Is Satan truly evil?

Originally posted by TiggersTheMan

Originally posted by AQuestion

Dear TigersTheMan,

Firstly, what an interesting choice in usernames, did you pick it before or after it was found out that he was cheating on his wife with prostitutes? Just wondering.

Before you start off attempting to bash me over my username, you might want to check that you have spelled it correctly. It's Tigger, not Tiger. As in the character in Winnie the Pooh, whom my cat happens to resemble. Hence, the name refers to my cat. Moving on.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Must there be evil for there to be good? Nope. You can have good and not have evil without having stasis. You need to define evil. Evil and sin are different. Sin is anything short of perfection, evil is wrongdoing, that requires a bad intent.

I'm sorry, I don't understand how this relates to "evil" or "good" existing independently of the other. Simply by having a definition for either, you acknowledge they both exist. Your definition for sin is a result of your beliefs, as I'm sure you know, not everyone shares the same beliefs. For example, if you were to look up the definition of sin according to a dictionary, it does not define sin as "anything short of perfection."

Originally posted by AQuestion
If I am blind in one eye, I am not perfect; but, it doesn't make me evil.

I'm sorry, again, I don't see the point of this comment. Are you implying that by being blind, you're defined as imperfect, and therefore have sinned? That's an awful concept (IMO). I am not one to judge as to whether or not being blind makes you imperfect or not, and of course I agree it doesn't make you evil.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Where we sit on the the spectrum is our choice, God does not place us there, we choose. Our choices define us, not God and not Satan. We can choose to be evil, we end up evil. Evil is selfishness.

I never stated otherwise, hence my comments regarding free will. The point of the thread is, is Satan truly evil, and I gave my thoughts on the subject.

Dear TiggersTheMan,

Firstly, relax dude, this is just ATS, this is not your life. For all you know, I am a 300 lb lady who just wants to communicate with young nerds. Sorry I misspelled your username. Don't freak on it. Lets move on.

You don't like my definition of sin. It is not from a dictionary, it is what the word means in both new and old testament, try a Concordance. I was not giving the common usage, I was giving the biblical translation. It is like using the word "Catholic" or "catholic", one is a church and the other means being wide in knowledge. There is a reason that there are words for sin and evil, they are different things otherwise we do not need two words.

Your sincerity is highlighted by your awkward attempt to accuse me of being bigoted against people with handicaps. Do you not believe that a one eyed man would prefer to have two, does he not feel that he lost something? I know two men with one eye, both lost the other and were not born with one eye, they would each like their other eye back, they feel they lost something. I will tell them that you think they lost nothing and are just as well off as when they had two. Thanks for letting us know you.

Always thought the origin of the word "Sin" was actually translated as "to miss the mark"; something that happens but by no means is a requisite- at least as it was written in the Tanakh.

Originally posted by davidsewell
Always thought the origin of the word "Sin" was actually translated as "to miss the mark"; something that happens but by no means is a requisite- at least as it was written in the Tanakh.

Dear davidsewell,

Does "miss the mark" imply evil? No, it means not perfect. We are in agreement.

Satan is a HATER. He/She/It hates mankind! WE are a constant reminder of God's glory. Everytime Satan/the Devil looks at US, he/she/it sees God. Satan's main purpose is to lead men AWAY from God. It is his/her/it's job to keep man away from his purpose, and reason for his existance. He/she/it is the leader of the rebellion, against God...and since WE are made in God's image and likeness...we are caught in the crossfire...of existance or doing what God created us to do. Satan has absolutely NO POWER over mankind! He/she/it only has the 'lie'; which leads people to believe he/she/it has power. Satan isn't "after you"....he/she/it wants to keep you away from the real you...called PURPOSE; and, he/she/it is doing 1 hell of a job; just look at all the wasted lives; going through the motions, never accomplishing anything! Truly sad!

