A question for the conservatives on ATS

(Man I haven;t done a thread in a while. I wonder if I still have it?)

So I listen to alot of radio and the discussion centered on the state of the economy and what to do to help the struggling American economy. It was mentioned that our nations infrastructure is in bad shape (to be nice) and that we should spend money to fix it. I have heard this from my Uncle who is an independent/conservative (who weirdly voted for Obama thats a different story)

So this is simple and short and to the point.I know that this is something that is polar opposite in what are ideology says governement spending but should it be done? Conservatives could you support a stimulus package or large amounts of spending solely on out failing infrastructure that at least in my conservative opinion needs to be helpped and rebuilt. Could this also be the kill 2 birds with one stone thing , that may help with job creation? I know I know the republican line of well government can;t create jobs! Well fine the question still stands conservatives could you support mass spending on the nations infarastructure?

What say you my country men??

At this point, no. We are in too deep and need to start digging out. I would support it only if $1.50 IN REAL CUTS was implemented for every dollar spent on infrastructure. To be honest though, I would expect it all to go down the pork barrel rabbit hole.

posing a question for conservatives on ATS is like posing a question for satanists in a christian church. You are on the wrong site to ask a question directed to that audience and expect a fair and conclusive answer

I am, in some things, considered a conservative. But it truly breaks my heart to see how, in my humble opinion, the conservative powers to be have rewritten their playbook. War under republican president? Of course, and if you question its necessity and wisdom you are decidely Unamerican. Deficit under these conditions? Vote to increase without constraint - repeatedly. Now that the "other" party is in the White House, whole different story. I blame BOTH parties for leaving their common countrymen out to dry. But I don't see anything in the Republican's actions that indicate they have any incentive, based on their priorities, to fix anything at this point. They seem more interested in either claiming complete ideological victory without compromise, or seeing all hell break out and being the finger pointing the blame at the other side to secure their victory in the next election cycle.

I don't think my grandchildren will have a country to inherit unless the masses unite in some sort of "Fed Up" party which is interested in solving our problems, not remaining in power for powers sake.

S&F to the OP for being willing to discuss an idea outside of their political affiliation's talking points!

Because unlike Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) of the 30's, which I think is the last time they tried it, they would want all the workers to be unionized, paid big bucks and specialized jobs like ditch digger can't pour cement.

There is only one option left. Revolution.

As long as profit is the only motivation we are doomed.

Infrastructure is a requirement of our alleged advanced society.

There is no room for discussion about the need. It is like water, food and shelter.

Government is failing everywhere, along with modern money mechanics. Time for something new.

Peace

reply to post by American-philosopher


I would classify myself as an independent than a conservative. However, fiscally, I tend to lean more strongly towards more conservative philosophies.

Infrastructure is a problem, everything from roads, dams, bridges, to sewer systems et al are all badly in need of repair. I do believe that money should be spent on repairing these as their failure often results in loss of lives, property, or serious regional economic damage (just imagine if one of the major dams broke what that could do to farming, business, or even a small town or city.

The question however, is not should we spend money to repair? The answer is yes. We should ask how did they get like that to begin with? The truth is, government, both federal, state, and local have neglected the needed maintenance on our infrastructure for decades.

In closing, it is my opinion that although this is necessary spending, this will not spurn any long term job or economic growth, you are merely catching up on what should have been done all along. This is one of the many reasons why the stimulus only worked for a short period of time in the present situation. You are not creating any new infrastructure to increase your competitive advantage from the Country's perspective, but merely, maintaining old ones.

Hope you get some good feedback on this one.

reply to post by deanGI5


well I wanted to ask it because I feel like we would be the most opposition to spending on infrastructrue. and to truly find out if conservatives felt that yes it is time to spend on it. Then we could conclude that yes this is a real need that we have even with all the spending that has gone on in the last what 3 1/2 years.

reply to post by American-philosopher


government spending is out of control at this point.

No disrespect to you nor your thread, but it doesn't matter what the people say/vote about it.

Like someone mentioned a few posts up, the only real option left for the people now is revolution. That or sit back and watch... which hasn't proven to do much good in the past..

Originally posted by zroth


There is only one option left. Revolution.

As long as profit is the only motivation we are doomed.

Infrastructure is a requirement of our alleged advanced society.

There is no room for discussion about the need. It is like water, food and shelter.

Government is failing everywhere, along with modern money mechanics. Time for something new.

Peace

No not revolution in an armed sense.

