The Life Of Muhammad

If you are looking for a good biographical book about the life of Muhammad, I would highly suggest 'Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum (The Sealed Nectar)' by Safi-ur-Rahman al-Mubarkpuri. In 1979 this book was awarded first place by the Muslim World League, at the first Islamic Conference on Seerah.

I no longer adhere to Islam, however this is hands down one of the best books covering seerah (life of Muhammad).

reply to post by lbndhr

Being ats has minds of conspiracy thoughts, this is an pdd place to try and push a faith.

you see it as pushing faith? I see this thread as something purely educational - it's a good thing

since Freeborn is agnostic - he could hardly be accused of proselytizing...unless there's a way to sell people on organized uncertainty (I too am an agnostic/atheist - depends on what kind of day I'm having) :-)

although - this is ATS - I'm surprised this thread hasn't already degenerated into a Rothschild/reptilian brawl and/or virtual food fight

but it's still early

oops

oops, sorry - and how does this happen?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Unfortunately this thread has been buried in the nether regions of Off Topic Discussions so I very much doubt it will receive the exposure and contributions it would have done.

I'm certainly not pushing any agenda's.....and if I was I very much doubt it would be a pro-Islamic one.

I firmly believe that organised religion is the bane of mankind.
I also believe the very question of 'Gods' existence is a complete irrelevance.
However, I recognise that I am in the minority in thinking that and religion is a great comfort to a lot of people in this world.
But that is all a discussion for somewhere else.

As I stated earlier I have real and genuine fears about Islamic extremism, associated acts and it's increase in influence throughout the world.
It could possibly be the biggest threat to our continued development and evolution.

'The West' and it's belief in individual freedoms is the very antithesis of Islam.
If we are to peacefully coexist then it is imperative that we understand each other's viewpoints, beliefs, priorities and ambitions.
To do that we must study each other.

If we do not then co-existence will be impossible and confrontation inevitable.

This series of programmes offers an ideal opportunity for people to learn something about Muhammed's life.

It will be interestig to see how the details of Muhammed's later life are covered and what Muslim reaction will be.

Unfortunately I doubt we'll get much of that here now.

reply to post by Freeborn

Unfortunately this thread has been buried in the nether regions of Off Topic Discussions so I very much doubt it will receive the exposure and contributions it would have done.

Seriously - off topic? From which topic would this be off ? :-)

I'm certainly not pushing any agenda's.....and if I was I very much doubt it would be a pro-Islamic one.

I firmly believe that organised religion is the bane of mankind.
I also believe the very question of 'Gods' existence is a complete irrelevance.
However, I recognise that I am in the minority in thinking that and religion is a great comfort to a lot of people in this world.
But that is all a discussion for somewhere else.

I’d promise not to blather on about this for a full page - but I think everything you just said is completely relevant here and now and worth a discussion. And anyway – it’s not like anyone is listening

So, it’s just a chat then. Religion and/or atheism can’t be discussed without pissing somebody off – and most people think that they are tolerant – it’s everyone else that’s an irrational threat. And everyone who isn’t as afraid as they are are stupid and dangerous

especially leftist peaceniks – they’re the most dangerous of all :-)

fear and uncertainty gets to all of us one way or another. Thing of it is – it gets to all of us – even the Muslims. Everyone feels threatened, draws their line in the sand, digs in their heels and prepares for the worst. Some people stop preparing for the worst and go on the offensive instead – on both sides

I’m going to stop talking like a girl scout now and just say - I’m with you. Religion isn’t an opiate – it’s more like a full frontal lobotomy

there – that ought to do it

having said that – I really only believe that to be true when it comes to fundamentalists and extremists – and that is the god’s honest truth. I may not share other people’s beliefs – but it’s not as if I don’t understand them. It’s not even that I don’t think they’re beautiful – I simply don’t see our existence the same way as they do

but when some god fearing people start talking about killing people that don’t fear the right god – it’s hard not to see the lie – and I see that lie everywhere

as someone mentioned recently in another thread – religion isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. So it comes down to empathy, mutual respect – and tolerance

oh, yeah – and calm, clear headed, rational thinking. So, we’re screwed - pretty much :-)

As I stated earlier I have real and genuine fears about Islamic extremism, associated acts and it's increase in influence throughout the world.
It could possibly be the biggest threat to our continued development and evolution.

'The West' and it's belief in individual freedoms is the very antithesis of Islam.
If we are to peacefully coexist then it is imperative that we understand each other's viewpoints, beliefs, priorities and ambitions.
To do that we must study each other.

absolutely – and not just study each other, but experience each other. And that goes for both sides – when you actually get to know someone and spend time with them – the strangeness disappears – and so does the fear

OK – before I start hinting around for a group hug – just wanted to say – I really do appreciate the attempt. It's been pretty bad here in the States for several years now - but lately the anti-Muslim drumming has gotten louder and louder. I was beginning to lose sight of the fact that most people are rational. Please tell me I'm not wrong.

even if you have to lie

This series of programmes offers an ideal opportunity for people to learn something about Muhammed's life.

It will be interestig to see how the details of Muhammed's later life are covered and what Muslim reaction will be.

Unfortunately I doubt we'll get much of that here now.

unfortunately – but hope springs eternal :-)

reply to post by Freeborn

The youtube link has been put down, and the BBC one isn't working for outside of the UK.

