I'm thinking of becoming a Freemason., page 9
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reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 09:59 AM by KSigMason
reply to post by MasterGemini


Well, depends on which part of the founders you are talking about. Only 16% of the Declaration signers were Masons and 33% of the signers of the Constitution were Masons. Many were former soldiers/officers, many were Chrstians, some were doctors, some were farmers, some were lawyers, and so on.

reply to post by MasterGemini


The all-seeing eye is used by many groups, Freemasonry is just one of them, but the pyramid is not used in our rituals. Alas though, no symbol has exclusive, singular meaning or definition.



reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 10:18 AM by MasterGemini
Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to
post by MasterGemini


Well, depends on which part of the founders you are talking about. Only 16% of the Declaration signers were Masons and 33% of the signers of the Constitution were Masons. Many were former soldiers/officers, many were Chrstians, some were doctors, some were farmers, some were lawyers, and so on.

reply to post by MasterGemini


The all-seeing eye is used by many groups, Freemasonry is just one of them, but the pyramid is not used in our rituals. Alas though, no symbol has exclusive, singular meaning or definition.


Sweet, I was too lazy to bother to go clarify that. Thanks.

Many of the rituals come from old "ritual magik." It is not so much the symbolism as the meaning and intent while the actions/rituals( w/e) are being performed, whether the participants are aware or not does not really matter. I was pointing out that many of the processes are adapted form old hermetic/gnostic/mystic practices aimed at elevating one's self.
edit on 27-7-2011 by MasterGemini because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 11:28 AM by KSigMason
reply to post by MasterGemini


Masonic rituals come from ritual magik [sic]? Exactly what part of our symbols denote "magic"? And what is necessarily wrong with the rituals?


reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 12:25 PM by jbarr
Originally posted by fordrew
reply to
post by jbarr



welcome to ATS! Us masons up north are enjoying our nice cold beers. I hope you are enjoying your sweet tea though .

One word of advice, don't get too sucked in to debating the crazies here in this particular board because they will never change their thoughts and they often omit certain information in articles or just have plain horrible sources.
Enjoy the other boards on this site too!


Thanks for the welcome. Likely, I WILL get sucked in, but I've been on enough anti-Masonic forums to know that it's a losing battle. Better to just be myself and model who and what a Freemason is all about.


reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 12:27 PM by jbarr
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to
post by jbarr



Well that's a hell of a way to jump into ATS! Nice post!


Thanks!

Here is the Introduction Forum where you can start a thread introducing yourself. You won't be able to start any other threads until you have at least 20 posts.


Thanks for the info. I did just that and posted here.

Here is an Index of Important ATS Related Technical threads.


Excellent information!


reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 12:39 PM by jbarr
Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to
post by MasterGemini


Masonic rituals come from ritual magik [sic]? Exactly what part of our symbols denote "magic"? And what is necessarily wrong with the rituals?


I'd love to see some real evidence as well.

While I it could be argued that Masonic rituals have roots in the ancient mystery schools, I've yet to see any connection with "magik" (and I'm taking "magik" to likely refer to the likes of Wicca, Paganism, and possibly Satanism.)

The Blue Lodge rituals are based upon and filled with scriptural references directly from the Old Testament of the Bible. A simple study of the history, mythology, and legends of Freemasonry reveal pretty clear evidence that there is no such connection. The Scottish Rite does contain many rituals in its degrees that are certainly not Judeo-Christian, however this is merely illustrative of its comparative religion focus. The York Rite, on the other hand, is decidedly Judeo-Christian, and I see no evidence of anything connecting it to "magik".


reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 02:08 PM by Masonic Light
Originally posted by jbarr

While I it could be argued that Masonic rituals have roots in the ancient mystery schools, I've yet to see any connection with "magik" (and I'm taking "magik" to likely refer to the likes of Wicca, Paganism, and possibly Satanism.)


Wicca actually plagiarized some elements of Masonic symbolism and ritual, similar to what the Mormons did. Pike says on p. 839 of Morals and Dogma that:

THE Occult Science of the Ancient Magi was concealed under the shadows of the Ancient Mysteries: it was imperfectly revealed or rather disfigured by the Gnostics: it is guessed at under the obscurities that cover the pretended crimes of the Templars; and it is found enveloped in enigmas that seem impenetrable, in the Rites of the Highest Masonry.

He then elaborates on Magic a few pages later, defining it as the "Science of the Ancient Magi". His version of the 32nd degree ritual details how he believed that modern Freemasonry came into possession of the ancient Magian symbolism via Pythagoras.

Interestingly, a good deal of Morals and Dogma, including the abovementioned section, was lifted verbatim from Eliphas Levi's "Transcendental Magic".

The York Rite, on the other hand, is decidedly Judeo-Christian, and I see no evidence of anything connecting it to "magik".


Much of the York Rite does contain Kabalistic symbolism, however, which could be described as the "philosophy of magic" (Pike mentions this in the AASR 26th degree as well). Aleister Crowley and John Yarker co-authored an interesting essay on the Kabalistic symbolism of the Royal Arch and Mark Master degrees. Furthermore, even in the SC Ahiman Rezon, Mackey tips his hat to the Kabalah as the foundation of Blue Lodge symbolism.
edit on 27-7-2011 by Masonic Light because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 08:03 PM by network dude
reply to post by jbarr



welcome and I look forward to seeing your input here. As you can see, I am from the North. (It's hot here too) Send me a U2U and let me know your lodge if you wish. I would love to meet fellow ATSers in real life. I have a brother in Myrtle Beach in intend to look up on a visit, and while I may not be ready for it, I would love to meet Masonic Light in person. Take your time learning all the in's and out's here. There are many. And from the sound of your journey, it's much like mine. Discussing the Anti perspective has taught me much more about the craft than I could have learned in a more subdued environment.


reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 09:16 PM by jbarr
Originally posted by network dude
reply to
post by jbarr


welcome and I look forward to seeing your input here. As you can see, I am from the North. (It's hot here too)


I'm originally from the Chicago area, but I now live in South Carolina's Upstate. I'm very settled, but still miss Chicago food!

Send me a U2U and let me know your lodge if you wish.


As soon as I get past the first 20 posts!

I would love to meet fellow ATSers in real life. I have a brother in Myrtle Beach in intend to look up on a visit, and while I may not be ready for it, I would love to meet Masonic Light in person.


I'm still trying to figure out who he is. I tried to U2U him but can't until I make 20 posts. Patience, Jim...

Take your time learning all the in's and out's here. There are many. And from the sound of your journey, it's much like mine. Discussing the Anti perspective has taught me much more about the craft than I could have learned in a more subdued environment.


No kidding. People challenging my beliefs send me into overdrive learning more so that I can be better equipped. One of the things that intrigues me about Freemasonry and its teaching is that it encourages you to really dig and search. And it's so rewarding. Give someone all the knowledge they need up front, and they'll likely ignore most of it and take it for granted. Present it incrementally, make someone work for it, present challenges to overcome, and it drives you to learn more.

Sorry if this got off-topic...
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