'Sister Wives': Polygamy law challenge called demand for equality

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posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by daggyz
 



Are you kidding? So people appear normal on the outside to hide whats in the inside and that regarded as persecution. So the name sleeping with his daughter appears normal and he regards it as his right t have sex with her.. and thats persecution.

Remember it s all about the individuals perception. If enough people rallied agianst incest, eventually it would become legal.

We are a sick species.


You are equating all those who practice the principle with sexual deviants, this is simply not true. There is a huge difference between pedophilia and polygamy, yes men did marry girls who were between the ages of 14 and 18 back in the early years of the church but marrying a girl who was young was not a rare practice in almost any social circle before the 20th century. If you look at honest practicing polygamists in today's world, none of them would ever marry a women under the age of 18.

There is no doctrine within Mormonism which approves of incest. The only thing that can be used to defend incest by any religion are old testament stories such as Lot and his daughters. But that point is moot due to early church doctrine which has always taught that incest was a sin. So any Mormon who practices incest, is in turn not Mormon.

We as a society have discovered that marrying young is a bad idea. That it opens up young adults to exploitation, and hinders them from perusing an education and other forms of personal progress. But again child marriages are rare within the Mormon polygamy circles, and the ones who do practice it are looked down upon by all the others.

This is not an issue of sexual morality (sexual morality the majority of Mormon communities LDS or not are very very high). It is an issue of religious freedom. The freedom to practice a belief that they choose to follow not are forced to follow.

edit on 14-7-2011 by Openeye because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by wildoracle13
Deny ignorance.


Yes. Deny ignorance.

Having been Mormon - - - I've experienced a lot and I do mean a lot - - of ignorance about Mormons.

People really do need to educate themselves before mouthing off.

Hopefully - you can back up your argument with Real - Providable Facts.
edit on 14-7-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)


Depression: utah depression

Suicide: Utah

Prescription drugs: Utah

I am sure you will find a way to discredit the sources. I am not interested. You have stated that you don't believe in statistics due to motive of said study, who paid for it and all that. I tried to find reasonably credible sources for you, not mormonhaters.com or crazyldsers.org or anything like that. I don't want to argue about the credibility of the faith. I have my opinion and you have yours. Mormons won't ever accept polygamy as legal. Atleast the "official" ones we speak of.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by wildoracle13
 


You are completely right.

All the statistics you have posted are legit (despite some inaccuracies).

I am not a fan of the LDS church but I do respect the people who practice the faith. The church has created a dogma which alienates anyone with opposing views (i.e. Homosexuals, polygamists, progressives.). Even anyone who is in the church who interprets doctrine differently then the general authorities is stigmatized.

I grew up in a fairly liberal ward in the church, where questions were met with intellectual conversation rather than quick snaps of "thats not what the prophet says!".

The church requires people to be more than they can, despite them preaching that people are not perfect.

But I think the issues in Utah which you bring up are caused by the church's dogma and political positions. Not by the practitioners of polygamy.



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by wildoracle13

I am sure you will find a way to discredit the sources. I am not interested. You have stated that you don't believe in statistics due to motive of said study, who paid for it and all that. I tried to find reasonably credible sources for you, not mormonhaters.com or crazyldsers.org or anything like that. I don't want to argue about the credibility of the faith. I have my opinion and you have yours. Mormons won't ever accept polygamy as legal. At least the "official" ones we speak of.


Did I state I did not believe statistics? Statistics have a purpose. They are a tool.

However - the person(s) gathering statistical information do have an agenda.

The CWLA is a coalition. They apparently gather statistics from outside sources. Abused or neglected covers a very wide range. I couldn't find any specifics of geographic location - - Northern or Southern - - rural or city. Interesting note - - the State of Washington is #1 for newborn infant mortality.

Anyway - - - every other resource I found - put Utah somewhere in the middle for child welfare.

I have my opinion on Mormons because I was one.

You still haven't said you have any real knowledge of being Mormon.





edit on 14-7-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Openeye
I grew up in a fairly liberal ward in the church, where questions were met with intellectual conversation rather than quick snaps of "that's not what the prophet says!".



That was my experience too. I'm sure being Mormon near the temple in Utah is probably a more intense experience.

My hubby who was raised Mormon - - officially resigned because of their political involvement in Prop8.

His teachings were always that Mormon's offer help or information - - - but it is against belief to interfere or tell others how to live their lives.

He said this new generation of Power Political Mormon Leadership - - - he wants nothing to do with - - - and its against everything he was taught.

They ARE trying to side with the Christian Right Political force. Its going to be the downfall of all of them.

I think many people are getting really tired of the "Christian Push".



posted on Jul, 14 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by JohnnyElohim
 


You're so far off the mark, that it's not worth a full reply, LOL!

I'll give you this much: I never mentioned IQ... you did.

The rest, I'll leave up to you to ponder where the fallacies lie.
edit on 13-7-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)


I couldn't resist pointing out: nice hand-waving!



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by SirMike
 


Holy crap! If I thought for a second that I could live in a house like that, have built in baby-sitters, go get a job if I felt like it and only occasionally have sex with my husband, I would do it in a HEARTBEAT!!!! I think there's a lot of assumption that a one-man, one-woman marriage is SO much better than anything else out there. Whatever. The Brown family looks like a very happy, loving environment. The kids all have full bellies, nice clothes, wonderful moms that clearly care for their children and are attentive to their needs. I think it's very nice. At first I kind of thought "yuck", but I've also seen too many crack/meth moms who are cooking drugs in the same trailer that their kids are in that I think the Brown family is perfectly fine. I don't care how many kids they have, if that guy can feed them and their bills are paid, more power to them.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


You sound more like a libertarian. Just saying


OT: I don't care, whatever 6-8 consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom... Wait a minuet I already gave this speech in a thread about gay marriage. Anyways, if they love each other or whatever and want to say their married, then who cares?

Hey has anyone seen that movie(I think its a movie) called paint my wagon? Where the two guys marry one girl? Now that was progressive.



posted on Oct, 27 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by Mcupobob
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


You sound more like a libertarian. Just saying


OT: I don't care, whatever 6-8 consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom... Wait a minuet I already gave this speech in a thread about gay marriage. Anyways, if they love each other or whatever and want to say their married, then who cares?

Hey has anyone seen that movie(I think its a movie) called paint my wagon? Where the two guys marry one girl? Now that was progressive.


Love the movie.

But actually - - I'd say Polyamory marriage is progressive. (or polyamorous marriage) That's any multiple combination.



posted on Oct, 28 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Polygamy is abuse of women and children. Its not progressive rather its obscenity.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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www.acluutah.org...


According to Utah’s bigamy statute, “A person is guilty of bigamy when, knowing he has a husband or wife, the person purports to marry another person or cohabits with another person.” Utah Code Ann. § 76-7-101(1) (2003). The law, therefore, applies not just to individuals who have obtained multiple marriage licenses, but also to those who are legally married to only one person, while also engaging in other marriage-like relationships that are not recognized by the state.


co·hab·it
intr.v. co·hab·it·ed, co·hab·it·ing, co·hab·its
1. To live together in a sexual relationship, especially when not legally married.

The Law in Utah is a direct violation of constitutional rights to practice religious freedom.

I know plenty of people that are still "legally" married that have not gotten a "legal" divorce and who are cohabitating with persons other than their "legal" spouse.(and I imagine most people do)

The only reason it is an issue at all in Utah is because of the LDS church and the stigma that it has brought in the past.

Now with that said, I believe any person has the right to cohabit with as many people they wish to and it's nobodies business but their own and the other participants in their relationship.



posted on Oct, 30 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by SirMike

'Sister Wives': Polygamy law challenge called demand for equality


www.sltrib.com

Utah’s complicated history with polygamy will start a new chapter Wednesday when an attorney for a reality-show family files a lawsuit that could send the state’s ban on plural marriage to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Nationally-known constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley said the lawsuit to be filed in U.S. District Court in Salt Lake City will not call for plural marriages to be recognized by the state. Instead, it asks for polygamy between consenting adults like his clients, former Utahn Kody Brown and his wives, to no longer be considered a crime.

(visit the link for the full news article)



Well to be married is to be damned, so why not allow as many who wish that upon themselves do so?

I will never understand why so many beg for state sanctioning of their relations. Do you really NEED that approval?

I have a mate whom I love dearly and do not need that sanctioned by anyone other than her heart. Why contract that love when it is more noble to strive to prove it everyday?

Sheesh people, why beg the state for a damn thing?

Get them out of the marriage business altogether.

With Love,

Your Brother





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