and the Apollo team were. They knew men landed on the moon.


My question therefore. How do we know this isn't just their interpretation of it over the course of 40 years of oral tradition? How do we know they didn't invent this legend to keep the story alive?

reply to post by Gorman91

Valid questions. The Bible is "documented" (not oral) but it's been modified quite a bit over the centuries. So, whose to say oral traditions would be any different?

A lot can happen in 65,000 years of culture, and it would be unpractical to expect the original message to be perfectly preserved. That being said, I highly doubt they would pollute their ancient stories with Hollywood movie plot lines.

At this point in my quest for knowledge of the unknown, I still cannot fathom how the skeptics/doubters can fail to see the similarities of stories passed down from cultures both ancient and contemporary, found in almost every region of the globe.

Not every culture has the legend of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.

Almost every culture has very serious accounts of "beings" coming down from the "heavens" and interacting with humans.

Is that in itself not enough evidence?

reply to post by Cryptonomicon



Well no actually.

Well the Bible, as well as the Koran and a few other books, were all written down within at least one generation of their being created/organized . And before that, sophisticated societies continuously regurgitated the same myths over and over again. Ergo, little to no changes occur. This is why if you take the Sumer legend of the great flood and crack open the Bible, it's basically the same story. And why recent ruins discovered, like Göbekli Tepe, even though being some 9,000 to 12,000 years old, essentially still show the same story of a garden of Eden and a bunch of animals and humans being saved from a great flood.

Tribal peoples are not quite the same. Their cultures can quickly shift and change. And the mere mention or sight of something new can generate new cultures there in which. For example, when Europe was tribal, the little we have documented from First contact with the Greeks, and then first contact with the Romans, both show changes in whom they were. From Dacians to Gauls, they significantly changes. They went through periods of civilization and tribals, and through it all, a grand blurring of legends and ways was observed.

For example, When Aboriginals made first contact with Europeans, they drew them. Thy couldn't write and document about them. But they drew who they were. These incredibly alien machines and ways they couldn't understand.

www.smh.com.au...

You can see how excited and focused they were at those strange aliens. They drew such detail from just glimpses. But we can already see that emotion replacing factual things. We can see the profile of what they are, but it's not likely they're that accurate. Though granted, there's signs of even perspective art in there. Absolutely amazing.

Aboriginal culture was unfathomably changed at the sight. And it's basically a great big game of telephone without a writing system. I really doubt that a child looking at those pictures would understand them any better than the parent teaching about them. And I can imagine how quickly all those different ideas and thoughts would quickly create various myths, stories, tales, and others.

Simply put, with just oral tradition, you're lucky if your tales last one generation without unimaginable corruption. With writing, civilization, and education, your legends can stand the test of time. And that's why rock art from 9,000 years ago shows the same cultural beliefs and understandings as the Bible in a hotel room does, but you're lucky if you can find rock art in tribal regions to be understood for more than a generation.


A brief overheard news bulletin about men landing on the moon could generate untold myths thereafter.