Topics about "Anonymous" on ATS

reply to post by Majic


Hmmm...maybe the line is a bit fuzzier than I first imagined (although it need not be).

You know, when I think more on this, it comes to mind that there is a kind of "Heisenberg uncertainty principle" at work with information. That is to say, you can't observe information purely impartially (though it certainly pays to try)...the act of observation itself is a sort of participation in something. And when the information interacts with what's already in your nervous system, both the information and you, yourself as observer are changed.

So observation (intake of information) itself entails participation. But participation in what? That's the 1 quintillion-dollar question that everyone on the Internet is asking and answering for themselves every day...by the very choices they make as to what to read and how to respond.

Ultimately information is a vector, not a scalar -- that is, it doesn't just sit there, but it comes from somewhere and it tends to go on somewhere else (unless you go to strict efforts to prevent this from happening). Think of each piece of information as a little moving arrow that you can intercept for a short while and perhaps transform in some way, rather than something that sits in your hand as a lump. The metaphysical basis for this is the fact that infomation by its very nature refers to something else outside itself and derives significance from its relationship as a part to a whole.

Still doesn't mean we have to put up with a bunch of dumb punks who add noise but no signal to our beloved ATS, though.

I am astounded by the lack of knowledge, understanding, and foresight about what 'Anonymous' actually is. Genuinely, I find it hard to believe that everyone here seems to be buying into falsehoods.

1) Anonymous isn't a movement. It is an online form of the 'Black Bloc', a tactic for hiding oneself amongst many who are like you, but not, in order to perpetrate potentially illegal acts of civil disobedience and fringe 'technical criminality'. The simple fact that you are part of the 'Anon' group at that given time gives you the protection and fellowship of the 'Anon'.

2) Anonymous doesn't have a set of 'ideals' or a set agenda. What you see in the news, on YouTube videos, and here on ATS are but singular facets of a limitlessly faceted whole. Anonymous is amorphous, and indistinct. It changes at whim and fancy, and responds in unusual and unpredictable fashion to external and internal stimuli. Some elements are predictable, yet unpredictable in their impacts and eventualities.

3) Do NOT attempt to pigeon-hole or assess Anonymous. This is a warning ScepticOverlord, for the communities benefit - if you attempt to classify, define or delimit Anonymous in any way, you will inevitably raise the ire of a part of the Anon. This would be negative for all of us and our community. Classification, delimitation, definition or restrictive description of Anon is the antithesis of what Anonymous is, or isn't. Discuss what the elements of Anon are doing, discuss their actions, their intent, or the potential who is who. But the concept? The most fitting platitude for this is "There is no spoon."

4) Looking for a handle? The only way to begin to understand Anonymous and what gives the concept life, is to understand the technical definition of Anarchism - not the stupid BBC, CNN, MSN version of the word - the true, direct democracy version. Understanding the links between the developing social 'wiki' that is being produced from social media / the internet, and the eventual evolution of society into true anarchism will help you understand what Anon is. Anon says "Low Orbit Ion Cannon", a libertarian "right to carry" activist says "9mm Beretta".

In closing I will say this - don't pretend to know what Anonymous is or isn't, unless you've been there in the street dressed in black with other anonymous people, and stepped outside of 'established behaviour'. It doesn't matter what you're fighting for, as long as you're part of the Anonymous Bloc, the fellowship will shield you.

Deny the ignorance on this one people.

The Revenant.

Originally posted by ADVISOR

As ATS member I must say that I would be proud when I was able to wear it and promote this sites motto.
Sweatshirt also maybe...

Whatever happened with that ATS store. Cause I want one too.

Anonymous may resolve to illegal ways to get things done. Who made it illegal in the first place ?
That people might get effected is not good, but if it's the price we have to pay for freedom then it's a small fee In my humble opinion.

“There were all these activists, you know, Berkeley radicals, White Panthers … all trying to stop the war and change things for the better. Then we got flooded with all these ‘flower children’ who were into drugs and sex. Where the hell did the hippies come from?!”

Abbie Hoffman.

Hi, SkepticOverlord, Hi, All.

Yes, this happened to the Yippies and other political movements of the 60s and 70s. It is a shame, and so apparent now that we can look back on those times with more rational, less drug-clouded, minds. The 60s and 70s really were a terrible time of confusion for people and is probably what got us all good and softened up for what is happening today.

There is no need for us to swallow this crap, this time around. Some change is taking place regarding IT and the Internet and the world and I feel as though we are being carefully herded to what the police would refer to as ‘Crime Scene #2’.

I say Screw Anonymous, we at ATS have had enough time to evaluate this for what it is; some contrived tool of some group of folks that don’t have the best interests of The People at heart. They are going to have to go really far at this point to convince me of anything.

Great video, by the way, very inspiring, I wish that I had been here in ’07 to enjoy it. That is the thing indeed, you guys seem to have been prescient then and now regarding what might be closer to the root of what is really going down in terms of the Global Effort Towards a New Feudalism.

reply to post by The Revenant


The point isn't what people in this thread happen to think about the "true" meaning of Anonymous. It's more about how the board as a forum responds to a certain pattern of posting, whereby people are using the name of Anonymous in very specific, pointed ways -- i.e, to drive somebody to their website so they can make ad revenue, or to sell Guy Fawkes baseball caps to teenyboppers, or even (more seriously) to organize a raid on a corporation or government. Or jsut to clutter up the board with attention-seeking drivel.

I think most people who have weighed in in this thread are perfectly conversant with the philosophical principles underpinning Anonymous as it originally emerged, such as they can be said to be. Whether they agree or not. The point right now, today, is to get a handle on what is being done under the banner of Anonymous by all sorts of people pulling in different directions.

Skeptic...

Being a follower of ats, by choice.. I have seen allot of growth... What I find so astonishing, with this site, is it management of complex mentality. In order to evolve as a whole its astonishing how ats its leaders to be specific manage a way to handle such complexity, and at the same time, we actually learn from one another. The principalities of course create the rules here, and to be frank to all, mods to be specific and with all due respect to them, I wont dry snitch or call out names or handles but they do a very good job, and 90 percent of the time keep their ego's out of keeping balance.. I can't speak for them when they get bored, but for the most part, yes I have seen evolution on this site. When I first joined I was talking or communicating with people that thought they were aliens, demons, and what have you.. Now this site is almost normal.. As far as the movement that the topic is condescending to, I see no friends there.. What they are doing has been done before, and will end in the same result, speaking of ego...

Also would point out the last above top secret show was just wonderful, I respect nef, garth, and I am sorry the other hosts that make those shows so wonderful, This is my busy time in life to make money to survive and well, get toys, so I am so busy these days but I know how priceless those shows are when I miss them, and I know just how much I am not learning being away, because so rich in substance, and so rich in just down to earth pro's and cons... SO yes ATS has evolved and I am proud of them...

A proud member..

Bicent76

keep up the good work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by yoyoyoyo
I remain skeptic, but I see where the skeptic OL is coming from. AboveTopSecret is an Idea as just as much as the Anons...

I believe ATS is afraid, Afraid that there picture perfect community is going to come crumbling down... And it has already begun IMO.

I do not think that is the case.

If you read through all the Anonymous threads, you would realize the flaw behind your analysis. Anonymous followers, fans, and possible members were using "Above Top Secret" as an advertising platform. Instead of engaging in intellectual and entertaining conversations, about contemporary issues, people are posting Anonymous videos for recruitment, press releases, and future events. If the Anonymous threads were about actual issues, the people in charge of "Above Top Secret" would praise them for 'denying ignorance'.

"Above Top Secret" is all about intellectual and entertaining theories, which are based upon a wide variety of subject maters. We as visitors provide the content, and Overlord provides an open platform for discussion.

As the Overlord had mentioned in post one, subjects about Anonymous are very well welcomed here. As long as the subject revolves around an issue, the folks here at "ATS" will have no problem with their existence.

Recruiting, press releases, and other forms of advertising do not provide intellectual stimulation.

Make every thread count as something.

The problem with discussions about Anonymous is that most of those who attach themselves to the ''cause'' have no idea about the actual concept of Anon.

When someone says ''I support Anon'', you are saying that you support a movement which bullies and humiliates 11-year-old girls, organises a campaign to put flashing images on an epilepsy forum and advocates the uploading of child porn onto YouTube.

The cringe-making, hactivist ''ethics'', which have supposedly sprouted from this collective in the recent months, completely disregards the fact that they have entirely contradicted the concept of Anonymous.

Schrödinger's Act

reply to post by silent thunder

I can definitely agree there's a tension that exists between the concept of a movement, which seeks to coalesce and shape opinion, and the concept of a discussion forum where differing and potentially opposing opinions are solicited. I'm just pointing out that a movement dedicated to promoting the expression of differing opinions can, in fact, exist.

I see that as a central ideal of ATS, but of course the reality will always fall short of the ideal.

Still, movement toward that goal is possible, and just as other movements assert themselves against opposing forces, so does ATS. In practice, that means taking action to reform or remove those who are unwilling to respect the rights of others to share their opinions without being attacked, and we can be quite unyielding in that respect. There is often much wailing and gnashing of teeth on that point, but it can always be avoided by doing nothing more than following the Golden Rule.

Ultimately, when we "collapse the ATS waveform", I'm hopeful we see the liberation of a great deal of intellectual energy, and the creation of numerous diverse particles of independent thought.

A bit of a tortured metaphor, but I hope you know what I mean.

For The Birds

Originally posted by The Revenant
3) Do NOT attempt to pigeon-hole or assess Anonymous. This is a warning ScepticOverlord, for the communities benefit - if you attempt to classify, define or delimit Anonymous in any way, you will inevitably raise the ire of a part of the Anon.

This is precisely the sort of puerile puffery that discredits whatever shards of credibility might remain under the tattered, ephemeral banner of "Anonymous."

Threats and intimidation are the domain of thugs, posers and hangers-on, and have no place on ATS. As members, we will say what we will say, and no amount of ominous innuendo will change that.

All this shadow puppetry in the supposed name of disparate, temporary ad hoc groups is meaningless, carries the same spooky overtones as a group of children crowded around a Ouija board by flashlight trying to give each other the creeps, and is no more convincing.

No one can speak for Anonymous, because that very act exposes the fraud of doing so. Yet you make claims on "their" behalf, presuming to predict what "they" will do and dictate what can or cannot be said about them/it/whatever. The self-contradiction of doing this disproves itself, and is emblematic of the bizarre blend of irrationality and cognitive dissonance surrounding the endless conflicting claims of what "Anonymous" is.

"Anonymous" is whatever people make it out to be: at best a hazy ideal, most often an amorphous, ever-changing myth, and at worst an excuse for crime and sociopathy. It is ultimately a paradox. The ghost no one sees. Presuming to define it in any sort of concrete terms becomes an exercise in pointlessly describing what it is not, and presuming to speak for it is to pretend to be what one is not.

"Anonymous" is many things, and nothing.

But perhaps the most important thing to know is this:

The real Anonymous is too busy swapping Rule 34's on 4chan to hack websites.





P.S. What about the lulz? It used to be about the lulz, man.

This is kind of a double edged sword, I think most people agree with the posted agenda and want to support them, but at what point does support become a limited liability partnership? Phase one calls for the posting of media on social networking and blog sites in an effort to spread awareness, if every site decides to exclude these posts they're dead in the water, but that will never happen.
The owners of ATS have invested time, money and sweat equity to develop a profitable and refreshingly civil forum, allowing it to become a community cork board is in the best interest of no one.
Sites like you tube, twitter, face book etc. are designed to spread a message in the hopes they go viral and attract more viewers. If they eventually crash and burn we here on ATS will discuss why and try to figure out who planned it. Everybody wins.

SkepticOverload raises an important point regarding the percieved actions of the Anon Group,
That is the 'certain elements' that are blurring the original intent of the movement.

You don't have to look far to see 'peaceful' demonstrations turn ugly when 'Agents Provocateurs'
mix in, cause trouble, and suddenly the riot police are out and swinging.

The internet is no different, but much easier for an agent provocateur to jump in and dis-rail a movement.

Originally posted by The Revenant
I am astounded by the lack of knowledge, understanding, and foresight about what 'Anonymous' actually is. Genuinely, I find it hard to believe that everyone here seems to be buying into falsehoods.

Anonymous has become less who they are as to what they've done. That tends to happen when cancer metastasizes.

3) Do NOT attempt to pigeon-hole or assess Anonymous. This is a warning ScepticOverlord, for the communities benefit - if you attempt to classify, define or delimit Anonymous in any way, you will inevitably raise the ire of a part of the Anon. This would be negative for all of us and our community.

That attitude is what is wrong with the whole Anonymous movement now. They've bought into their own propaganda. "Don't trivialize us or we'll throw a hissy!" Threatening SO and, by extension ATS, is probably not the best way to get your idea across if you want anyone to take Anonymous seriously.

I'm glad to see SO has the same reservations as myself and other adults. The original Anonymous group, when they were harassing Scientology, were amusing and, I think, a good thing. This new iteration is a bunch of thugs that have no concept of property rights, free speech, or privacy. They're cyber-terrorists.

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


Actually the original Anon were the bullies and kiddies, the new anon are the good cause. The rise against corporations.

Get your facts straight.

Underneath some of the "Anonymous" YouTube videos is a statement:

"Become a member and join us as we initiate a movement for real change."

Another Anonymous clip says:

WE ARE LEGION! It's time to take the power back! Spread the word, spread this message. Comment, Like, SHARE! Lets help ANONYMOUS HELP US!

Both clips were created for recruitment purposes.

(I am posting these without links, for the clips themselves are the advertisement.)

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I can see what you are trying to do, but its a bit frustrating. I had a thread removed a while ago because it linked to an online hacking magazine. How am I meant to reference my material if I cant link. The magazine had a good article on Anon and it was news worthy. Yes it had reference to hacking tools too, but a tool is a just a tool it is up to peeps how they use it. Well the google toolbar can be used for hacking. Will you ban links to google now you have that info...
You said that some threads have been removed because they link to recruitment sites. So does that mean no one can link to an anon site or an IRC because it is recruiting. If that is the case it is very unfair. Your reasoning that Anon is just a bunch of hackers is wrong. They work on many different levels and much of what they do falls in the remit of legal. There is much more than hacking and denial attacks.
Does that mean you can take any thread down that links to an Anon utube video, they all recruit too.. What are you left with, the stuff you read about Anon on mainstream news and that is very one sided and wrong
The first internet war... One of the biggest things to happen on the net in years cannot be reported objectively on an alternative internet news site. I think on this issue you have let your side down. Only my opinion, but that is the way I see it.

If someone could be so kind as to clarify what this means also it is stuck of an anon thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

19) Advertising: You will not advertise or promote other discussion boards, chat systems, online communities or other websites on the Websites within posts,

Does linking to a site mean you have promoted it. Does that mean you cannot link to IRC chats, facebook, twitter. These are all online communites. As far as I was aware the whole internet is an online communtity. So does that mean you can pull the plug on any topic you so wish..

If you think about this rationally, Anonymous also has a corporate logo. When one of their videos pops up online, the clip starts and ends with their brand. It contains a question mark, suit, and globe. Technically, Anonymous branded themselves as if they were a corporation. All their online advertising carries the logo.

The Honeymooners

Originally posted by Section31
What that means is that the video is designed for recruiting purposes.

Its an advertisement.