Originally posted by AQuestion
Firstly, relax dude, this is just ATS, this is not your life. For all you know, I am a 300 lb lady who just wants to communicate with young nerds. Sorry I misspelled your username. Don't freak on it. Lets move on.

I'm plenty relaxed, thank you. Rather jovial, in fact. Simply pointed out that you made assumptions based on what you perceived was my name. A simple apology would have sufficed.

You don't like my definition of sin. It is not from a dictionary, it is what the word means in both new and old testament, try a Concordance. I was not giving the common usage, I was giving the biblical translation.

Nowhere did I say I didn't like your definition of sin. I stated those who have beliefs different from yours (i.e., don't follow the bible) would have a different definition of sin. A dictionary also has a different definition.

Your sincerity is highlighted by your awkward attempt to accuse me of being bigoted against people with handicaps. Do you not believe that a one eyed man would prefer to have two, does he not feel that he lost something? I know two men with one eye, both lost the other and were not born with one eye, they would each like their other eye back, they feel they lost something. I will tell them that you think they lost nothing and are just as well off as when they had two. Thanks for letting us know you.

Wow, talk about attempting to accuse someone of something. I asked you what your statement implied, and also what it had to do with the thread's topic. You declined to answer either question, instead choosing to spin things in a whole other direction and light. Unsuccessfully, I might add. Also, quite off topic.

Nah, Satan's a good dude, he's just performing the function that God wants him to.

This is like asking if the Smurfs are evil.

Opposites exist in most instances:
What is light, if not compared to darkness?
What is heat, if not compared to cold?
What is moisture, if not compared to dryness?
What is softness, if not compared to hardness?
What is love, if not compared to hatred?
What is Yin, if not compared to Yang?
What is good, if not compared to bad?
What is truth, if not compared to deceipt?

The same applies to God and his eternal love. Most call the opposite Satan and eternal damnation.

Look around you .... Our leaders are corrupted, war is placed above peace, sin is promoted and morals are derided, society is breaking down, Our prisons are overcrowded, thousands of children go missing every year yet we lament that our children should be able to walk to school, technology that can benefit mankind is withheld, greed is glorified above charity, etc etc.

The force gaining power in this world is quite obvious.

Right here's why i see the lines is fuzzy....

If god says killing is wrong killing is wrong/bad/evil hence the work of the devil
but if you kill to protect your family from someone going to kill them this is self/family protection, your only choice (say in the matter of war(not war like iraq, war like WW2)) but in the eyes of god it is still wrong??
the bible says so... but the devil accepts you for this? soo.... does that not make the line real difficult to choose a side on?

Also... if you live in a country and agree with the politics, a man who stands against it is your enemy, a terrorist
if you are against the politics right to your very core the same man is your friend and a freedom fighter.

depending one what side of the fence you sit, that man is always going to heaven...

Which means he is always going to hell....

so i just find Evil a relative thing.. and thus i dont think Satan could be EVIL incarnate because its subjective to what you are being evil about??

also.. i dont beleave in god...



just my thoughts.

reply to post by AQuestion


Hello and may Peace be upon you

I did answer the OP in my initial reply to this thread. It is a "simple question," and I gave a simple answer [no]. Additionally, I explained why I said Satan was not evil in the last sentence of my initial reply to this thread, supplemented with the Biblical quote. Please do not accuse me of that which i am not guilty.

I am apologize if I have earned your hostility through offending your faith or beliefs. My replies thus far have fully supported my initial reply, which was fully on-topic. If you disagree with me or are offended by my understandings, I only address the Bible and the religion, not addressing you or any person.

"Job, in the end, did not blame God, he questioned him and never did give up his belief in God just because he suffered, why do you attempt to speak for Job, you do not know his heart'

Job tore his garments asunder, shaved his head, cut himself, and sat in ashes. He sat in silence for seven days even in the company of his friends. Sure he didn't blame God, but he openly stated his wish of death over birth and life. The man was clearly devastated and hurt. Yes, Job did not lose faith. Yes, things turned out alright in the end. But you can not say that during the tribulation Job was not severely hurt. If God already knew Job was upright and righteous, why allow the man to suffer such emotional hardship just to prove Satan wrong? Do the ends justify the means?

