Survey time on ATS, what is more imporant to you? Tax Breaks for the rich or Social Service Programs

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

The GOP and the rich want at it because that is about $4 Trillion in the SS surplus fund that they cannot get their greedy hands on and will stop at nothing to gut that.

If thats true, then I am now convinced I know without a doubt who Obama's masters are

Those sneaky Republicans.

Imo, this isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. It's a Capitalism vs Socialist issue. The economy is flat. Forty cents on the dollar is borrowed money

We would be doing hard time in the slammer right now.

There should be extreme obsessive compulsive accountability when these immature political hacks decide where to spend our money and on what.

I stopped at a convenience store one evening a couple of months ago. I ran into someone I knew from middle school. She and I talked for a little while to catch up. My friend has no children, she works no less than 35 hours a week and to my surprise, she gets food stamps and a "free" cell phone that is rebooted every month with 200 minutes.
I asked her if the pictures she shared with me on her phone was the "free" phone. She said no. She said her phone has unlimited minutes (Metro PCS). She said the other phone was free so she takes it.

As with your concern for the Republicans getting their greedy hands on those Trillions of surplus dollars, my friend already has her greedy hands on anything the government will give her.

Imo, this is a issue of what people will give up for something free.

Be it a free phone, food stamps, or Social Security surplus, no one group, person or institute should be solely responsible and un-checked when it comes to government. Every dime proposed to be spent on any program should be posted to the public weeks before actually pouring our money on it. That would include all cooperation's too.
Too much unaccountability and it being discussed behind closed doors. As we speak, the talking heads in Congress are "talking" behind closed doors.
We need some major airing-out in government.

Social services are more important to me. Many lower- and middle-class families truly need these programs to help them survive - and not of their own choice. Yes, there is a problem of freeloaders who abuse welfare programs, but that can be solved through a better "vetting" system.

As someone mentioned earlier, these services have been the backbone of our country for decades. Tax breaks for the rich definitely won't fix our economy either. Many large corporations (such as General Electric) don't pay taxes as it is. I've never understood the Republican fascination with destroying social programs that truly help those in need, while they are unwilling to even close tax loopholes that benefit the rich.

B

Tax the rich, they won't miss it.

Well unless anyone here is a multi-millionaire then I'd imagine the majority of feeling would be towards the latter option wouldn't it?

That's without reading anything other than the OP.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by Finalized

 

$250,000 and above!

Cool, so if I make $249,999, I'm not rich? So, if I'm getting close to that amount, I should just make sure I don't make $1.00 more to ensure I'm not soaked.

If I make $249,999, what's my effective tax rate?
If I make $250,000, what's my effective tax rate?

Also, you didn't answer my other questions....

What if I'm a doctor? I've spent years and years in school getting trained and took on massive amounts of debt... after I get out of school, I make $300,000/year, but a good portion of that goes to servicing my school debt, do you soak me with taxes then?

At what point does it not make sense for someone to invest in themselves due to the fact that the looters want to take it all away? What happens to society then? Why do so many people insist that everyone must be the same/have the same, regardless of work ethic?

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

A - Continued tax breaks, cuts and corporate welfare for the rich?
B- Financing social service programs by eliminating tax breaks and corporate welfare?

Wow...that's a totally non-biased set of choices there. That's like choosing between A - Living a great life or B- Being burned alive.

The options here are not that simple and clear-cut...no matter how much you would like them to be.

How about instead we focus on reducing the wasteful and out of control spending by our monster government? Things may look a little clearer then.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


B
/

Originally posted by calstorm
B

Tax the rich, they won't miss it.

Why am I getting the feeling those who think it's ok to take from others is fine....as long as their social service programs aren't taken from them of course.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Nice baiting question. The question you ask is the problem here as it suggests that the two are mutually exclusive, the same ideological nonsense that has crippled the government for decades.

If I need to answer the question, I would side with tax breaks. The job creators of the country already pay too much in taxes and the only thing that social service programs do is expand. The challenge with the economy is that people are sitting on their cash. People, banks, companies. The problem is not the ever expanding welfare state that provides incentives for people to remain idle.

The solution is to create a common sense approach that cuts taxes, seeks genuine fiscal reform of both the government generally and the entitlement programs specifically.

This is an interesting thread, because most people (if not all) on this website, are NOT considered "RICH". Yet news propaganda like Fox News and other News Corp owned media spends MILLIONS of dollars and time in BRAINWASHING the non rich to vote for things that DO NOT BENEFIT THEM!

