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Originally posted by Sahabi
No, Satan is not evil.
Satan is only a temptor, and according to the Book of Job, Satan tempts mankind with the permission of God! So whatever Satan does, God ok's it. God created Satan and ok's his actions, who's worse?
Satan is NOT ruler of the Hell. This is not stated as such in the Bible at all. It is a myth incorporated into Christianity by the book "Paradise Lost" by John Milton.
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
[Deuteronomy 24:16]
Nothing is Satan's fault, we are responsible for our own actions. Satan does not do evil, we do.
Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by AQuestion
Does not the Book of Job illustrate that Satan asks permission from God before he does what he does? How can we reconcile this?
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by randyvs
Dear randyvs,
I have not read all of the witnesses posts; however, based on your statements and the fact that the witness can respond to them, I make a tentative finding in your favor. The witness cannot claim to be both a atheist and then say that Satan may have a defense. The only out is for him to say that there is a Satan and no God ever existed, in which case he cannot claim that God is bad and Satan good. I do however disagree with your requested punishment, instead I say his words, all of them, will live on forever so that others will know of his insincerity. So it is written, so it shall be.
Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by AQuestion
Satan asked God's permission to tempt and afflict Job with 'misfortune' in a bet to see if God's faithful servant would backslide. God signed off on it and gave His approval.
If Satan is evil, why did he ask God first, then why did God allow it?
If Satan is guilty by tempting even though he didn't actually make us do anything, would that make God guilty also as Satan's accomplice?
Originally posted by Sahabi
No, Satan is not evil.
Satan is only a temptor, and according to the Book of Job, Satan tempts mankind with the permission of God! So whatever Satan does, God ok's it. God created Satan and ok's his actions, who's worse?
Originally posted by TiggersTheMan
Originally posted by Sahabi
No, Satan is not evil.
Satan is only a temptor, and according to the Book of Job, Satan tempts mankind with the permission of God! So whatever Satan does, God ok's it. God created Satan and ok's his actions, who's worse?
Now here is a thought I can springboard from. What if Satan is only doing his job, as assigned by God?
In order to appreciate the "good", there must be a basis for comparison, hence evil. One cannot exist independently of the other, otherwise it would simply "be" or the status quo. Would there even be a point to free will, if there was nothing to choose between?
Given that, perhaps God just made a job opening, somebody needing to play the "heavy" so souls would truly have a basis for free will and a learning experience. Kind of like Judas having a role to fill.
I know this isn't an original thought, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Ultimately, who knows.
Originally posted by davidsewell
Great posts so far!!!
My own personal opinion (I don't consider myself to be "religious" but spiritual: they overlap a lot!) is yes and no.
Assuming there is a god, I always considered it to be an everlasting, unified energy. But this entity or consciousness couldn't experience anything without some form of self deception; it needed to convince it self that it was not something, only in order to believe that there was something separate from it.
Representing that particular intention, perhaps Satan was the entity, ray of light, or spark that was asked or ordained by god to bring a piece of god from one side of the mirror to the other. As an active agent in creation, there was great pride in this accomplishment.
But the so called "fall" was an inevitable consequence of this action, occurring simultaneously with the first action. As god forgot Satan or cast him out, so Satan forgot god. With it came loneliness, despair, and anger and ignorance.
I think we all have some "Satan" in us; remembering our true connection with source and each other and accepting again the good and the bad will help humanity evolve.edit on 13-7-2011 by davidsewell because: edit: good timing reading the post above!!!!
Originally posted by Sahabi
No, Satan is not evil.
Satan is only a temptor, and according to the Book of Job, Satan tempts mankind with the permission of God! So whatever Satan does, God ok's it. God created Satan and ok's his actions, who's worse?
Satan is NOT ruler of the Hell. This is not stated as such in the Bible at all. It is a myth incorporated into Christianity by the book "Paradise Lost" by John Milton.
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
[Deuteronomy 24:16]
Nothing is Satan's fault, we are responsible for our own actions. Satan does not do evil, we do.
Originally posted by Adyta
Originally posted by Warpedconsciousness
Anyone that is in the presence of Gods infinite love and grace and decides it isn't enough is pure evil.
This is my biggest problem with religion. "I love you, but if you don't love me back it's an eternity of fire and torture for you! But don't forget... I looove youuuu
Originally posted by AQuestion
Dear TigersTheMan,
Firstly, what an interesting choice in usernames, did you pick it before or after it was found out that he was cheating on his wife with prostitutes? Just wondering.
Originally posted by AQuestion
Must there be evil for there to be good? Nope. You can have good and not have evil without having stasis. You need to define evil. Evil and sin are different. Sin is anything short of perfection, evil is wrongdoing, that requires a bad intent.
Originally posted by AQuestion
If I am blind in one eye, I am not perfect; but, it doesn't make me evil.
Originally posted by AQuestion
Where we sit on the the spectrum is our choice, God does not place us there, we choose. Our choices define us, not God and not Satan. We can choose to be evil, we end up evil. Evil is selfishness.
Originally posted by davidsewell
reply to post by AQuestion
Thank you for your respectful response, AQuestion. I'm not sensitive to posts, just more of a daily lurker. I sometimes post on the "other" forum known to be full of morans, but find that on ATS, there at least is the semblance of real dialogue. And I really don't have the time for it, the GF gets mad!!!
As per your post and to continue to use the number analogy, I think prior to any first cause there is a zero/infinite existing simultaneously. However, with the first mover/cause/thought, the divide is not from one to two but three. It's like there are two parts, but the third part divides them and is required for them to form/exist. And the source of that thought is the divide, almost reflected back on itself.
I guess this allows me to view something in creation that is more than the sum of its parts. Again these are only personal feelings...numbers and words often are insufficient to portray true meaning. It's like they approach the idea but never quite get there!!!
*the GF is away with her mom on vacation, so....edit on 14-7-2011 by davidsewell because: added *