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Is Satan truly evil?
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reply to post by David_Reale
It depends on what angle you see Satan as. To me, I think he is just a myth. To Abrahamists, he is the creator of evil. Something gone wrong, even though its your own fault? Hey lets blame Satan, after all he can't reply back! Even though you create good and evil not G-d or Satan but yourself, so no he isn't evil, just read the Bible!
It depends on what angle you see Satan as. To me, I think he is just a myth. To Abrahamists, he is the creator of evil. Something gone wrong, even though its your own fault? Hey lets blame Satan, after all he can't reply back! Even though you create good and evil not G-d or Satan but yourself, so no he isn't evil, just read the Bible!
reply to post by Rustami
One of the things I saw was a vile old man who took his shirt off and had three red stripes from neck to waist. They were not scars or tattoos.
He was a patient and kept his room at about 90 degrees.
I know this all sounds benign, but he exuded evil.
His behavior was unnatural.
The really spooky thing is that the other patients wore crosses around him.
One of the things I saw was a vile old man who took his shirt off and had three red stripes from neck to waist. They were not scars or tattoos.
He was a patient and kept his room at about 90 degrees.
I know this all sounds benign, but he exuded evil.
His behavior was unnatural.
The really spooky thing is that the other patients wore crosses around him.
reply to post by 2012srb
You have to look at where it comes from and why. Long before Judiasm was created, the Hebrew had many G-ds (the supreme ones) but also had one main G-d (the supreme one). The Hebrew after years of wondering around the middle East for profit, as mecenaries, money lenders, finacial advisors and sometimes theivery, those at the top (Pharisees) had enough gold to create an empire but lacked man power to commit to such a task.
They had secret knowledge which they did not want to follow but also prevented others from seeking it. Afterwards as history has told us, the Romans were at the top but also greatly in debt to them and in order to pay it back, they decided with the Romans to create a new system (a monotheistic religion called Christianity) where they will have their special position (chosen ones). This was done as a self preservation tactic, remember the Roman saying "Rome offers you peace or war; it matters not to Rome which you decide."
In order to create Christianity, the Jews were made to flee to Baghdad where they started to write what we know as Judiasm, Christianity and Islam. But how do you get Pagans to accept this new relegion? By claiming if you dont accept this one G-d, he will send babarians and you will be persecuted for life. Then this is where the Hebrew dress up exactly like is says in the scripture and people saw them and said "hey the Bible is right, there they are and this is what will happen to us if we become like the Jews" and we all know how this G-d, Yahweh, treated his own people and the harsh life the Jews have led.
One problem remains, the Hebrew had many G-ds and so it was decided to use a Caanite G-d as their main G-d. A G-d that has no name so they spell it like this. But G-d is really gold, which metaphorically means knowledge and not old man in the sky.
You have to look at where it comes from and why. Long before Judiasm was created, the Hebrew had many G-ds (the supreme ones) but also had one main G-d (the supreme one). The Hebrew after years of wondering around the middle East for profit, as mecenaries, money lenders, finacial advisors and sometimes theivery, those at the top (Pharisees) had enough gold to create an empire but lacked man power to commit to such a task.
They had secret knowledge which they did not want to follow but also prevented others from seeking it. Afterwards as history has told us, the Romans were at the top but also greatly in debt to them and in order to pay it back, they decided with the Romans to create a new system (a monotheistic religion called Christianity) where they will have their special position (chosen ones). This was done as a self preservation tactic, remember the Roman saying "Rome offers you peace or war; it matters not to Rome which you decide."
In order to create Christianity, the Jews were made to flee to Baghdad where they started to write what we know as Judiasm, Christianity and Islam. But how do you get Pagans to accept this new relegion? By claiming if you dont accept this one G-d, he will send babarians and you will be persecuted for life. Then this is where the Hebrew dress up exactly like is says in the scripture and people saw them and said "hey the Bible is right, there they are and this is what will happen to us if we become like the Jews" and we all know how this G-d, Yahweh, treated his own people and the harsh life the Jews have led.