Of course Im for Social Service programs...its the CORRECT and MORAL answer. But its surprising how many people will become angry when asked these questions, or joke it off, or answer with other reasons. People find it hard to give a straight answer, ESPECIALLY the conservatives on here, because they've been brainwashed to react a certain way.

Even if you were part of the top 1% financially in this country, a tax hike isnt going to take food off of your table, or deny you of anything you want in life. These people have more money than they will EVER need. Yet they campaign and lobby for our lawmakers to make them more rich each year.

If you're not rich and you support not raising taxes on the rich, you are nothing more than a slave, sheep, and are being used by the rich. You give some sort of reason that sounds all patriotic and freedom fighting, but in reality this system of greed has flushed our country down the toilet! The rich get richer the poor get poorer, and the MIDDLE CLASS STAY THE SLAVES! Working their asses off TRYING to save up for the new family car, TRYING to put their kids through college (on loans), TRYING to have a nice house (ON LOANS), not knowing they work their entire life CHASING THE DREAM...AND die chasing it! Never being able to fully enjoy a stress free and happy life! Go to hell!

reply to post by JRockABM


Nice ideological response. OK, I guess that I'm a slave then.

The left wants one thing and that is as many people dependant on the state as absolutely possible. That forces them to extract more and more of the wealth of society to keep up with the demands of the dependants. The left loves social programs not because they help people, but because social programs are the path to dependence and thus power.

Who keeps the democrats in power? Predominately those who are dependant on the goverrnment. That is why they continue to seek to expand those programs to create a larger and larger class of dependants. They're smart. Once it gets to a certain size the will never lose their power absent an absolute revolution.

The challenge with that approach however is that ultimately the left will destroy all of the abilities to create wealth and with wealth creation destroyed and the dependent class expanding, they will ultimately face another, more violent revolution. The larger challenge is of course that today the wealth creators will simply move and take their chips off the table themselves before the government takes their chips from them.

Originally posted by sweetliberty

Why am I getting the feeling those who think it's ok to take from others is fine....as long as their social service programs aren't taken from them of course.

Likewise, I get the feeling a lot of people that don't mind cutting social programs as long as they still make money off overpriced government contracts or continue to pay lower effective taxes (~16% for the richest Americans) than many in the middle class.

What's more important?

The realization that every person on this planet will die one day, thereby making the very idea of having a monetary system null and void. What's more important is what experiences you acquire while you exist in this particular plane of reality. Nothing else truly matters IMHO.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Do me a favour, do not post to this thread again as you clearly do not understand nor comprehend the purpose of this here thread. There is no third option, got it?

Just because you cannot shove your brand of politics down everyone's throat means you'd rather attack then be apart of the solution. Grow up and go away.

To everyone else who has selected either thank you very much and y'all are reiterating to me that sanity does still exist in this country of ours.

what the heck is that ???

yes there are plenty of options

by you just offering 2 of them sheds
more light into your motives than the actual
possibility of a solution.

there is a solution, the problem is:
neither Dems nor GOP are offering it.
They are closed minded just as this thread is.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Tax breaks for the rich are very important to me. Not because I'm rich, but because I am a middle class working family man. I need rich people to be confident in their businesses and be willing to expand and hire new employees. Rich people are the job creators... not government. Have you ever been hired by a person that makes $50,000 a year? I haven't.

To be clear, the type of tax breaks that I'm talking about are payroll and corporate taxes, not income taxes. I look forward to all of the Illogical, emotionaly charged Marxist replies to this

and a lil hint for you folks who don't have a clue.

Raising taxes on the wealthy will NOT increase
revenue NOR solve the debt crisis.

The rich will just lease office space in another
country with no income taxes and operate their
business out of that country and STILL not pay
a dime more. These are called loopholes.
As long as they exist, taxation between rich
and poor will never be fair. A poor man cannot
afford to start an international office with tax
relief.

So it does not matter whether you tax the rich
at 2% or 50%. They are only going to give you
what they want to share. Nothing more.
This is how GE can make $1B in profits
and not pay a dime in taxes. They file taxes
internationally when they make a profit so they
avoid taxation and then file in the US when they
have a bad year to take advantage of the
loss write-offs (breaks).

So choice A in this thread makes no sense
whatsoever as long as tax loopholes for the rich
exists.

