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Whats next? Ejection seats that dont eject?

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posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 03:19 AM
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Attempts by the Ministry of Defence to save money will leave all 232 of the RAF's new Eurofighter/Typhoon aircraft with a gun they cannot fire....

It was too late to stop the first tranche of 55 British aircraft being fitted with the Mauser BK27 gun, but the rest would have a lead or concrete weight in its place....

To make matters worse, each individual part of the makeweight's shape also had to weigh exactly the same as the real thing. In short, the cheapest option was to fit the cannon...


Fighter With A Gun It Cannot Fire

Ok, so not only did they not save the money they were going to save by eliminating the gun, they had to figure out what to replace it with, which cost them time and money. And now they will probably spend more money to they to make the gun work now that it is already there.


Another case of cost cutting gone wrong, just to show, the cheapest solution is not always the best solution.

-dnnx



RAB

posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 03:25 AM
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BALLS

They are fitting the gun or a recce pack to ALL of them!!

Source is wrong!



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 03:32 AM
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New seats for the Polish forces?




posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by RAB
BALLS

They are fitting the gun or a recce pack to ALL of them!!

Source is wrong!


I hope you're right. The Eurofighter is very agile and perfect for dogfighting. It should definitely have a cannon.

If it has been axed to save money, they have gone too far this time.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 07:43 AM
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Oh this is too rich, I cant stop laughing the EF equipped with a display gun
What's next tanks without machine guns to save money. Seriously Britain needs to stop cutting its funding and its forces, they should take an example from Bush, you may hate him but he is dead right when it comes to military spending IMO.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 08:25 AM
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sadly the story is true
Germany, Spain and Italy Eurofighters will have the working cannon but the UK version won't work to save costs

UK Eurofighter pilots are really pi$$ed off because after they fire all their missles they won't have anything to defend themselves with

the excuss from the MoD is that in modern warfare air combat doesn't need a cannon

Stupid MoD



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 08:34 AM
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I personally would not like to be in a dogfight combat situation and right after I press the red button, just silence and no gun firing. That would be pretty bad.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
sadly the story is true
Germany, Spain and Italy Eurofighters will have the working cannon but the UK version won't work to save costs

UK Eurofighter pilots are really pi$$ed off because after they fire all their missles they won't have anything to defend themselves with

the excuss from the MoD is that in modern warfare air combat doesn't need a cannon

Stupid MoD


Someone really needs to address this problem.

There needs to be a government that changes where all the money is going.

I'm not saying give it all to the MOD, just give them a little more from any wasted money.

Tories would probably make even more cut backs.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 09:35 AM
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i doubt the Tories would make more cut backs, they have a tradition of a good well equipped military - it's Labour who have destroyed our once proud military

we have the troops but we simply don't have the equippment anymore


we don't need to put more money in just spend it properly on good flexible systems

Cheap and Flexible Modular Tanks

switch from the SA80 to the G36 range of weapons

withdraw from Iraq within 2 years



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
i doubt the Tories would make more cut backs, they have a tradition of a good well equipped military - it's Labour who have destroyed our once proud military


Well if they can give the money that was cut from the MOD budget and still make hopsitals, schools better, I'll be impressed.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Oh this is too rich, I cant stop laughing the EF equipped with a display gun
What's next tanks without machine guns to save money. Seriously Britain needs to stop cutting its funding and its forces, they should take an example from Bush, you may hate him but he is dead right when it comes to military spending IMO.


CUTTING VETERANS BENEFITS AND PAY AND GIVING THE MONEY THEY DESERVE TO RICH ARMS COMPANIES RUN BY YOUR BUDDIES IS CERTAINLY GOOD MILITARY SPENDING POLICY.....WAY TO GO BUSH!!!!



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 11:28 AM
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I thought I saw where MOD was going ahead with this craft using the latest HLD mounted in the cockpit. (Harsh Language Device.)