One problem remains, the Hebrew had many G-ds and so it was decided to use a Caanite G-d as their main G-d. A G-d that has no name so they spell it like this. But G-d is really gold, which metaphorically means knowledge and not old man in the sky.
edit on 20/7/2011 by naeem11111 because:
(no reason given)
Originally posted by naeem11111
reply to post by 2012srb
You have to look at where it comes from and why. Long before Judiasm was created, the Hebrew had many G-ds (the supreme ones) but also had one main G-d (the supreme one). The Hebrew after years of wondering around the middle East for profit, as mecenaries, money lenders, finacial advisors and sometimes theivery, those at the top (Pharisees) had enough gold to create an empire but lacked man power to commit to such a task.
I fell asleep after mercenaries. Way to drive the ego into history!
reply to post by Jordan River
Although the majority were money lenders and financial advisors, some were mercenaries as it was and still is a big business which makes huge amounts of profit.
Although the majority were money lenders and financial advisors, some were mercenaries as it was and still is a big business which makes huge amounts of profit.
Satan is Lucifer, first Lucifer then Satan, Lucifer becomes Satan, there were more then one lucifer, but the first Lucifer was Satan.
Tho not all the Lucifers were a Satan, there were others but they did not become a satan.(adversary)
Tho not all the Lucifers were a Satan, there were others but they did not become a satan.(adversary)
Originally posted by Adyta
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
Go ask him... he lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC.edit on 7/13/2011 by Adyta because: (no reason given)
Are you sure? I thought that was God? Oh that's right... They are married so they both live there...
Originally posted by pepsi78
Satan is Lucifer, first Lucifer then Satan, Lucifer becomes Satan, there were more then one lucifer, but the first Lucifer was Satan.
Tho not all the Lucifers were a Satan, there were others but they did not become a satan.(adversary)
Lucifer
The name "Lucifer" means "Light Giver" or "Light Bearer". Light giver referring to the morning or evening star, Venus. Actually the name meant to mean the "Brightest Star". That later was translated to "Eosphorus" (Greek word for Morning Star) and finally to Lucifer. In mythology he is the son of Aurora (the Roman personification of dawn) and the father Ceyx (Greek). Contrary to popular belief, Satan and Lucifer are two separate fallen angels. His banishment was because of his complete egotism and pure malice -- his sin, pride. This then indicates that Lucifer, not Satan was indeed the first angel to have sinned. Lucifer has been equated to Satan due to the misreading of the passage Isaiah 14:12 that was applied to the King of Babylon --
..."How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! ...
First concept of this passage is that is was a mention to a man, a king who ruled the city of Babylon on that time.
The second concept is that it was also a reference to Samael, a cosmic being and the Seraphim of Purity, who descended from Heaven to oversee Hell.
The Isaiah's passage, as far as it is related to Lucifer (and in this case it is originally to Samael) is actually a lament when the "Son of the Dawn", the brightest Light from Heaven descend from his former position of Seraphim of Purity to rule also over the Underworld (Sheol) and Hell and oversee the punishment of the iniquitous.
The fact is that Samael descended, **he did not fall**. The lament is that when a being of his height and light had to descend from his original place in Heaven to work for God in Hell, shook the nations! Samael is also the sovereign of the 5th, 6th and 7th Heavens.
The actual name "Devil" was applied to Lucifer when early theologians identified him with the falling star in the passage from Isaiah, hence how Satan and Lucifer started to become interchangeable. We must point out here that writers of that time, did not know of fallen angels yet, through some passages point to the behavior of angels as less than "holly" from time to time throughout the Old Testament.
Lucifer was a "great" Archangel, Prince, and the anointed Cherub (7th Dimension - Cherubim). Ever after his fall he still seems to retain some of his power and ancient title. There are many different variations of stories and legends on Lucifer.
WHO IS HE?
Is Lucifer the opposite of God?
Lucifer cannot be God's opposite because he was created by God.