So those of you voting for TAX THE RICH
have wasted your vote until the loopholes
are eliminated.

Originally posted by Kaploink

Originally posted by sweetliberty

Why am I getting the feeling those who think it's ok to take from others is fine....as long as their social service programs aren't taken from them of course.

Likewise, I get the feeling a lot of people that don't mind cutting social programs as long as they still make money off overpriced government contracts or continue to pay lower effective taxes (~16% for the richest Americans) than many in the middle class.

I will not willingly be a part of unconstitutional theft!

When the people who have their hand out start paying income taxes too, I will begin to listen to them, respect them. But as it stands, those people are playing a huge part in taking away my freedoms and taking from our children's future

I do not envy those who accumulate more than me.
If I want more, I'll put in 100 hours a week and get it myself just as many of the "rich" chose to do....
I can thank The Constitution of the United States, The Declaration of Independence and The Bill of Rights that allow me the freedom and liberties to indulge until I explode into a messy blob.


But those people who have their hand out for assistance, (and with the best excuses to obtain that assistance) those are the people who unable to do or achieve without fear of losing their entitlements.

I'm glad I don't demonize an entire race, religion or institute because of the actions of the few. I think there is a name for that.

ETA: Not all people on assistance chose to be dumbed-down and greedy though. There are people out there who are handicapped and elderly who do need assistance and who don't have help from family who deserve assistance.

Originally posted by calstorm
Tax the rich, they won't miss it.

I apologize in advance for this....but that's the stupidest thing I've read on the internet all day.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
A - Continued tax breaks, cuts and corporate welfare for the rich?
B- Financing social service programs by eliminating tax breaks and corporate welfare?

Stay on topic please and any post that tries to continue the "Left-v-Right" paradigm going will be ignored.

I'm going to find the "Funniest ATS quote" thread.
I found a doosie for it.

A simplistic answer for an overly simplistically minded question.

C - Cut excessive Government spending while simultaneous creating a fair and balanced tax system across the board FOR ALL and eliminating useless and wasteful Welfare/Social programs that haven't ever worked.

The problem with “social service” programs is that they make people dependent on government for survival. In this country we have places where generations of single parents have been receiving welfare payments for decades. The pattern is for a young woman to get herself pregnant, then qualify for ADC, welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, etc. It’s a way of life. Is it a good way of life? I don’t think you would find many people, even those dependent upon it, who say it is good. If you are dependent, you are not free.

A really good example of this is the Indian tribes. They have been dependent on the BIA for a century. The reservations were noted for alcoholism, high unemployment, suicide, squalor, and poverty. Those who did have jobs were reliant on government grants to improve their lives. Bureaucracies on tribal lands built up paid solely by these grants. Indians lobbies Congress. More money flowed. Corruption was rampant. But by and large their lives for the average Indian did not change for the better.

Then a funny thing happened. Tribal members began to set up casino gambling halls. People from surrounding communities dumped their bingo halls and rushed to them. In my area several tribes are not only making money, they are investing it in their own communities, and beyond. Just recently the Suquamish Tribe bought up a bankrupt golf course they had opposed being built. They have announced that leasehold lands will revert to the tribes. Each Indian family is suddenly the recipient of a good deal of money. They no longer are dependent on the BIA. They no longer need it. The savvy tribes have exported their successes to other tribes. This is a complete transformation from even 25 years ago. The key ingredient was a big change of attitude. They began to make money, invest it, and turn their lives around for the better.

Now you say, well, we need to “tax the rich” except you don’t even know what that means. The REALLY rich have tax shelters. What you mean is “Tax your slightly richer neighbor.” That would be me. It would be my own neighbors who have the wherewithal to run small businesses, people who save, people who invest. Because if I have a dollar the government hasn’t taken from me, I either a) spend it, b) save it, or c) invest it. In each case that money goes into the economy and creates jobs and additional wealth. If you have economic freedom, other freedoms flow from it.

Now taking money from me and applying it to social service programs is not really what happens. What happens is that most of that money transfers my earned wealth to a government bureaucracy that then “administers” the new social service programs. It creates government jobs that are, on the whole, higher paid with much better benefits and great pensions than the private sector. The programs that do reach people don’t create jobs, and especially don’t create incentive. They just prmote the idea that if you don’t do anything useful, the government will provide. You don’t have to be responsible.

Here's a great little vid that discusses this: