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How The Bush Tax Cuts Blew Up The Deficit And Debt

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posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mudbeed
 

If we reduce spending, NO-ONE would have to pay more.



A lot of our spending on black-ops, Military etc our congress hands down signs it right off.

Spending is an issue on both sides.

And yes, perhaps you are right about that, but I don't see that happening.


Bull-dooky.
Most of our spending is on etitlement programs.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
The two single biggest shames here:

1. that US Citizens being allowed to keep more of their own money is seen as a "mistake".

2. that 100% of the blame is not put on spending, primarily in military endeavors, and imprisonment.

Is there really anyone left out there who believes that the US stands for anything even remotely related to "freedom"? No, i don't hate my country. I hate its government. And I am starting to dislike the stupidity that is rampant among the populace.


Well what about a US Company that has about 5 employees in the states (at the headquarters) and about 1000-2000 people in india working for it, getting huge tax breaks because loopholes exist?

Would you consider that a shame or a mistake?



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mudbeed
 

If we reduce spending, NO-ONE would have to pay more.



A lot of our spending on black-ops, Military etc our congress hands down signs it right off.

Spending is an issue on both sides.

And yes, perhaps you are right about that, but I don't see that happening.


Bull-dooky.
Most of our spending is on etitlement programs.


Which both sides gladly sign off on.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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Hmm what does Bill O’Reilly think?



Conservative talk show host Bill O’Reilly said Tuesday night that Republicans must accept “revenue increases” for the government by way of tax hikes, specifically coming out in favor of a 1 percent national sales tax to help fix the U.S. budget.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by mudbeed
 

That doesn't justify it. T'is why I'm not a republican. Just an uber-conservatve Indy.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
The two single biggest shames here:

1. that US Citizens being allowed to keep more of their own money is seen as a "mistake".

2. that 100% of the blame is not put on spending, primarily in military endeavors, and imprisonment.

Is there really anyone left out there who believes that the US stands for anything even remotely related to "freedom"? No, i don't hate my country. I hate its government. And I am starting to dislike the stupidity that is rampant among the populace.


Well what about a US Company that has about 5 employees in the states (at the headquarters) and about 1000-2000 people in india working for it, getting huge tax breaks because loopholes exist?

Would you consider that a shame or a mistake?

If we want to compete with the rest of hte world, we need to stop regulating companies into the ground. The answer here isn't to bring our companies home and force htem to stay here. It's to make our laws and regulations competitive with the rest of the world. Isolation doesn't work. We cannot pretend the rest of the world is secondary. This is a global society now so we have to be realistic to stay alive. I guarantee you that reducing the grip government has on companies will bring us a tsunami of jobs and the belly aching about illegal immigrants and offshoring will end.
edit on 13-7-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by mudbeed

Hmm what does Bill O’Reilly think?



Conservative talk show host Bill O’Reilly said Tuesday night that Republicans must accept “revenue increases” for the government by way of tax hikes, specifically coming out in favor of a 1 percent national sales tax to help fix the U.S. budget.

Who cares. Want me to quote Limbaugh next?



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by jonnywhite
[If we want to compete with the rest of hte world, we need to stop regulating companies into the ground. The answer here isn't to bring our companies home and force htem to stay here. It's to make our laws and regulations competitive with the rest of the world. Isolation doesn't work. We cannot pretend the rest of the world is secondary. This is a global society now so we have to be realistic to stay alive.


Sorry but that is a talking point myth.

There is a difference between legitimate regulation and having no regulations.

Hell, deregulations of the banks is what practically caused this mess to begin with.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by jonnywhite
[If we want to compete with the rest of hte world, we need to stop regulating companies into the ground. The answer here isn't to bring our companies home and force htem to stay here. It's to make our laws and regulations competitive with the rest of the world. Isolation doesn't work. We cannot pretend the rest of the world is secondary. This is a global society now so we have to be realistic to stay alive.


Sorry but that is a talking point myth.

There is a difference between legitimate regulation and having no regulations.

Hell, deregulations of the banks is what practically caused this mess to begin with.


Nope. Having Barney Frank and the dems strong-arm banks for a social agenda caused this mess.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by jonnywhite
[If we want to compete with the rest of hte world, we need to stop regulating companies into the ground. The answer here isn't to bring our companies home and force htem to stay here. It's to make our laws and regulations competitive with the rest of the world. Isolation doesn't work. We cannot pretend the rest of the world is secondary. This is a global society now so we have to be realistic to stay alive.


Sorry but that is a talking point myth.

There is a difference between legitimate regulation and having no regulations.

