Is there a Provable Absolute Reality? Or is all Physics and Science only Relative Speculation?

In blogs I wrote in the past I always made the claim that there is no provable reality. Lately on ATS on posts having to do with the ET UFO phenomena I have gotten into debates with knowledgeable science and math people who keep arguing science makes ET/aliens visiting us impossible and base their 'proof' by giving current scientific data showing the known physical universe would make it impossible. I claim the known universe is not necessarily
'The' universe. Or then again there is no provable unchangeable universe and site the way nuclear physics and Einstein in the 20th Century changed both reality and the universe. So again is it possible that aliens [ETs] see a more advanced scientific reality which allows intergalactic space travel etc. What do you think?

I think looking into the Holigraphic Universe theory/idea/concept whate ever you'd like to call it, particularly the book by Michael Talbot, there are videos on youtube about it but it is better understood by reading this book i believe. Definately brings thought to what is reality.

I don't believe science has fully graced, maybe just a speck of what we reality we really are in. Mostly by theory. We can conclude atoms, for example make up the physical world of atoms in solid objects and cells for living things, we interact as such by what is presented. Though, we have not proven what is beyond that, it's only a speculation. As science plays a part, but a small part of reality. Most of it, still just a theory.

I would say that yes, there are provable realities. But the key is that there are many of them, and since my realities are not shared, to another, it doesn't exist.
In the end, I suppose it depends on an individual definition of "reality."

as we continue to find out facts 50 yrs ago were not facts
what is true today is false later so science is not as perfect as they want to believe
we think we are so smart when we do not even know everything on this planet as yet
i think we will discover many impossible things as we realize what science quotes as fact is just not as black and white as taught
just ask them how does a magnet work
any and all things are possible in my humble opinion

Ask Newton and he will wing an apple at your head...if you duck or feel a thud, then ya, thats all the proof you need.


Ask a person dealing with quantum physics, and they are not so sure.

Ask a string theorist and they will try to figure out which dimension just asked that question from.

The answer is: The universe, and our reality, is a incredibly wonderful mystery we are just barely scratching the surface of understanding on...and the more we scratch, the more we realize we don't know

reply to post by RUNSILENT

Magnets are easy.
www.ehow.com...

Gravity, not so much. But we don't really have to know how (or why) it works to know how it behaves. On the other hand, if we did know why it works we might be able to figure out ways to manipulate it.

Re: the OP. Science (saying physics and science is a bit redundant) invokes speculation in the early stages, the formation of hypotheses. When it gets to the point of a theory, where there is evidence to support the initial hypothesis, the speculation aspect fades. When a point is reached where there is enough evidence for a theory to be considered a law, speculation doesn't have much to do with it any longer. But to take your question to its basis, there is no provable, all encompassing "reality". Reality is a conglomeration of parts. Science tries to figure out, one by one, what those parts are and what they do. There is no end to reality and there is no end to science.

Originally posted by RUNSILENT
as we continue to find out facts 50 yrs ago were not facts
what is true today is false later so science is not as perfect as they want to believe
we think we are so smart when we do not even know everything on this planet as yet

-shakes fists at "they".

Science is a tool...you can't blame a shovel on a shallow hole, and you can't suggest science is not perfect...it is a tool that is modified and enhanced over time...scientists now...some do tend to stick with knowledge already gained as their basis for opinions and think it is the final answer...they are often incorrect..but by then, they are not speaking in terms of science, they are speaking in terms of understanding (a product of science)

reply to post by AlienView


we can prove that our senses are being told information from somewhere, beyond that, who knows.

as for the ET/alien counter argument you are being given, you could remind them that space may be bent, so even if light-speed is accepted as the speed block for things with mass, shortening the distance between two points shortens the time to get there.

i have my own theory: pretty much everything is possible, in one form or another. sometimes many forms.

what i mean is, a couple hundred years ago flight seemed impossible. nowadays we have planes, jets, helicopters, gliders etc. maybe in a few more hundred years, we would be able to manipulate human genetics flawlessly, and give people wings, or transfer a person's conscience into something that can fly.

there is always a way to do everything.

I realized that I only addressed the title of the thread (the OP actually having somewhat of a different tack).

Science doesn't "make it" impossible that Earth is, or has been, visited by ETs. However what we know about travel through space and time makes it very difficult to figure out a way that it could be possible (except for just saying, "well, maybe...").

