Roswell debris tested - - Not from Earth

reply to post by justwokeup
I don't know... Miners looking for magnesium happen to cut into the debris of a crashed meteor with the odd isotope ratio version of magnesium in it. This gets mixed into 'building materials'; some kind of mostly aluminum foil. Bits of this deteriorate and get blown onto the Roswell site, and then, recently, discovered. It seems that if meteoric derived metals were distributed this way, it would have frequently been noticed to skew the normal isotope ratios on Earth. Apparently, these are actually fairly consistent; and are expected to vary much less than this. Ross

reply to post by Ross 54


Yes, i'll admit that sounds a bit thin....

The worry here is you get hard evidence of something unusual and no way to differentiate between multiple unlikely options of why?

People who are already believers will rally to the flag and those who don't will take the 'big co-incidence' option described in your post above.

I'm not sure where we go with it.

Completely deleted my original post (and my original thoughts in the post).

My Completely edited post, with changed thoughts, is below. sorry

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Looks like melted cookware to me...any flapjack residue apparent?

Don't know... its still on the way... I have to trust a crazy Canuck that it really is a meteorite

Only in Newfoundland

Originally posted by Thestargateisreal
p.s. Even if Aluminum was in a meteorite it has such a low melting point that any of it present would be melted before it ever touched the earth.

Meteorites from the Moon contain aluminum/calcium mix
meteorites.wustl.edu...

A Bit of Trivia

Sudbury Ontario Canada.

It is one of Canada's (and the world's) biggest producer of Nickel and Cobalt. Well it turns out that the huge Sudbury Basin is in fact an impact crater... They were effectively mining the asteroid It wasn't until 1070ish that they even figured out it was an impact basin

The Sudbury Basin, also known as Sudbury Structure or the Sudbury Nickel Irruptive, is a major geologic structure in Ontario, Canada. It is the second-largest known impact crater or astrobleme on Earth, as well as one of the oldest

Even as late as the mid-1970s, geologists were not fully certain of the Sudbury basin having meteor origins. The educational television programme "Planet of Man"—created for Canadian universities to use in introductory geology classes—mooted the possible volcanic origins of the Sudbury geological structures [1]. Considering how old the evidence is for a meteor impact, some 1.8 billions of years of weathering and other geological processes made it difficult to prove with 1970s era technology that a meteor was the cause of the Sudbury geological structures. Since then an ash and conglomerate layer has been found associated with the impact event and stressed rock formations have been fully mapped. The cause of the ongoing difficulty with proof of the meteor event was that the region was volcanically active around the same time as the impact—and some weathered volcanic structures can look like meteor collision structures given the right conditions.

en.wikipedia.org...

BIG hole



From Space

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Dr Roger Leir supposedly has a piece of the original object. .. or so he claims... we need to get that to an independent lab

Originally posted by Ross 54
,,, It seems that if meteoric derived metals were distributed this way, it would have frequently been noticed to skew the normal isotope ratios on Earth. Apparently, these are actually fairly consistent; and are expected to vary much less than this.

I don't know...that's why I asked if it is likely, or even possible.

This seems to be the data in question:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7660029aac46.jpg[/atsimg]table excerpted from the OP's article

The argument for this sample not being manufactured on earth is that the ratio of 26Mg to 24Mg seems to be greater than expected -- i.e. greater than what is found in nature (or the "Abundance - Observed" versus the "Abundance - Natural").

26Mg is supposed to occur naturally in a ratio of 11.3% of 26Mg and 78.6% of 24Mg. However, the sample tested was 10.8% of 26Mg and 79.1% of 24Mg. It seems that the author of the article in the OP was saying that this overabundance of 26Mg when compared to what is expected in nature is the evidence that this aluminum was not manufactured on Earth.

...HOWEVER, there was also a stated statistical error of +/- 0.5%. The "Abundance - Observed" of the sample tested was within that +/- 0.5% range of error when compared to the "Abundance - Natural".