Hell, deregulations of the banks is what practically caused this mess to begin with.

Ya, I recall. Congress wanted lower income to be able to afford homes. So is it the deregulation that did it or was it the goverment bullwhipping its way into business matters and interrupting the flow of things? You know of course that LENDERS DIDN'T WANT TO LEND TO THEM. So forcing them is actually regulating them, not deregulating them. Anyway....

I'm sure that big taxes on businesses is good for them. Err, I hope it's. I mean, they're the reason people have jobs in the first place, right? Since taxing creates jobs, we should tax them? Err, maybe we got our priorities backwards. We're taxing the people AND the business the work for? Somebody got something up their sleeve and it ain't an ace of spades.

The problem with regulation is that a lot of the times it's not about the common good it's about dumb blowhards that know nothing about business being a general nuisance and goose stepping their way through the process and then running with a mad passion for the hills. And then having to go through a mile thick pile of papers to figure anything our or appeal it or change it in some positive way. Bottom line, government is so filled wiht red tape that nothing gets done. It's a horrible way to run the economy. People who fall for this idea that regulation is somehow good for us watch TV or something too much. Reality tells a whole different story.
edit on 13-7-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mudbeed
 

That doesn't justify it. T'is why I'm not a republican. Just an uber-conservatve Indy.



Well I am a leaning left indy.

Not even super-leaning.

One way to look at it is this.

Why are companies not hiring?

Manufacturing and supplies, etc are some of the largest employers in this country to date. Whether it is general mills, or pepsi (for example) they hire people based on manufacturing and the like.

If momma joe does not have 5 bucks for her Pepsi, then who is hurting? Well mama joe and pepsi.

Companies are not going to hire if there is zero demand.

The lower and middle class support and make the wealthy who in turn hire them. Not the other way around.

Once the lower and middle class do well, they invest. They invest in 401k, stocks...food...etc all which helps round out our dollar. In turn they create jobs by creating demand through their purchases.

There is no one reason that we are in the position we are in, but you can at least look at the mistakes Bush made that help cause a lot of our issues.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mudbeed

Hmm what does Bill O’Reilly think?



Conservative talk show host Bill O’Reilly said Tuesday night that Republicans must accept “revenue increases” for the government by way of tax hikes, specifically coming out in favor of a 1 percent national sales tax to help fix the U.S. budget.

Who cares. Want me to quote Limbaugh next?


Limbaugh is a liar and O'Reily is really good at speaking it like he sees it.

Limbaugh doesn't agree with anything. Just like I wouldn't quote Olberman or any other super lib. They are too biased.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by jonnywhite
[If we want to compete with the rest of hte world, we need to stop regulating companies into the ground. The answer here isn't to bring our companies home and force htem to stay here. It's to make our laws and regulations competitive with the rest of the world. Isolation doesn't work. We cannot pretend the rest of the world is secondary. This is a global society now so we have to be realistic to stay alive.


Sorry but that is a talking point myth.

There is a difference between legitimate regulation and having no regulations.

Hell, deregulations of the banks is what practically caused this mess to begin with.


Nope. Having Barney Frank and the dems strong-arm banks for a social agenda caused this mess.


Thats untrue. There was a conservative bill That Clinton signed off on (to keep the government from shutting down) that is what caused this mess.

A dem signed a bill into office that caused this mess.

EDIT: Notice how I blame Clinton...Oooh am I honest or am I just another Lib-tard rooting for a party?
edit on 13-7-2011 by mudbeed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mudbeed
 

That doesn't justify it. T'is why I'm not a republican. Just an uber-conservatve Indy.



Well I am a leaning left indy.

Not even super-leaning.

One way to look at it is this.

Why are companies not hiring?

Manufacturing and supplies, etc are some of the largest employers in this country to date. Whether it is general mills, or pepsi (for example) they hire people based on manufacturing and the like.

If momma joe does not have 5 bucks for her Pepsi, then who is hurting? Well mama joe and pepsi.

Companies are not going to hire if there is zero demand.

The lower and middle class support and make the wealthy who in turn hire them. Not the other way around.

Once the lower and middle class do well, they invest. They invest in 401k, stocks...food...etc all which helps round out our dollar. In turn they create jobs by creating demand through their purchases.

There is no one reason that we are in the position we are in, but you can at least look at the mistakes Bush made that help cause a lot of our issues.

Obamas' Healthcare "Law" has scared too many companies. The costs the fines, the penalties, all inflicted on private businesses for theske of "free healtcare".
Obama administrations leanings towards tax inreases.