As of August 1st all agencies are converted to 12-person advisory councils to congress. All their buildings, auction them off as is, lay off everyone. Nearly every "program", restrictions on individuals and businesses that is not supported by clear verbage in the constitution is void and instantly nonexistent. Constitutional amendment to repeal the income tax on individuals, persons, corporations, businesses and instead is a point-of-sale flat tax to get at all the massive underground non-tax paying economy (even drug dealers gotta eat, buy clothes, gas, etc.) Family pooled healthcare and retirement accounts that can be passed on generation to generation with no govts able to touch a penny. That money can buy addition and catastrophic insurances. Everyone has at least one parent at some time in their life. The family pool decides how the money is dispursed with verification yea or nay documents for each instance.

reply to post by American-philosopher


These are the shovel ready jobs that Obama was talking about, before he realized that all the regulations in place, don’t make them so shovel ready.

This is one of the things that I support taxes for, other than National Security. Everything else needs a serious rethink.


Yea, ya still got it. Good question.

If it was done similar to the CCC or the TVA then yes I could support that.

Too many people would want their hand in the cookie jar for it to work today I think though.

Part of Obama's stimulus bill was to do some infrastructure improvements that were called "shovel ready projects", but instead a good percentage of the money was wasted on signs to advertise to taxpayers that Obama was responsible for the projects, and nothing got done because the projects weren't "shovel ready". But we did get new shiny signs!

I agree with one of the earlier posters that said he would support infrastructure spending if it had deep cuts included elsewhere. There are way too many agencies that are full of employees whose only purpose in life is justify their jobs. If someone develops the guts to take that on, we might get somewhere.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
I agree with one of the earlier posters that said he would support infrastructure spending if it had deep cuts included elsewhere. There are way too many agencies that are full of employees whose only purpose in life is justify their jobs. If someone develops the guts to take that on, we might get somewhere.

That was me. I have since come up with a better idea.

Spending money on infrastructure and research, etc., is important...when you have the means to pay for it. Think about it this way: you're heavily in debt, unable to make minimum payments unless your credit card company raises your limit so you have more money available. You are spending more than 60% of your income on interest alone and the 40% you have left is just enough to allow you to survive, but since you are not paying any principal you are getting further in debt. Admittedly, however, you still have cable TV, a cell phone, a computer...."necessary luxuries".

Your house however needs work. The deck is still standing, but may cause problems in the next few years. Your refrigerator isn't as cold as it should be, but is still working well enough to keep your food fresh. Plus, your garage no longer opens leaving you to have to park in the street, which is inconvenient but livable.

So what do you do? Do you beg your credit card company to go even further out on a limb and extend you even more credit? Knowing even higher payments on interest alone will further cripple you financially? Or do you suck it up, pay down your debt, cut any and all unnecessary spending, and try to earn more money or at
least try and save a little over the next year and pay for your house improvements in cash?

Originally posted by deanGI5
posing a question for conservatives on ATS is like posing a question for satanists in a christian church. You are on the wrong site to ask a question directed to that audience and expect a fair and conclusive answer

Why does it have to be for conservatives? The 14 trillion we owe isn't payable by conservatives only. Last time I checked each family-- democrat, republican, elves, etc.--owe around $48k each in order to pay this debt.

Further, with talk of invoking the 14th Amendment to cover this debt ceiling raise, I should think it high time for every American to wake the heck up and realize we are all sitting on a freight train headed directly into a pitch black tunnel with no idea of what's on the other side.

Further, the conservative mentality can be as fair and unfair as any liberal, democratic, or independent opinion.

It would be wonderful to hire people to work on our damns, streets, sewers and other needed repairs.

Where is the money to pay them coming from?

There are several products and services that are not legal in the USA.

These services and products are big money makers and I see no slow down in the trends.

Make them legal, with limits, and tax them.

The product and services are not going to go away.
Tax them and try to imagine how much money our country would make just from the aforementioned taxes.

Our prisons are over crowded and our local jails have resorted to cots on the floors for prisoners to sleep on.

Befor you nix the notion of the taxation I have suggested take a few moments think of the trickle down benefits that would just keep getting better.

We do need to cut spending. As far as infrastructure, that should be left up to the states. The fed should really only be spending on defence. Maintaining the military but closing all the bases across the world. Things like social security and medicare are paid into and should not count towards the budget. As far as welfare programs, again that should fall into the states. Also I think a law should be passed that governors', congress, senate and the president's salary should be based on the average income of the people they represent. If the state is in the black and the average income is 65k then thats what the public officials will make. We can not maintain a budget with the average income in the private sector is half of what the public sector is. Thats how you end up spending more than you take in.

reply to post by lpowell0627


I dont no if I have an answer for your creative story example that you posed (back in school story problems were not my favorite) but let me pose this question that i have thought on. we have all heard this one right? If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day, but teach him how to fish he will eat for a lifetime. But what if the man doesn;t have the proper utensils to clean and gut the fish? what if the man doesnt have the pan to cook/fry the fish? utensils and pan I equate to our infrastructure. how do we eat if we dont have our basic to get our food transportation roads etc??