Lucifer is the opposite of Michael. (the Head Archangel)
Satan
Satan's name is believed to originate from the term satan which connotes the idea of opposition and adversary.
Before his fall, it's believed that he was one of the Ruling Prince's of the Celestial Orders (specifically Seraphim, Cherubim, Powers, and Archangels), chief of the Seraphim and Head of the Order of Virtues.
St. Thomas Aquinas had a different important point on this matter, he believed that Satan was a Cherubim more than anything else... More about this subject read in the chapter: Why they Chose to Fall?
Instead of being depicted as a six winged Seraphim, he was shown as having twelve wings. It has also been written by theologians that Satan was created on the 6th day of Creation. Representing more of an abstract entity than an evil one. He was in charge of testing "humans integrity", though God had the power to set limits on what Satan could and could not do.
The traditional theory is that Satan was the angel that betrayed and then led the revolt against God. It boils down to Satan that he was very jealous of the love that God felt towards Adam. Either by transforming into a snake or just using the snake as a tool, Satan tempted Eve with the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. By 3rd century A.D. it was fully established by the Christian philosopher Origenis the association between the snake and Satan. In following centuries, the snake has been believed to be the incarnation of Satan. God then banished Satan from the Heavens... or did he? He banished him to Earth, but the working theory is that Hell is actually located within the Northern boundaries of the 3rd Heaven. Within the 2nd Heaven the fallen angels are imprisoned awaiting final judgment in complete darkness.
So it's here that Satan walks between Heaven and Earth. Primary staying here on Earth, seeking to destroy the lives of human beings and to keep them separated from God. Here is when Satan is now known by his other name, the Devil.
www.steliart.com...
It is a little odd that so many Angels turned against God. I thought he was the shizznit? God created evil (I form the light, and create darkness: I
make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7), we know this. If the Angels (and ourselves) are creations of God, then God
gave us both the abilities to be prideful, to sin, to be tempted.. he gave us all the good AND bad attributes. Then it stands to reason freewill
shouldn't be an ultimatum (my way or Hell). If God created us with the capacity to turn against him, then maybe God should just accept our choices
instead of going to Holy War and throwing people in eternal fires..etc. After all, God doesn't pay the price for our creation... we do, and the
Angels as well, I assume. Why should I be responsible for 'original sin'?!
reply to post by SmArTbEaTz
I agree on some points with you, Lucifer is no other than the son of god who gets corrupted, and becomes a corrupted king.
I agree on some points with you, Lucifer is no other than the son of god who gets corrupted, and becomes a corrupted king.
It's always been my belief that Satan represented knowledge. The church portrays him as evil because they don't want their sheep to have knowledge.
If they did they wouldn't be sheep.
Personally, I always thought the guy got the raw end of of the deal. Maybe he wasn't evil when all this started, but after thousands of years of being called evil maybe he took it heart, you know? I remember reading a book a long time ago where it was said that Aliester Crowley's mother used to call him the devil all the time when he was growing up. Look what happened, the guy took it to heart.
So no, I don't think Satan is evil. I think he's misunderstood. When was the last time you heard of a war started in the name of Satan? It doesn't happen.
Personally, I always thought the guy got the raw end of of the deal. Maybe he wasn't evil when all this started, but after thousands of years of being called evil maybe he took it heart, you know? I remember reading a book a long time ago where it was said that Aliester Crowley's mother used to call him the devil all the time when he was growing up. Look what happened, the guy took it to heart.
So no, I don't think Satan is evil. I think he's misunderstood. When was the last time you heard of a war started in the name of Satan? It doesn't happen.
I prefer the Al Pacino Satan from "the devils advocate". He was awesome! If only he would have picked me.
reply to post by squandered
Body, mind and soul. This is a test to remember who we are. Some figure it out, some get caught up in the semantics and labels. Dig deeper, a child can see it.
Body, mind and soul. This is a test to remember who we are. Some figure it out, some get caught up in the semantics and labels. Dig deeper, a child can see it.
