Why Hate America?, page 2
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reply posted on 1-4-2003 @ 03:23 PM by OrionSirius
I seriously think there are more people against the war than with the war.

No doubt in america itself..california seems to be the number one place for anti war protests. I think it was more than 200.000 bay area people.

Internationally..here are the numbers.Plans
[Rome: 2.5 million] [London: 1.5 million ] [Barcelona: 1 million] [Madrid: 1 million] [Paris: 800,000] [New York City: 500,000] [Berlin: 500,000 ] [Seville: 250,000] [Melbourne: 200,000] [Athens: 200,000] [Oviedo, Spain: 200,000] [Montreal: 150,000] [Dublin: 100,000+] [Brussels: 100,000] [Lisbon: 100,000] [Las Palmas, Spain: 100,000] [Cadiz, Spain: 100,000] [Amsterdam: 80,000] [Toronto: 80,000] [Stockholm: 80,000] [Los Angeles: 75-100,000] [Glasgow: 60,000+] [Oslo: 60,000] [Seattle: 55,000] [Montevideo: 50,000] [Stuttgart, Germany: 50,000] [Thessaloniki, Greece: 40,000] [Copenhagen: 35-40,000] [Berne, Switzerland: 40,000] [Sao Paulo: 30,000] [Girona, Spain: 30,000] [Vancouver: 30,000] [Goteborg, Sweden: 30,000] [Tokyo: 25,000] [Budapest: 20,000] [Newcastle, Australia: 20,000] [Vienna: 20,000] [Lyon: 20,000] [Perth, Australia: 20,000] [Irunea, Basque Country: 20,000] [Montpeilier, France: 15-20,000] [Luxemburg: 15-20,000] [Buenos Aires: 15,000] [Rio de Janeiro: 15,000] [Helsinki: 15,000] [Mexico City: 10-15,000] [Canberra, Australia: 10-15,000] [Trondheim, Norway: 11,000] [Kolkata, India: 10,000] [Johannesburg: 10,000] [Minneapolis: 10,000] [Zagreb, Croatia: 10,000] [San Diego: 10,000] [Philadelphia: 10,000] ï [Edmonton, Canada: 10,000] [Auckland: 8-10,000] [Tel Aviv: 1500], [Adelaide], [Bellingen], [Bregenz: 1500], [Bratislava], [Cape Town: 5000], [Christchurch], [Dunedin], [Durban: 3000], [Iraklio: 4000], [Maine], [Patras: 3500], [Prague: 1000], [Quito: 250], [Rethimno: 2000], [Rhodes: 2000], [Santiago: 3000], [Taipei], [Tampere: 2000], [Tudela: 5000], [Turku: 5000], [Volos: 3000], [Warsaw], [Wellington]

A reminder these are just the protester numbers...not the actual amount of people against the war..most ppl are to scared to say anything in america..hmm...freedom of speech and all and wonder why america is the only place ppl are afraid to speak up!!

Orion.



reply posted on 1-4-2003 @ 03:47 PM by Quetzalcoatl
"no war for oil" already puts the main point : Certain people are willing to sacrifice zillions of foreign lives to secure their own interests. This is highly immoral and must be opposed, in my opinion. The democratic capitalist system is in a deep crisis, as people begin to understand that ultra capitalism needs slaughter and coercion of foreign nations, along with domestic repression to be viable. The western financial system is based on capital interest, which implies economic growth. When domestic growth isnt possible since all resources are exploited to the extreme, the only way to produce artificial growth is invading foreign nations and forcing trade.

Western nations have choices to make : stay capitalist , but diminish civil rights and end up eventually in dictatorship, or stay democratic, and begin to regulate the economy along long-term sustainable lines.

George Bush chose the first alternative. That puts America into the row of rogue nations, as far as civil rights and foreign policy are concerned.

besides, illguy, it is the US who opposes, along with Israel, Iraq, Iran and North Korea the international criminal court. I doubt the nations who instituted this court (all Europe, Africa,Asia, and South America) oppose a trial against a brutal dictator. But a US case against Saddam Hussein isnt credible when the US itself works for undermining the court's authority. (its like saying "we want justice, but only when it's not us or our business partners being judged")


[Edited on 1-4-2003 by Quetzalcoatl]


reply posted on 1-4-2003 @ 05:13 PM by numberonepal
I'd like to reply to OrionSirius. Let me give you one simple example of freedom of speech. This one really says it all and really puts a nail in the coffin of "Us against Them".


Their guys post taped nonsense and statements.


Our guys take questions from the press and go on weekend shows for all to see and hear throughout the world.

Say what you want about propaganda, but I have been a part of a press corp and I assure you those reporters can ask whatever questions they want. They have no restrictions and only their credibility to keep them there.