Unless I'm missing something here, I don't see a smoking gun that tells me that the ratio in the sample had extraordinarily too much 26Mg in it.

By the way, this testing lab states that the natural abundance ratio of 24Mg is 78.6% and 26Mg is 11.3%. However, a source I found states the natural ratio is:

78.99% 24Mg to 11.10% of 26Mg, along with 10.00% of 25Mg
(source = Berkeley Laboratory Isotope Project)

and another source that has the natural occurring ratios at:
78.7% of 24Mg to 11.17% of 26Mg, along with 10.13% of 25Mg
(source = Oak Ridge National Laboratory)

...both of these sources show the ratio in the sample to be even closer to the ratio occurring in nature, and both -- along with the natural abundance stated in the article -- are within the stated error of the test in the OP's article.

Again, if I'm reading this information right (although I'm not an expert), it seems to me that this ratio of the Mg isotopes in the sample is normal (at least within range of the error of the testing). If I'm not reading this right, can someone set me straight?

Here is the story of the metal piece...

On the alledged crash site in Aurora, Texas in1897 they found a piece of manufactured Aluminium as well. l don't understand enough about metals to say if the anomalies they found in it are of the same nature in both cases, though.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
I'd hate to have as good a story as this spoiled by an ugly little fact but in the interest of being as objective as possible, let's look at the figures - - The range of error puts Mg 24 at from 78.6 to 79.6 % If 78.6 % is the norm, the test result extend from that norm to considerably higher. If each value in that range is equally probable of being the correct figure, there is a much better chance that it falls somewhere above the norm than right at it. Mg 25 range - 9.5 to 10.6% straddles the norm of 10.1% . Mg 26 range - 10.3 to 11.3, as against the norm 11.3. The reverse situation of Mg 24, all the possible values are at or below the norm. The probability is that the true figure is lower than the norm, somewhere between 10.3 and 11.2, rather that right at the norm at the very upper edge of the possible range of results. So it seems probable that magnesium 24 is more plentiful than expected and magnesium 26 less than expected. I'm not a metallurgist, chemist, or physicist but this appears to be the basis of the claim about unusual isotopic ratios, assuming there are no mistakes in my arithmetic!

reply to post by gnostician


The "Aurora" case has been proven to be a hoax IIRC.

reply to post by Turiddu

Do you have watched the video and seen all of the traces they have found there? Not saying it is "evidence" of a crash but what they have found is quite interesting.

Thats amazing!

If there weren't any mistakes in the test anyways.

There is one thing that bothers me though.
Let's assume for a moment that an alien craft did crash near Roswell. Let's assume the government took the craft and attempted to cover the whole thing up.
Would they really allow an ordinary guy with a metal detector to walk up and find more debris? Wouldn't they have some sort of security system to stop this? I understand that it would be extreamly hard to make sure every scrap of debris was removed. But wouldn't they close the whole area off or something?

Never the less, it appears they did not, and they will pay for it!
More evidence that aliens are here!

reply to post by Ross 54


Oops -- I meant an underabundance of isotope 26^Mg rather than an overabundance.
However, the point I'm making is that this test was by no means a "slam-dunk" in favor of showing that the sample was not Earthly in origin.

As I indicated in my post above, it seems that taking into account the margin of error, the test of the sample was NOT conclusive. The sample could very well have been aluminum manufactured here on Earth.

Well, a little research goes a long way.

Unless you want to believe it was from a UFO in the first place...

From the OP's article............................ This article is biased.................And therefore untrust worthy.....

What he found was a silvery metal that looked aluminum. This was strange because there were no indications of any sort of aluminum objects in the area.

Same paragraph.

He also found some aluminum buttons that appear to be the type used on military fatigues in the later 40’s. If that is the case it demonstrates that the military was in the area.

I am confused!...Someone already posted about some conflicting information.