For now, maybe this works? Is it the same documentary? I'm going through it right now:



Freeborn, since you mentioned it twice in this thread already, I was wondering...what do you mean by individuality and individual freedoms being one of those points that is an anti-thesis of Islam?

Islam, being a religion with a code of conduct and a set of laws, obviously has rules on what a person can and cannot do (along with Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Jainism, etc.). However, it seems to me that it strikes a good balance between it's concept of unity of the people (the ummah), and individual liberties- something I realised recently that many in the west don't seem to be quite aware of- instead thinking that Islam requires muslims to become some sort of amorphous, robotic borg army.

The reason it came to mind recently was, hilariously enough, with the operation against OBL. The government (and media) made a big thing about how "Why didn't anyone notice this strange compound, with its high walls?" And on and on about the high walls.

The thing is, even the poorest village hut, in the most far-flung village, with just a small patch of garden at the back to grow beans in would have a high wall. Because privacy is a very important part of Islam. Muslims are not allowed to enter into anyone's house unless given permission, If they call out at the door (or ring the bell or whatever), and get no answer repeatedly, then they should just go away, etc.

reply to post by babloyi


I think Rageh Omaar touches upon it in the programme.

In The West the concept of personal choice runs deep.
Freedom of thought, belief and speech are important in 'western' societies.
Of course we aren't as free as they try to tell us we are and we certainly aren't as free as some of us would like us to be.

But Islam is an all-encompassing belief system which governs and dictates most aspects of a followers life.

The programme explains that the decision to become a Muslim must be freely made, but once this is made then it is total submission to Allah's word.
Of course, like all religions, there are different interpretations of Allah's word, hence the different denonominations within Islam.
And the more extreme and fundamental interpretations of Islam see things slightly different and seek to impose their particular brand of Islam on people with a submit or die type of approach.

If my understanding of Islam, it's beliefs and it's goals etc are incorrect maybe this series of programmes will help me.

reply to post by Sahabi


Thanks I will certainly get this book. I just wonder how it went so badly wrong regarding women and intolerance. I liked the first episode also.

Enough with the 'tolerance and understanding'

Islam is a supposed 'religion' that demands the death penalty for any who renounce it.

That is all you really need to grasp about Islam! - to know what sort of 'religion' it is.

Anyone who 'tolerates' that - deserves for their children to be next, as they say!

Just watched the second episode.

I am going to reserve judgement until I've watched the 3rd and final episode but what I will say is that I definately found it informative.

Oh, and as a matter of interest, try to count how many times Rageh Omaar, who I am quite impressed with, says "according to Muslim tradition".

Here's the link for those that can access it;
www.bbc.co.uk...

I hope we can sort something out for those that can't. it really is worth taking the time to watch.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I apologize for my statement, I didn't realize he is agnostic therefore the thread us done as educational, which is a good thing being alot of people are afraid to read about it

Here's the third and last episode; www.bbc.co.uk...

I haven't watched it yet but will do later today and will post some thoughts / observations when I have.....not that it seems anyone else is interested

I think it should be possible to watch all three episodes by following this link.

www.youtube.com.../u

reply to post by Freeborn


I'm interested - just scattered

I just bookmarked the latest link you posted. To those that know me, that means: nothing

:-)

I am interested in what you thought - so I'll commit to watching it this week

I just finished watching the last one. As a muslim, the series didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know before, but I acknowledge that it could be a valuable resource for those who have no idea about the life of Muhammad (which is basically, most non-muslims).

If you want to know the truth about what Mohammed teaches the followers of Islam to do to non-muslims here is what you have to do.

1) Ignore everything that I tell you.

2) Ignore everything that the media tells you.

3) Ignore everything that people on this website tell you.

4) Buy a copy of the Qur'an. Buy a few different copies of the Qur'an.

5) Read for yourself what Mohammed instructs Muslims to do to non-muslims.

Realize that there is not a Muslim on Earth who removes the instructions from Mohammed from the Qur'an. Mohammed is to the Qur'an as Jesus is to the Bible. Mohammed is to Islam as Jesus is to Christianity.

READ FOR YOURSELF the truth of what Mohammed teaches. That is all that I can ask you to do.

Personally I found the series informative and reasonably fair and balanced.
However, I'm under no illusion that it is THE definative story of his life.

But for most non-Muslims it probably went a fair way to demystifying Mohammed and thus helping us understand his followers and his religion.

It was telling that it was always respectful and at times reverential towards Mohammed and it was obvious that every effort had been made to respect the more sensitive Muslim sensibilities....that is not intended as a criticism but rather an observation....I fully understand the reasoning behind this as otherwise I very much doubt the programme would have aired at all.

It was also pretty telling that all the experts on show were Islamic and Muslim academics and there were no 'experts' to give any opposing views or versions or events etc.

I've gained a bit more of an understanding of the society in which these events occurred and as always I think it's important that when forming an opinion on events of yesteryear that we take them in context of the time and society in which they occurred.

reply to post by Freeborn

Originally posted by Freeborn
It was also pretty telling that all the experts on show were Islamic and Muslim academics and there were no 'experts' to give any opposing views or versions or events etc.

Actually, I noticed a number of the "opposing" camp, including Robert Spencer and Nonie Dervish, and there were probably a couple more who I didn't know.

Obviously, as you said, the BBC couldn't actively be involved in a show that would be antagonising muslims as a whole, but on the average, I'd say it was reasonably balanced: It passed the litmus test of being criticised by anti-muslims for being too pro, and by muslims for being too anti .