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Topics about "Anonymous" on ATS

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posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by jheated5
 


The people calling themselves Lulzsec had already seperated from Anonymous before the PSN hack. The only thing linking Anonymous with that hack was a text file with the "We are legion" tagline, despite all other traces of the hack being removed. They crowed about it for months on twitter while doing the same thingg to porn.com and other sites. During this time they had NO LINKS to Anonymous.

And, Skeptic Overlord, in order for your metaphor to in any way reflect the reality, you would have to say that the guests broke into the neighbours pool the day after the party. Surely I cannot be held responsible for the actions of all the guests who have ever attended one of my parties? Why can't you admit that one of the things you held against us was not our fault? I understand the reaction of a parent whose child has been hurt, but for that particular injury we were not to blame.

The reason that Lulzsec broke away is exactly because Anonymous would not tolerate such actions. They started their own little group to get their lulz because Anonymous will not allow any leaders, will not allow any op that is not sanctioned by the majority of Anons. Repurcussions are swift and effective. A cursory examination of the facts is enough to see the difference between the PSN hack and any of the avowed Anonymous ops.

We do not commit fraud. We do not go after gamers. None of our victims are innocent. I had you down as more fair-minded than this.




posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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I don't expect you to admit to a major crime here, fact of the matter is whether you dealt with them accordingly or not you were infiltrated or guilty.... The best part of me is saying they were Anon and you couldn't know what they would do until after the fact and did what had to be done to get rid of them........



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by AnonYmous81
I had you down as more fair-minded than this.

I am. But also well aware of the "law of unintended consequences."

If you take a boulder to the top of a hill, and give it a shove without looking as to where it might roll, you're still responsible for the damage it causes.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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Dear AnonYmous81,

I am no hacker and couldn't protect myself from your organization if I had to.I am but a single individual. Your organization says that they believe in no forgiveness and never forgetting, I disagree, will you shut me down? I do not accuse you of what others do, I ask what participation you had in stopping others (even the bad ones) from being heard. You accuse the PTB of being evil; but, then use their techniques against them My problem is with techniques employed by "anonymous". You can find me, do it. Expose me then expose who you are. Be truthful and not anonymous, show guts not style. Do you really believe that strength comes from numbers? Strength is from inside, it is your courage and not the other guys.

TPTB are cowards and so is "anonymous", live it. The trickiest coward should not win, the one that is not a coward should win. It is neither of you. It is those who choose to give, not those who choose to take.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


They don't attack governments. They steal GI Joe's email password 90 thousand times. That is gonna change the world. They get inside information where to look for open servers and release spammloads of useless drivle.
They go into a nerd rage and attack PSN because the PC was their god platform for gaming and the consoles have turned the PC into a dinosaur gaming network. They say they are going to attack big names like that Fed guy, then nothing happens.

It's obvious their govt handlers reigned them in on that one, and the magic insider info is controlled spoon fed cointel ops that never has anything to do with real sensitive information on them open servers.

Every step of the way the MSM is dutifully pushing this story, headlining essentially non events.

This is an operation coinciding with the push in Congress to pass tough internet regulation bills. They are working hand in hand.

The worshipping sheeple have no clue because they got their blinders on. All they see are rainbows and unicorns. The same words keep popping up from a shattered Messiah message from years back, change, hope and transparency. Promises people love to hear and will rally around have been recycled for the war effort on the internet, and it is against all of us.
edit on 15-7-2011 by TinfoilTP because: spelling
edit on 15-7-2011 by TinfoilTP because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by drew1749
No you aren't.

Anonymous isn't /b/ anymore.

/b/ gave birth to a movement...and those people have since moved on. Or at least most of them.

Shows how much you know.


I'm afraid it is you who is lacking knowledge about the entire concept of Anonymous.

Anonymous, by its very nature, is infinitely fissiparous.

The attention seeking drama queens who are getting all the media attention are just one group of people who are using the Anonymous banner.

To suggest that they're somehow the ''real Anon'' or more legitimate than any other group which identifies themselves in this way, is completely contradictory to the whole idea of Anonymous.

The headline-grabbing group who churn out this generic and vague, yet eternally populist, ''stick it to the man'' rhetoric have created an agenda-driven group which consequently places severe limitations on what actions this particular group can and can't do, which means that they have a set of rules and hierarchical structure within their group.

Not that that invalidates them as Anon, just that it shows they have chosen a very limited scope to target in their ''operations''. It doesn't stop the fact that another Anon group could have the diametric opposite agenda and support the causes which the other one decries. Both of them are Anonymous, and neither would be the ''correct'' one.