'You refer to Job as a bet, that is slightly deceitful, it was not a bet, it was an evidence."

"Hey Satan, I have this believer that is just perfect!"

"Oh yeah God, how good do you think he is? I bet if misfortune befalls his family, his property, his wealth, his farm, and his health... I bet he'll turn his back on you!"

"No way Satan, go ahead and mess up his life. Cause him grief, pain, and depression. He won't turn his back on me."

AQuestion, that sure sounds like a bet to me. God would rather put a man through hell to prove Satan wrong, rather than tell Satan to take a hike? (Off-topic now)I thought "thou shalt not tempt the Lord." Yet God allows Satan to tempt Him, and in order to prove Himself to Satan, God authorizes Satan to unleash hell upon Job's life.

In so answering the initial OP, we have now elaborated as to God's blame in this whole affair. You said Satan would have been innocent only if he were an observer. Well, God crossed the line of observer when he told Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger. Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”

As you question me with a metaphor, allow me to answer your last few sentences with a metaphor of my own.

I create a weapon of mass destruction powered by a fully realized artificial intelligence. This artificial intelligence asks me if it can unleash destruction upon the world. I answer the A.I. in the affirmative that I will allow it. This weapon of mass destruction devastates multitudes of people. Are my hands clean and innocent? Should we never question me, but only focus 100% of the blame onto the A.I.? The A.I. is only as evil as its creator who programmed it... only as evil as the creator authorized it to be.

Just in case you missed it the first time; "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
[Deuteronomy 24:16]

Nothing is Satan's fault, we are responsible for our own actions. Satan does not do evil, we do. Mere words are not evil, actions are and we're all responsible for our own actions. Satan only tempts, we react. Actions speak louder than words.

If you still disagree with me, I would like to respectfully end the discourse. I said all i needed to, and I do not want to waste time bickering when we both have our own separate opinions. You are not wrong, but I am not wrong also. You are right in your world, I am right in my world. May Peace be upon you my friend.

Originally posted by TiggersTheMan

Originally posted by Sahabi
No, Satan is not evil.

Satan is only a temptor, and according to the Book of Job, Satan tempts mankind with the permission of God! So whatever Satan does, God ok's it. God created Satan and ok's his actions, who's worse?

Now here is a thought I can springboard from. What if Satan is only doing his job, as assigned by God?

In order to appreciate the "good", there must be a basis for comparison, hence evil. One cannot exist independently of the other, otherwise it would simply "be" or the status quo. Would there even be a point to free will, if there was nothing to choose between?

Given that, perhaps God just made a job opening, somebody needing to play the "heavy" so souls would truly have a basis for free will and a learning experience. Kind of like Judas having a role to fill.

I know this isn't an original thought, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Ultimately, who knows.

I can only speculate, however, I do believe you are correct! It is my opinion that Satan only serves as a catalyst to allow us to fully utilize our free-will. He tempts and suggests wicked things to us, in order for us to be fully responsible for the choices we make. He creates situations that give us the choice between good and evil so that we are not mindless robots that only do good. If we do good, it must be by an aware choice for our free-will to actually matter.

Satan is a examiner, something created to ensure you follow the law. Isn't it supposed to be his 'little voice' inside your head that whispers away at you "Hey, you didn't do - go do now!". A psychological tool to make you police yourself.

I thought the word sin was a archery term for when your arrow missed its target so came in considerably later than the bible was concluded.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

God, on the flip side, stands for others in equality. God ensures that we all learn His law of love form the earth and nature. Satan was our choice, but does not need to be now. We have free will with every choice we make. God allows us to live on our own merits.

Why is it that religious people such as yourself are not totally honest about the contents of the Old Testament?