Remember that next time you want to slam freedom of speech. Remember that everytime you post on this Site.


reply posted on 1-4-2003 @ 05:28 PM by mirrorsparadise
joehayner, i think i understand what you are trying to say.

There are people for the war,and there are people against it as well. Millions of people are protesting the war,a nd many people in the United States are protesting the war, but it seems as if they would protest anything if it were something that seemed to be different from what our government wants. Even if it were sometihing trivial. I wish I could give a good example of what woudl show what Im trying to point out but I cant think of one right off.

It seems as though the people that are protesting the war in large groups (not all, but some) are just as ignorant to any good reason for war as the pro war person is completely ignorant to the destruction that the war can cause that will never be mended.

I too have gotten the feeling that people are fighting for what they think is right, yet at the same time do not realize exactly what they are fighting for... protests continued way after the war was underway and it was too late, and this is one of the reasons why I think they dont even understand what is happening.

I too am against this war, for obvious reasons, but Im not about to go around cursing every person that sees some good in it, nor am I going to say that there is absolutely no reason behind it... erm..

basically what im trying to say is that, it seems that people were far too quick to jump on one of either two sides without knowing anything as if it doesnt even matter to know anything. This has caused a constant war in itself and has divided smart minded people into two groups.

Instaed of saying "hey, maybe this isnt just about oil" , they just want to battle it out and fight and scream and not look at what is really happening.

Everyone needs to take a closer look at things and quit fighting amongst each other. Each side is right in different ways.


reply posted on 2-4-2003 @ 05:21 AM by CoLD aNGeR
Originally posted by numberonepal
I'd like to reply to OrionSirius. Let me give you one simple example of freedom of speech. This one really says it all and really puts a nail in the coffin of "Us against Them".


Their guys post taped nonsense and statements.


Our guys take questions from the press and go on weekend shows for all to see and hear throughout the world.

Say what you want about propaganda, but I have been a part of a press corp and I assure you those reporters can ask whatever questions they want. They have no restrictions and only their credibility to keep them there.

Remember that next time you want to slam freedom of speech. Remember that everytime you post on this Site.



Well i gotta tell ya, that i have to disagree with you, the press it takes the info that they get, they can¥t release something that wasn¥t allowed by "them"

BILDERBERG TO MEET IN VERSAILLES
And AFP Will Be There

The worldís financial and political elite plan to hold their annual secret meeting at a posh French resort near the Palace of Versailles.


Bilderberg will hold its annual secret meeting at the luxurious Trianon Palace Hotel in Versailles, France May 15-18. The meeting dovetails with the Group of Seven meeting of finance ministers in Paris the day after Bilderberg concludes, on May 19 in Paris. Paris is only a 20-minute drive from Versailles.

International financiers and political leaders from Europe and North America will be conducting public business behind closed doors at the palatial resort. Banker David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger and high officials of the government and congressional leaders will participate, all pledging absolute secrecy.

Members of the Rothschild family from Europe and Britain will attend, along with high government officials.

Jim Hoagland will attend for the Washington Post and keep his pledge of secrecy. Publisher Donald Graham normally attends although he missed last yearís session in Chantilly, Va. The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Wall Street Journal and NBC, CBS and ABC have also been represented at Bilderberg meetings, binding themselves to a promise of secrecy.

Taxpayers will pay the travel cost for U.S. officials and lawmakers. It is against federal law for administration officials to hold secret meetings with non-officials to plan public policy. American officials will again ignore this law.

Central to the agenda will be planning post-war Iraq. France and Germany had extensive business relationships with pre-war Iraq and opposed the U.S. invasion. But what to do with Iraqís oil will be debated.

By noon on Wednesday, May 14, the Trianon Palace Hotel will be emptied of all non-Bilderberg guests. Employees of short duration will be sent home. Employees who remain will have been sternly told they will be fired and blacklisted if they reveal anything about what transpires. They will be told not to speak to a Bilderberg participant unless spoken to and never look one in the eye.

In the early afternoon on Wednesday, armed guards will begin patrolling the grounds and barriers placed at the entranceóremoved only for personnel and Bilderberg staff. Bilderbergís private security of plainclothesmen will be in evidence. The advance staff will arrive with portfolios for each Bilderberg participant showing who is attending and listing the agenda.

Both uniformed guards and private security will be shown photographs of American Free Press reporter Jim Tucker and possibly others from Europe and Britain who have become ìregularî at Bilderberg meetings in recent years.

Reporters have been held in jail for hours for asking questions outside Bilderberg gates. In Sintra, Portugal, guards boasted of sharpshooters on high rocks who could kill trespassers at night. So far, it is not known for certain that shots have been fired.


There u have your freedom of speech to reporters to go and ask whatever they want
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