There are two reasons why companies aren't hiring. It's not about tax cuts. It's about government intervention.
edit on 13-7-2011 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by mudbeed

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mudbeed
 

That doesn't justify it. T'is why I'm not a republican. Just an uber-conservatve Indy.



Well I am a leaning left indy.

Not even super-leaning.

One way to look at it is this.

Why are companies not hiring?

Manufacturing and supplies, etc are some of the largest employers in this country to date. Whether it is general mills, or pepsi (for example) they hire people based on manufacturing and the like.

If momma joe does not have 5 bucks for her Pepsi, then who is hurting? Well mama joe and pepsi.

Companies are not going to hire if there is zero demand.

The lower and middle class support and make the wealthy who in turn hire them. Not the other way around.

Once the lower and middle class do well, they invest. They invest in 401k, stocks...food...etc all which helps round out our dollar. In turn they create jobs by creating demand through their purchases.

There is no one reason that we are in the position we are in, but you can at least look at the mistakes Bush made that help cause a lot of our issues.

Obamas' Healthcare "Law" has scared too many companies. The costs the fines, the penalties, all inflicted on private businesses for theske of "free healtcare".
Obama administrations leanings towards tax inreases.

There are two reasons why companies aren't hiring. It's not about tax cuts. It's about government intervention.
edit on 13-7-2011 by beezzer because: (no reason given)


You know what that is a myth too.

I know because I work at one of the largest companies in MN.

My CEO discussed this very topic because people were asking.

He straight up told his investors that this was a Party talking point and analysts and our CFO completely dismisses this as false.

He is a republican, BTW



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by mudbeed
 

I see so much of this meme of how tax cuts are evil. Sorry, ain't buying it. Having more of MY money is good.


Have you given this a thought beyond, "I want more money, more money good?"

Seriously, stop thinking with your gut and start thinking with your head. The economy is in a meltdown. Have you even looked at the US budget, or do you just like talking points? Your silly partisan nonsense is destroying this country AND RUINING MY MONEY!!!

Look at this...
en.wikipedia.org...

1.4 Trillion in deficit in 2010, and it only gets worse with each year. If you look at the numbers, and take an honest moment to use your brain (not your gut) and distance yourself from your own silly party loyalty and affiliation, you will see that absolutely drastic spending cuts have to be combined with tax increases to even get the budget anywhere near a surplus. For some reason this is never mentioned. Idiots on one side only want tax increases, idiots on the other side only want spending decreases, and idiots on the sidelines simply say, "destroy the FED." Nobody wants to do what needs to be done, and I think THAT is the conspiracy. Everyone is told what to think from one of three groups (the third being the "alternative, conspiracy" group) and the real answer isn't even thought about.

And you know what all of this bickering is going to do? It's going to destroy the currency so we'll all be dirt poor and at the mercy of the billionaires (of course the hyperinflation will have reduced them to the equivalent of hundred-thousandaires).

Do you like government cheese?

Ever been on food stamps?

The wars must stop, the entitlements must be rolled back, and taxes have to increase. At this point any arguing to the contrary is ideological claptrap that is ultimately going to hurt everybody.

But whatever, you go on arguing about how, "teh gubment tryna take mah moniez!!1!" so you can have lots extra to wipe you bum-bum with when it's worthless.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Sunsetspawn
Ever been on food stamps?


Yup, my family used Wic and food stamps after going bankrupt in the job and housing crisis in the mid 80s.

My Mom went to school using gov programs and they were able to clean their debt and get on their feet after about 4-5 of hard work.

Infact most people on these programs do not abuse the system and anything that says otherwise is just another talking point BS myth.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Sunsetspawn
 

Er. . . so. . . um. . give them YOUR money.
I'm cool with that.

I'm smarter thn the government, though. I can spend my money better than they can spend theirs.

(I don't have a deficit, I have a surplus)




posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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Ok guys, I think we are running in circles but it as been a lot of fun discussing these things with you guys.

So you know I respect all of you. I have a point of view and you have yours. I honestly agree with both parties on a lot of things.

Economy is not one of them, but oh well.

You guys take care I wanna go get some lunch.

May we meet eachother in a non political thread some day to see where we actually think alike, rather than spending a hald a day discussing our differences.



posted on Jul, 13 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Right now, I have two kids under 4, and my wife and I Both have strep throat. But hey, I'm in the bathroom, so here it goes: gwb=tax cuts for all. Why? To create jobs. I dont have the time to pour through YouTube for vids, but you have to know where I'm going with this by now. Exactly how many jobs did those bush tax cuts create? Thought so.




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