Saying that ''I support Anon'' because you support the actions of one particular group who use that name is ridiculous. That's the equivalent of a Barack Obama supporter expressing their support for him by saying ''I support politicians''.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


that's the thing. because there's no legal recourse, no oversight, no one person responsible, they can ALL do whatever they want with impunity. can't blame it on the guy from china, cause he's only one of 1000s, and it would boil down to which guy from china. or was he even in china. maybe only the server was in china. strategically, albeit illegally, it's useful against organizations that are sue happy and underhanded, but it's now branched out into being useful for initimidating people in general (something conspiracy theorists have been predicting it would devolve into from the outset).

some of them have some strange belief that because you are not a wolf casing the flock for something to eat, that you must be a nice juicy meal yourself. this is precisely why survival of the fittest scenarios are so incredibly detrimental to human civilizations. they make sense at first but when you start extrapolating, the circle of wolves get larger and larger, till they've eaten all your substance and turn and rend one another.

edit on 15-7-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 07:26 AM
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Never pick a side.
You just limit yourself.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by The Utopian Penguin
Never pick a side.
You just limit yourself.


what's that mean? another veiled threat? what? you mean my life could be worse than it already has been? no thanks.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 07:32 AM
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posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by The Utopian Penguin
www.cbsnews.com...


yeah i read about this a few days ago. back to my original question.
what does "never pick a side" mean?



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by undo
 


There are two sides to a coin.
Never pick a side.
Whats left ?



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by The Utopian Penguin
reply to post by undo
 


There are two sides to a coin.
Never pick a side.
Whats left ?



neutrality. in other words, stay outta the way and let the wolves deal with each other in whatever way they see fit. do you happen to have a ladder available? i don't think they can climb.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by AnonYmous81
The PSN hack was Lulzsec.

And where did they originate?


Sorry SO, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

If we apply this argument to ATS and yourself, then you and this website are responsible for the deaths of real people thanks to certain individuals (unsure if I can mention names/ATS handles) going on killing sprees. They have been "educated" or trained here on various topics, from weapons to mind-control. I don't for one minute think you are responsible for these people and their crimes, much as Anonymous are not responsible for the actions of a few ex-members branching out.

Let's be fair.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Goathief
Sorry SO, but you're barking up the wrong tree.

You have a reasonably valid point, and it's worth mentioning, but I don't think it necessarily compares well. We (ATS) never adopted an activist identity and challenged our users to go out and focus on specific targets.

"Someone" claiming to represent "Anonymous" identified Sony as a target, initially because of their legal actions against a PlayStation 3 hacker/cracker. A clear line of dots begins there, and ends with personal information of innocent people appearing online.

I know, I know... the resulting lament is that the "Anonymous" movement claims no connection with who ultimately released the personal info of innocent private persons, but it still amounts to a non-government target where no real social change for the betterment of all would result, and collateral damage that hurt people.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Those almighty anons have godlike wisdom, they know everything... even about ATS...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
Anonymous knows that ATS is cointelpro and CIA funded BTW, this is no secret. The only ones that are pretending this is a secret is the moderators and the sock accounts that they use on here. How do i know this? Cant say, pay attention folks and you will know in your heart this is true. The truth will be revealed when it is time.


So how many of you ATS'ers and staffers are holding your breath while waiting for this truth to be revealed about ATS, to us and to the world?



Seriously, I think Anonymous is being taken way to literally and seriously... And there is the inherent danger.

Anyone can claim to be Anonymous, any motivated group, government or agency... From there the possibilities are limitless but the prime suspects remain the same.




posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlordI know, I know... the resulting lament is that the "Anonymous" movement claims no connection with who ultimately released the personal info of innocent private persons, but it still amounts to a non-government target where no real social change for the betterment of all would result, and collateral damage that hurt people.


This is the crux of the matter. Lulzsec never claimed to be Anonymous at the time of the PSN hack. They had already branched off. The left the text file purely and simply to cause a sh*t storm, which they found hilarious (for the Lulz, remember). Another motivation was their being butthurt at having to branch out. They were left in no uncertainty that actions such as they were proposing had NO place under the Anonymous rubric. They made no secret of the fact that it was they, and not Anonymous, that conducted the hack.