If you buy into the OT and believe it to be true then what about the many instances where this God character advises the Israelites to totally wipe out whole cities and villages. God advises at times to not even spare women and children...............where does his supposed 'law of love' fit into the, literally, millions of people that were massacred by his order (I've studied it and was shocked at the massive numbers of people that were murdered at his direction).

In all honestly, if you believe the OT to be true then you must believe that God is a genocidal maniac!!!

God knows everything that has, is, and ever will happen ---> Satan was created by God ---> God knew what Satan was going to do... and let him ---> Satan is simply filling a role God needs to be filled.

Without Satan, God will not look so pure a figure to those in the religious circles. Satan is simply a scapegoat to everyone, and really doesn't exist. In the past few months. I have come to understand that even though I say I believe in God to the outside world I really don't. God does not exist. Satan does not exist. The only reason people think they exist is because "powerful" people have told them so. If no one questions things, then they are going to believe anything they are told to.

Find your own meaning in life. Forget everything that has been fed to you in church and the media. There is no good or evil, but only the choices we make and how they are perceived.

Wow, many interesting posts and points since I logged off last night.

Personally, I favor a morally ambiguous approach to the whole "Good and Evil" thing, and the same goes for God and Satan, since, as some have said, God has been known to order murder once in a while too, and Satan, well, my favorite notion is, he may just be doing his job. In the end, it might be too large an idea for us humans to comprehend - after all, we're only mortals, and we cannot really impose our limited understanding of "Good and evil" on gods, who, if they exist, have a much greater understanding of the concept.

Though personally, I believe that, at least in the human understanding of it, good and evil are only words used to dirty someone else's actions because in your subjective view, they are "evil". A more accurate description of things like all the world's nasty genocides, murders and so on, would in my opinion be, "Chaos" and/or "disharmony".

Well, just some thoughts brought on by the posts. Keep 'em coming!

If God exists, then we are probably accountable to this God. The universe may have meaning and purpose. Plus, our own existence may not cease at physical death. If God does not exist, however, then we are probably here by chance and are not accountable to some transcendent being. This life may be all we have, so live your life however you see fit and enjoy it.

The idea of Satan/evil is usually determined by which path you choose, however, there are many people who experience evil without having faith in God.

Numbers of believers have fallen in all Western societies due to a number of influences - movies, TV, MSM etc. Anti-social messages serve to work on destroying this idea of "accountability" to a higher power - whether it be to a God, parents, teachers, etc. When everyone is sold this idea, society breaks down. Look around this board, around your world....You may argue that all people have free will to choose between right and wrong...and I would agree. But what is right and wrong based on? Some world argue it's good and evil.

nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so.

P.S
never argue with a moron. onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

Originally posted by randyvs
Of course there may be the off chance, the witness is in truth a Satanist and like many he chooses to hide behind atheism. For fear of any reprisals from his peers.

Interesting concept, though it's debatable whether I'd receive more reprisals as a satanist than as an atheist (especially here in the bible belt where I am). See, satanists actually believe in Satan, a character in the bible. The satanist and the christian are both theists and therefore have much more in common than an atheist and a christian. Oddly enough there are tons of churches in this area that are populated with ex-satanists.

Originally posted by alienreality

People don't actually believe in Mother Goose, but we don't see them starting threads and bashing and hating on mother goose do we?

It must be that human thing, (poor oppressed, selfish me syndrome) they have...

People who believe in Mother Goose aren't trying to influence government to codify their beliefs into law, nor trying to stop evolution theory being taught, nor are using tax-free status for gain, etc.

As I replied to another thread let's add up the figures from the Bible itself.

Satan murdered 10 people.
God murdered 2.5 million.
Both desevere incarceration, Satan as a serial killer and God as a genocidal lunatic. I refuse to listen to arguments that God only did it to teach us the right way, after all isn't one of his rules "stone them to death if they pick up sticks on the Sabbath" wtf!