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:17 PM
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Groingrinder your damn straight it is its keeping our military number one it has given us the best fighter in the sky the Raptor, and guess what our jets actually have cannons that work
Oh and I forgot to mention all of out other flashy toys w have gotten thanks to our budget but its a long list and Im tired.


[edit on 14-8-2004 by WestPoint23]



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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I can't believe it, this is the biggest idiocy I ever saw. At the end they saved 2.5 mil from the "105 billion project". It was maybe stupid not the ad the canon to the F-4 Phantom, but CANON WITHOUT ROUNDS?



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:44 PM
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Do I detect a double standard Westpoint? You mock the RAF for not having guns on the Typhoon yet at every opportunity you bang on about the dogfight being dead! Do you expect to be able to shoot down a MiG with a cannon from 100+ miles away?

Just for the record I disagree strongly that the dogfight is dead and all those radars, missiles and stealth, while marvellous, never work 100% of the time as radar coverage is unavoidably anomolous and no one has ever found a cure for that. Therefore I also agree that the decision to leave RAF Typhoon pilots without a gun is a scandalous error that will hopefully be rectified (I've already seen reports to this effect).



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
Do I detect a double standard Westpoint? You mock the RAF for not having guns on the Typhoon yet at every opportunity you bang on about the dogfight being dead! Do you expect to be able to shoot down a MiG with a cannon from 100+ miles away?

Just for the record I disagree strongly that the dogfight is dead and all those radars, missiles and stealth, while marvellous, never work 100% of the time as radar coverage is unavoidably anomolous and no one has ever found a cure for that. Therefore I also agree that the decision to leave RAF Typhoon pilots without a gun is a scandalous error that will hopefully be rectified (I've already seen reports to this effect).


There is no problem to have the aircraft without the gun. Maybe in future it is not needed. But HAVING A GUN THAT CANNOT WORK JUST TO SAVE 2.5 mil? I can't remember any aircraft with BUILT-IN NON FUNCTIONAL GUN.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:59 PM
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At least they should replace the gun with some aditional electronics, or something usefull not with balast.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 04:06 PM
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Certain details (like the saving 2.5m blah blah) are just the result of lazy journalism but there IS a problem with not having guns in fighters. We tried it with the Sea Vixen and the Yanks tried it with the early F-4's amongst others, it was a mistake and it was put right. At least with the guns actually on board this time the mistake will be put right quickly and relatively cheaply, not so much a case of 'what we can afford' as 'what we can afford on this years budget'.



posted on Aug, 14 2004 @ 01:18 AM
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yet at every opportunity you bang on about the dogfight being dead! Do you expect to be able to shoot down a MiG with a cannon from 100+ miles away?


What I mean by the days of the dogfights are dead is that it is not the main engagement tactic any more and it is not that common. But certainly there will be instances where you have to engage in a dogfight for one reason or another, thus the need for a cannon just in case.


RAB

posted on Aug, 14 2004 @ 06:47 AM
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The Eurofighter Cannon


23. Although perhaps the most important of Eurofighter's armaments, the BVRAAM missile is just one of a range of weapons with which the aircraft will be equipped to tackle targets at different ranges. One of Admiral Blackham's roles is to assess the appropriate weapons mix to provide the capabilities needed for Eurofighter



We need to provide ourselves with a reasonable mix of weapons. Sometimes, for example, we shall demand that our pilots visually identify contacts before they engage them and in those circumstances we would want a short-range missile. In other circumstances we may be prepared to have different sorts of rules of engagement and that would allow us to use a longer range missile such as a BVRAAM ... The actual balance of numbers of weapons will obviously depend on the relative likelihood of the threats ... identified.[84]

24. As a result of such deliberations, the MoD has now decided not to fit the Mauser cannon on the RAF's Eurofighters in the second and subsequent batches of the aircraft, and those to be fitted to the 55 aircraft of the first batch would not be used. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary told the House


Source: www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk...



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