Aaaargh! Because of you I've had to desecrate my machine by forcing it to run the pathetically inefficient and desctructive code of the dreaded twatter.com. Thanks. Even then I failed. Lol. Sorry, but you'll have to look at Lulzsec's posts for yourself (twitter.com...#!/LulzSec). You want to go back to the end of May, beginning of June. You will find plenty of refs to the PSN hack, and also see from the girth of the ego regarding ruining FB users relationships why they got such a kick out of what they did, and why they had no qualms about releasing all sorts of private data.

You'lll also see why I've gone to such lengths to explain that they were nothing to do with us, and still aren't.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by AnonYmous81
You'lll also see why I've gone to such lengths to explain that they were nothing to do with us, and still aren't.

I understand your points, really. However, it comes across more like the northern Baptists claiming no association with the southern Baptists. A shared core belief system, open to interpretation, with no centralized leadership, and potential for mayhem.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by AnonYmous81
I had you down as more fair-minded than this.

I am. But also well aware of the "law of unintended consequences."

If you take a boulder to the top of a hill, and give it a shove without looking as to where it might roll, you're still responsible for the damage it causes.


"The law of unintended consequences" goes all the way around the entire sphere of influence.

From those claiming to do "good" through organizations like Anonymous and their ilk.

To those only giving a platform for people to speak their minds without any action ever being intended.

That is not declaring anything or anyone from ATS Administration or members is culpable.

But to have a fully rounded perspective everyone has to be seeing the larger picture.

While I certainly commend your trip to Washington D.C. ultimately it did not do a thing.

With respect to you, it may have initiated a conversation, but ultimately non-profits, lobbyist groups, special interest groups who line the pockets of politicians, who assist them through media coverage, and or keeping them in office is the only thing truly going to influence their decisions on a bill due to the apathy, corruption, and the re-election machine of the career-politicians like 99% of them have become nowadays.

This is in no way condoning anything Anonymous does nor is it laying blame on ATS either.

With all due respect, Bill, I absolutely love ATS, but it is useless in some regards.

I am speaking of ATS in the same regards as the Federal Government as compared to the same, the Federal Government, when using the example of organizations like the Drug Enforcement Administration, until the Federal Government, State Department, and Military get involved with the War on Drugs, it is a useless fight to fight.

It becomes an Ouroboros without going after the Golden Triangle and Golden Crescent.

My analogy here is simple in that our members are the hypothetical "D.E.A." here.

And the "drug" we're trying to stomp out here on ATS is ignorance not hashish, coc aine, or marijuana.

In other words, while Deny Ignorance might be a great rally banner, it is a never ending fight.

Not in the sense of an honorable battle but ultimately an un-winnable battle not worth fighting.

Please take my comments in the manner they are meant not as a criticism but as a critique.

Being a conspiracy theorist now since 1979 has taught me many things.

1) You never fight a losing battle needlessly as it only wastes your time and everyone else's.

2) Never flog a dead horse with ignorant people because they have already closed their minds.

3) The Government will only listen if you are willing to pay the corrupt piper to lure the rats away.

My above commentary is because I see ATS is missing something at its very core.

Positive action more than words on a screen, more than radio play, and more than interested members.



Due to the actions of groups like Anonymous cybercrime will kill organizations like ATS too.

By the mere disagreement and eventual shutdown of Freedom of Speech across the Internet.

Ultimately, in the end, I do not fear Anonymous shutting down our freedoms solely by their actions.

I fear a lack of positive, legal, and non-violent action being the very thing which does it.



Especially when so many people are not on the same page when it comes to the very words this website is about, conspiracy theory, and the plausible deniability of the populace en masse of a public too unwilling to face the actions of their Government, and what those in office do in their names, without their consent.

The Complete Idiot's Guide to U.S. Government and Politics




Amazon Review :

Understanding how our government functions and the political forces that influence it is vital for all Americans. As a comprehensive overview and history of the subject, this book is designed to help anyone interested in learning about our government and the origins of its complex inner workings, our political system, and key elements that have affected our growth as a nation- all while serving as the best supplementary reading a student can get.

*Author is an experienced Advanced Placement teacher

*Students looking to take AP exams are a ready audience-along with citizenship applicants and CNN junkies

*Large renewable market

*Suitable as supplemental reading for coursework


Ultimately, until you run for President, or ATS members get off their duffs, nothing will change.

