Originally posted by Cryptonomicon

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
so yes, you are nuts

I asked, and you answered!

You don't pull any punches do you!?

not when I'm on my soapbox !

to your point about the NWO, what I can see happening is a dose of "never let a good crisis go to waste", so it wouldn't suprise me at all to see a last minute major game changing deal to be struck involving SS, the military, MC, whatever, but the deal will get done mostly because the rich need their consumers under them to consume stuff to stray rich and to make stuff for them to buy

whenever the folks in washington tell us we need to do something right now, we get things like TARP and the Iraq war

usually not good

I sometimes think lets just get it over with but then reality slaps me back to sanity. An abrupt collapse will create a literal hell on earth. Things are slowly being torn down but it takes so long we get impatient. Slow change is better however the way the politicians are going we may see that collapse. Although this whole debt ceiling debate is just theatrics to get the sheeple to react. They will do what they always do and the only thing they know how to do and that is go into more debt and claim they had to to avoid collapse blah blah BS!

If you give a teenager a credit card and he never has to work and just charges the card for anything he wants then that is what he will do. That is congress nothing but a stupid teenager who needs his credit card cut up and a good asswhoopin!

Yes, you're crazy. I know there's no hope left for this economy, and I know collapse is imminent..

I don't WANT it to collapse. I rather enjoy my "pampered" lifestyle, if you would.

I don't know of anyone who truly wants to have to fight for survival, struggle day in and day out, flee when they need to, etc.. because when the collapse comes.. that's when SHTF.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

I don't know of anyone who truly wants to have to fight for survival, struggle day in and day out, flee when they need to, etc.. because when the collapse comes.. that's when SHTF.

Welcome to day to day living for billions of people on this planet right now. What you are saying in effect is their lives are worth less than Western ones. Do you believe that? If you do then that's fine I'd love to hear your arguments, but if you don't then realize that "SHTF" for billions of people right now and the end of this system is the only escape for them.

well i'd say you wern't compleatley crazy in wanting the currant ways brought down. in fact i would suspect many others would wish for the same thing, especialy if we could redistribute a good chunk of the resources that the rich controll (like the government ).

the problem is that if the currant power structure was to fall, then not only would all hell break loose in the general public, but it would also leave a giant power vacuum at the top. this is dangerous. as all the little peons (you and me), fight it out over any little scraps we can get out hands on, like food and safety. someone or some organization would meanwhile take over in that top power position. there is a very slim chance that this could work to the benefit of all. most likely however we would find ourselves in an even worse position than we were in before.

the problem is that at ALL of our cores we are greedy. as the famous saying goes "POWER CORRUPTS, [r]ABSOLUTE[/r] power corrupts ABSOLUTELY"!! an old yet very wise saying indeed. that is what is really wrong with the "communist" system. when looked at the ideals set for communism should have created a utopia. but it did not! why? it is because ALL people have greed within their hearts. those in power wanted and got more power crushing those who may have had at least some ideals for everyone. on top of that even the common peoples "greed" screwed things up. "why work if i get the same anyway"? so instead of utopia you got- those in power only really looking out for themselves, and all the peons having to do without as people had no real interest in doing stuff like actually contributing to society (for example making or growing stuff). really why bother after all i can live even if i don't lift a finger.

now it seems that when you have a power vacuum the WRONG people end up with the power. this even happens within a democratic society where everyone is voted in. popularity contests go to the popular choice not the best choice. heck you can see that especially clear in high school elections. now when the top is totaly clear those who have a chance at suceeding are those with some sort of power. wheather it be support of the people because of popularity (hi Hitler ), or armed might (how did they get that armed might?). yet again we end up with the wrong people at the top.

the truly sad thing is i certainly can not figure a way to avoid the pitfalls, i doubt that others can either. therefore the best thing is to TRY to fix what is broken rather then to destroy it. likely trying to fix it won't work, but on the other hand at least the garbage we have now has SOME structure and restraint involved. get rid of that and chances are you will end up with the worst dictatorship around. take a serious look at rebellion and overthrowing of bad and corrupt governments through history. excepting in a few cases, things end up much worse for the little guy then before.

We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

Fight Club was written and made into a movie over a decade ago.. This song and dance a lot of people have is hardly novel.

Your not crazy, you just want change....I do understand that;

HOWEVER
A collapse could mean complete and total chaos for who knows how long! Do you have enough food and water storage for a year? What about your family and loved ones. Do you want to see the elderly, small children, the sick and dying lying in the streets? What to do with all the dead from hunger and starvation?

Chaos becoming reality is really nothing to be excited about......

It would be horrific....Imagine the sights, smells of decay.....

You must not have any children because if you did, you wouldnt wish this upon them....

I think the collapse is coming for sure. All of a sudden there will be no money to buy anything and our local parts of the world will return to the barter system or maybe even some sort of struggle for whats left of power bringing conflict or possibly both and more. Have a plan. Practice the plan. Create contingency plans. You're not crazy if you have a plan.

Originally posted by CryptonomiconHowever, will the collapse be the excuse to usher in the New World Order?

If you want to have a say or a stake in what follows the inevitable collapse, its up to you to grab the opportunity when it arises. Not aiming this at you specifically, but don't just sit there and be a spectator!

The collapse already happened, with Lehman in '08. When future historians date it they will date it from there.

Things are actually much worse than you might think even right now, because so much power has been brought to bear on massaging statistics and managing perceptions. Yet even right now, many millions in the developed nations are living in post-crash conditions, bewildered, locked out, with no way back. And in the developing world, of course, you are talking billions that never even had a chance to begin with.