Indeed. They might just as well say "You too can become a poster child for cyber-terrorism, help bring others like you under government surveillance and frog-march proudly in and out of court buildings for the sake of public spectacle."

I mean seriously, does anyone believe for a moment that this sort of thing isn't a honeypot? Or if it isn't, that it isn't about to become one?

Why do the same people who rail about oppressive government carry on like it doesn't exist? Are they even listening to themselves? Will the evil, oppressive government they fight against, that reputedly monitors everything that happens online, somehow not take notice and devote an infinitesimal fraction of its absurdly abundant surveillance resources to put a collar on them?

Irony is not dead.

Online activism is a wonderful thing, and has already changed our increasingly global online society in positive ways. But to anyone reading this, please beware of strangers bearing gifts, handing out candy or trying to put you up to smashing a store window or wardriving with a laptop and a script kit for the "revolution".

Real revolution comes from within, not from misguided, wanton acts of juvenile imprudence.

Originally posted by Majic
Indeed. They might just as well say "You too can become a poster child for cyber-terrorism, help bring others like you under government surveillance and frog-march proudly in and out of court buildings for the sake of public spectacle."

Lol...

Everything about Anonymous wreaks of deception.

Corporate identity, corporate press releases, corporate advertisements, etc...

Its crazy.

Originally posted by Majic
Online activism is a wonderful thing, and has already changed our increasingly global online society in positive ways. But to anyone reading this, please beware of strangers bearing gifts, handing out candy or trying to put you up to smashing a store window or wardriving with a laptop and a script kit for the "revolution".

Lol... Words of truth man. Words of truth.

Who is to say that Anonymous is not being manipulated by Saudi Arabia, Al-Qaeda, MSNBC, Michael More, Democrats, Republicans, China, Fox, etc...

People are easily manipulate if you play upon their anger.

Originally posted by The Revenant
1) Anonymous isn't a movement. It is an online form of the 'Black Bloc', a tactic for hiding oneself amongst many who are like you, but not, in order to perpetrate potentially illegal acts of civil disobedience and fringe 'technical criminality'. The simple fact that you are part of the 'Anon' group at that given time gives you the protection and fellowship of the 'Anon'.

Oh, behave yourself !

What online form of ''Black bloc'' would bully and humiliate an 11-year-old girl to the point of suicide ? What one of those obnoxious little Anonykids was responsible for flooding an epilepsy forum with flashing images ?

That's Anonymous: an amoral - usually immoral - collective of geeks, nerds and other social delinquents.

If any timid, slavish character actually aligns themselves to ''Anonymous'', then you only have yourself to blame when it all goes pear-shaped in the not to distant future.

reply to post by CitizenNum287119327


Alright Alright now calm it down everybody things are startin to make a lot of sense around here between you and Silent Thunder as to whats REALLY going on, and I have to say SO WHAT if they are taking down information......last night my laptop turned on by itself and downloaded my flash drive, yes it was strange and I do feel like I have been invaded and watched ever since I came here but honestly I don't care. I'm an American citizen and YES I will fight if you try to trample on my rights as a human.

Let me get this straight there is somebody named Anonymous out there but nobody knows who he/she is? But wait theres more.........to top it all off now all kinds of people are claiming to be anonymous and ATS want no part in it???? Whatever the crimes that Anonymous has done it doesn't matter because he,she,it does not speak for the people and thats all there is to it...........people don't have the luxury of being that niave anymore or there gonna end up on some crusade fighting for a cause they know nothing about and becoming a martyr.

Not me I say......its gonna be a cold day in hell before I sign up for any of that. Actually I think people can and will start having more compassion for their neighbors and start helping more amongst their communities. Learning how to better themselves and others because I have a lot more hope for the future and its unlimited possibilties. Tired of all this DOOM and GLOOM B.S.

I am understanding now why some of the T & C Violations are in place to help protect the integrity of the place so those points are noted and I will do my best and uphold them for as long as I am here.