Nonprofit Kit For Dummies




Amazon Review :

Tips and techniques to help your nonprofit thrive in any economy Due to the recent downturn in the economy, a significant number of nonprofit organizations have experienced a major decrease in funding and contributions. Nonprofit Kit for Dummies, 3rd Edition caters to these organizations and shows you how your nonprofit can thrive and survive even in the current economic climate. With 25% new and revised material, Nonprofit Kit For Dummies, 3rd Edition offers new tips and information on everything you need to navigate the process of setting up and effectively running a nonprofit organization. Covers raising money, applying for grants, and developing the perfect mission statement Details on how state laws vary; conducting program evaluations; and conforming to accounting standards CD includes forms, worksheets, templates, and more Whether you're thinking about starting your own nonprofit or are already working in the sector, Nonprofit Kit For Dummies, 3rd Edition is a valuable source for getting the latest information and practical advice on running a prosperous nonprofit organization.


Or until this website or people within start non-profits influencing politics nothing will change.

The Competition of Ideas: The World of the Washington Think Tanks




Amazon Review :

Murray Weidenbaum has been a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a speaker at meetings at the Brookings Institution, the Cato Institute, and the Heritage Foundation and has also written for their publications, and served as a reviewer of ongoing studies. In The Competition of Ideas, Weidenbaum examines the political economy of these vital institutions, drawing heavily on several decades of involvement in their activities. He is uniquely able to see their accomplishments as well as their shortcomings. Because of the importance of the activities of their organizations, and their tax-exempt status, think tanks are held to a high standard. Weidenbaum shows that sometimes think tanks are more tank than think - major think tanks are often predictable in the positions they take on public issues and are far better at analyzing the shortcomings of other elements of society than of their own operations. The overarching issue of quality control, Weidenbaum holds, deserves more attention than it has attained in the think tank world. This book presents a careful, balanced account of where think tanks have been and where thay are now headed. Given the high levels of professionalism in many think tanks, a fundamental change in the attitude of their management is important. The compelling need is less for the wielder of policy than for the lucid synthesizer of relevant research and analysis. Likewise, society needs sensitivity to the long-term concerns of the citizenry more urgently than rapid response to the opportunities of the moment. Future competition, particularly among the major think tanks, could well be centered, not on achieving greater visibility, but on developing responses to economic, environmental, and national security problems that are likely to be adopted and carried out. Murray Weidenbaum is Edward Mallinckrodt Distinguished University Professor of Economics at Washington University in St. Louis and Honorary Chairman of the Weidenbaum Center on the Economy, Government and Public Policy. He was the first chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to Ronald Reagan and also served as a member of Reagan’s Economic Policy Advisory Board. He is the author of numerous books including Business and Government in the Global Marketplace, One-Armed Economist (Transaction), and The Bamboo Network.


Or even ATS forming a legal think-tank on paperwork filing with Washington D.C., the actions of Anonymous, will be much more powerful than anything ATS ever has accomplished, due to our inaction of a positive action to negate their negative actions, other than keeping them from recruiting people, talking about them, and or anything else.

Again, this is not to condone Anonymous, I see them as nothing more than terrorists.

It is however stating within the world, negative action usually overpowers non-actions, and even to a degree positive actions, as evidenced by the Mainstream Media and their only influence on the world in parroting the negative actions of idiots to sell newspapers.

Rhetoric without action behind it is nothing more than a hollow gesture.

Everywhere I go throughout the world, I talk about ATS, and invite people.

Everywhere I go throughout the world, I talk about the topics herein, and point to their lack of action.

Everywhere I go throughout the world, I talk about the books I suggest here, and loan them out.

But it is disheartening being a member on ATS at times because of the lack of action I see here.

People come here only to talk about the topics which the Three Amigos so gratefully opened up ATS for, but talk influences discussion, discussion negates apathy, ignorance, and lack of knowledge, but after a while talk becomes meaningless when nothing is done more than flapping lips and typing fingers, because of the negative, illegal, and morally corrupt actions of groups like Anonymous, the questionable actions of Wikileaks, and the entire lack of knowledge of 99% of the sheeple too stupid to question their own Government.



In other words, Bill, never allow ATS to become the status quo, it is unbecoming.

It is a quagmire of quicksand, bog, and fruitless behavior for those waiting to die.

Whether on your feet or on your knees silently awaiting the hangman.
edit on 7/15/11 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.



posted on Jul, 15 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Well, that I can't really argue with. All I can say is that you will have plenty of chances to re-judge us by our actions. We are aware of the increasing responsibility that we have, and as our scope becomes greater, so does the onus on us to not allow any actions to take place that leave us open to this kind of criticism.

When you see Anons picking up litter in your local playground, stepping in to bring food to those who have been deserted by the authorities, I hope you will be as quick to commend as to condemn.





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