Satan is not evil per say, he is the energy of FEAR. There are two kinds of fear, fear that keeps you breathing and fear that causes you to error into
delusion and self-destruction. Sat= Truth An= That which is without, or is not, so Satan is the essence of the truth of that which is not real, ie
fear of death based upon a delusion of physical immortality or cessation of existence. Having Satan confront you on your worst fear is a terrifying
experience, but when you realize it's only the fear itself you experienced you will laugh at how scared you actually were. Some fear is necessary in
a dualistic world for physical survival, Satan is the energy of that fear that keeps you trapped here in the physical, temporal dimensions of
existence.
Inventory your fears, then see how many are realistic and how many don't matter. The realistic ones you have try to fix what is wrong that is causing the fear, everything else let go of. How to know which fear is realistic? The fears you can do something about are real, the ones you cannot are Satan's delusions. Satan will have a lot of "fun" using extra dimensional entities during the "3 days of darkness" Nothing like a good scare to feel alive? No?
Inventory your fears, then see how many are realistic and how many don't matter. The realistic ones you have try to fix what is wrong that is causing the fear, everything else let go of. How to know which fear is realistic? The fears you can do something about are real, the ones you cannot are Satan's delusions. Satan will have a lot of "fun" using extra dimensional entities during the "3 days of darkness" Nothing like a good scare to feel alive? No?
Or we've all been snowed over fighting about Mommy and Daddy. In my mind, it's the battle of matriarchy vs patriarchy and here's why. We're not
digging up our own racial histories because we can't stop fighting about who's better. We're all people and we're all connected and if we don't
get past the entire good and evil thing and dig down into the root? Well... But here's a little clue if you want to explore it, the Narts.
When asked if they'd prefer a long boring life or a brief flame of glory and passion, they choose freedom. They didn't fall, they came romping down like teenagers on summer break. Their society was equal, they were shameless, and while brave warriors, they weren't aggressors. Women ran the show so the boys could play. They laughed. And their women were free like most caucasian cultures. The matriarch? Satanaya. In my mind that has many implications. Could some ancient tribal rivalry have created this entire cluster#, lol?
When asked if they'd prefer a long boring life or a brief flame of glory and passion, they choose freedom. They didn't fall, they came romping down like teenagers on summer break. Their society was equal, they were shameless, and while brave warriors, they weren't aggressors. Women ran the show so the boys could play. They laughed. And their women were free like most caucasian cultures. The matriarch? Satanaya. In my mind that has many implications. Could some ancient tribal rivalry have created this entire cluster#, lol?
God didn't create Satan evil. Satan rebelled against God and wanted to be worshipped by humans. The only way he could compete for followers and
worshipers against a perfect and all loving God was to result to sin, lies, threats etc. The natural result of sin is a decadent spirit and mind. The
more you sin the easier it is to do even worse things. Satan's mind got more and more corrupt as time went on. Evil is a natural result of rebelling
against God. Satan could not compete being good like God is. He had to result to evil. Eventually just like any liar you are crushed under the tangled
web you weave.
reply to post by David_Reale
Satan is fantasy. I don't get it?
Most characters in fiction have more depth than Satan does, though.
Satan is fantasy. I don't get it?
Most characters in fiction have more depth than Satan does, though.
Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
It's always been my belief that Satan represented knowledge. The church portrays him as evil because they don't want their sheep to have knowledge. If they did they wouldn't be sheep.
Personally, I always thought the guy got the raw end of of the deal. Maybe he wasn't evil when all this started, but after thousands of years of being called evil maybe he took it heart, you know? I remember reading a book a long time ago where it was said that Aliester Crowley's mother used to call him the devil all the time when he was growing up. Look what happened, the guy took it to heart.
So no, I don't think Satan is evil. I think he's misunderstood. When was the last time you heard of a war started in the name of Satan? It doesn't happen.
Evil = Knowledge. You're exactly right, btw. Christianity, at tis core, is anti-knowledge.
Who needs knowledge when we have prayer? If prayer doesn't work, it was gods will.
edit on 27-8-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason
given)