Originally posted by RUNSILENT
as we continue to find out facts 50 yrs ago were not facts
what is true today is false later so science is not as perfect as they want to believe
we think we are so smart when we do not even know everything on this planet as yet
i think we will discover many impossible things as we realize what science quotes as fact is just not as black and white as taught
just ask them how does a magnet work
any and all things are possible in my humble opinion

I tend to go along with most of your comments.
However, I reject the statement about science and whatever it is "they want (us?) to believe".
Of course one should differentiate between "science" and "scientists". While (most) scientists indeed try to act as if we know it all, actually they are violating the core nature of science. It's part of that core that scientific knowledge gets depreciated... that's what gives scientific progress

Philosophically, it is unclear whether any kind of existence can be proved (if by proof you mean beyond a reasonable doubt).

Scientifically, from my very limited understanding, all they can claim is that based on our knowledge now, we see no way for faster-than-light guided, directional, intentional travel by an object with mass. I'm not sure if it is Fringe science or not, but some scientists claim that perhaps faster-than-light travel by an object with mass is possible. But even if that were true, the more difficult part would be traversing the infinitely vast universe and somehow knowing the layout well enough to go to and from a specific place over and over again (assuming they are visiting from galaxies far, far away).

So impossible, no. Far-fetched, definitely.

reply to post by AlienView


There is no Provable Absolute Reality. Science is only relative speculation on our part through the human perspective.

everything that is impermanent has a proportion of permanence to it. If you did away with permanence (Reality) there would be no temporal reality (life) possible.

Material science can neither affirm nor deny that which is immaterial (soul).

You have to first except axioms of what constitutes reality and define evidence. And an idiot can argue even the most consistent argument.

Originally posted by AlienView
In blogs I wrote in the past I always made the claim that there is no provable reality. Lately on ATS on posts having to do with the ET UFO phenomena I have gotten into debates with knowledgeable science and math people who keep arguing science makes ET/aliens visiting us impossible and base their 'proof' by giving current scientific data showing the known physical universe would make it impossible. I claim the known universe is not necessarily
'The' universe. Or then again there is no provable unchangeable universe and site the way nuclear physics and Einstein in the 20th Century changed both reality and the universe. So again is it possible that aliens [ETs] see a more advanced scientific reality which allows intergalactic space travel etc. What do you think?

edit on 12-7-2011 by AlienView because: Spelling correction

I believe absolutely their universe coexists alongside ours and is made out of different as well as similar stuff.

The thing about coming from nothing is that nothing is also infinity. As the paradox of infinity and nothing as one thing, there is room for exploration. Infinity is not limited to the finite periodic table, nor is it limited to physical matter, nor any other finite concept. All finite concepts are an illusion.

When you evolve, it is your awareness of infinity that is evolving which inversely is also your awareness and comprehension of nothingness. Things become more infinite and more nothing. Obviously, physical matter is just a small part of the big picture when seen in this light. Not only physical matter, but the concept of space and time itself. They become malleable.

The answer to the question in your title. Absolute reality is the paradox of infinity and nothing. Physics and Science are accurate observations, but what is unobservable does not make it non-existant.

reply to post by AlienView


What we have and exist in is very much a human's perspective on the universe. We observe it and gather data to help other humans relate to it. It is by no means a complete or even a semi-complete set of data, but is all we have. And the data that exists continues to grow with the technology available.

Take a creature like Rot Lop Fan, of the Green Lantern Core. Obviouslly this is a creature of fiction, but it's the thought that counts.

Rot Lop is part of a species of aliens that live in the deepest darkest part of space. Hence they are born without eyes and have enhanced hearing.

The Green Lantern Core had to invent a completely new system of power for Rot Lop for has no concept of light, or the color green. (If you know nothing about Green Lantern he uses special ring to produce and control light) Rot Lop was then given the power of the F-sharp Bell, a device that worked like the other rings but had the ability to work through sound.

Now imagine this species as a race of intelligent beings who have developed their own type culture/society/technology, and how different there idea of the universe would be (given their lack of certain concepts, [not mention concepts they have that we wouldn't]) from ours as humans.

Gotta give props to Alan Moore for thinking out of the box...

All in all I agree with the OP on this one.

reply to post by AlienView


Personally, I subscribe to the holomovement physics model but... there will never be a provable "absolute reality" because it would be proven inside the parameters of said reality.

It's like a religious person saying "Yes, my god exists! It says so right in his holy book!"

Scientists think they know it all.
they only know what they have guess’t so far.
it is like a child trying to under stand reality.
they dont know how gravity works.
and to get it to work they way they say it does.
they make dark matter!!!! LOL!