Here is the list of alloys found in the sample.

It turned out to be an aluminum, silicon, manganese, copper alloy.

This is just some information on aluminum alloys.

Aluminum alloys are a mixture of aluminum and a variety of other metals. Different metals, when added to the base aluminum impart enhanced properties to the aluminum, such as enhanced corrosion resistance, better formability, greater strength, and/or other beneficial properties, in a wide range of permutations and combinations.
There are dozens of aluminum alloys in fairly common use in the US , and countless others overseas.

The alloying elements include silicone, manganese, magnesium, copper, zinc, nickel chromium, and titanium. In a few instances, one can find the use of lead, bismuth, vanadium, chromium, zirconium, iron, and/or boron. Each will change not only the various properties of the aluminum compound, but its density, as well.
---------------------------------------


The 2000 Series of alloys:


The 2000 series of alloys are a set of “hard alloys”. They are probably most commonly used in aircraft and military types of applications. Other 2000 series uses include sheet and plate, armor plate, wire, rod, bar, extrusions, tube, and forgings.

Copper is the primary alloying element of this group, but many contain noticeable quantities of silicone, manganese, magnesium, nickel, and/or titanium.

They tend towards high strength, but require solution heat treating to achieve their maximum properties and/or artificial aging. After heat treating, they may approach the properties of mild steel. Good machinability is a benefit offered in this series, but it doesn’t offer the best of corrosion resistance. 2024 is probably the widest used and best known aircraft alloy.

www.thealuminumsource.com...

The 2000 series is the best for aircraft. But aluminum can be alloyed to the specific need for the use.

Here is the "list" of alloys found.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1b29bee74d77.jpg[/atsimg]

As you can see, every element found in the sample (that I can tell) can be an alloying element of aluminum.

What the guy most likely found was from a military aircraft. This means only one thing. If this did come from the Roswell crash, well....you can figure it out.

Alien?????? Why even bring it up......Unless you have an agenda to proove, "aliens." Which I think this guy is dead set on the alien space craft idea.

I personally believe this is some military hardware remnants.

ETA: If any info is wrong please correct me. I threw this together real fast before dinner. I know this will not be a popular post here, but.....Oh well......

In reply to Soylent Green -- We shall see, and maybe with not too long a time to wait. If Robert Bigelow is still funding the proceedings, he can certainly afford to have the work done wherever it can be done quickly. He's been intent on getting at the facts behind UFOs for years, I believe. He may well see this as his best chance, given the evidence in hand, the scientific approach, and interesting preliminary data.

liejunkie01 - that graph only covers individual elements, not isotopes, which is what we are looking at in this case.

The reason the sample is an outlier is that the ratio of *percentages* is off. The sample had 24^Mg isotope levels on the high side of normal, and 26^Mg levels on the very low side of normal. Yes, they are both within the normal levels and neither data point is itself an outlier. However, the ratio of 24^Mg:26^Mg is a derivative value which has different limits on normal values. The fact that 2$^Mg was high isn't that big of a deal. The fact that 26^Mg was low isn't that big of a deal. What matters is that one is high AND the other is low. If they were both high, then the ratio would still be within acceptable, terrestrial limits.

Hope that makes sense. I haven't thought stats in a while.

edit: Regardless, just those numbers are great, but there is no P-value. This would be great so that we can understand the statistical significance of the confidence/error limits.

reply to post by Ross 54


I'm guessing the lie We have been told since 1947 is about to be busted wide open.

S&F!!!

reply to post by liejunkie01
Believe I raised this point before, but realize that not everyone has time to read the entire thread: That this alloy is somewhat similar to Earthly ones is not of the essence. This neither proves nor disproves any theory about where it originated. It is perfectly possible that aluminum alloys from other worlds resemble our own, in a general way. The isotope ratio tests are the only reliable basis so far considered for assigning it an Earthly, or non Earthly origin. Ross