The Jihad is in full swing, id say were already loosing. Religion of peace?

Originally posted by megawattboss
reply to post by ollncasino

 

lol you argue like a school boy who knows he is wrong.

learn some proper propaganda. I hope there is a hate monger out there who can argue with greater fluency because it's pretty lame to see you guys being as cookie cutter as possible with your responses.

you sound like straight drones the way you talk about it ha ha

Yet another ad monenium attack.

Yet Muslims in America have tried to carry out a large number of very real physical attacks

Muslim Americans conspiring to destroy the Brooklyn bridge, a Somali Muslim living in Ohio plotting to blow up a local shopping mall, a cell of 7 Muslims plotting to blow up the New York stock exchange, A US Muslim and accomplice plotting to blow up the NY subway, two NY mosque leaders who plotted to blow up an Indian diplomat with a shoulder fired grenade launcher, a group of 4 Muslims who plotted to blow up National Guard facilities and synagogues in the LA area, 2 Muslims who conspired to blow up the Wyoming natural gas refinery & the Transcontinental Pipeline, a Muslim flying into Chicago plotting to use a dirty bomb in the USA, 2 Muslim men plotting to blow up the US Capitol and Word Bank Headquarters, 7 Muslims arrested for plotting to blow up the Sears tower in Chicago, 8 Muslims arrested for planning to blow up NY city train tunnels, a Muslim man who plotted to set off hand grenades in a shopping mall outside Chicago, 6 Muslims conspiring to attack Fort Dix, New Jersey, a Muslim who planned to set of a TAPT bomb in the NY subway, a Muslim who plotted to blow up a Dallas skyscraper, a Muslim who tried to set off a car bomb outside the courthouse in downtown Springfield, Illinois, 2 Muslims who plotted to murder civilians in US shopping malls, 4 Muslims plotting to blow up “aviation fuel tanks and pipelines at the John F. Kennedy International Airport” in New York City and 4 Muslims planning to shoot down planes with stinger missiles.

creepingsharia.wordpress.com...

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


That's not the point, whether it shows up precisely in written form and whether it is determined by how it is put into practice or not within the Quran or Hadith is not the core of this dilemma...The thing about most religions is that people may interpret it in different ways...which is of course why you end up with different sects, denominations or factions within a major religious branch....such as Islam. Not everyone can agree with the same, exact interpretation.......can they?

Well...in that case some Muslims may very well be carrying out terrorist acts in the name of Islam because of how they interpret it. It wouldn't be any less valid than how you personally choose to interpret it. Nor would it give their cause any less reason. This can be said with any religion.....High in fiction...Low in facts.

So you really have no argument here at all. Muslims that commit terrorist acts are no less Muslim than those who do not. Doesn't it bother you that a common factor among Muslims is that terrorism seems to be far more prevalent when compared to people of other faiths? I know I wouldn't be comfortable calling myself a Muslim given all the implications that goe with it. How embarrassing.

because the muslim haterz obviously have an agenda that is something other than to promote understanding and love between human beings (concepts that travel across the whole species regardless of race and religion), I will just note that this "argument" devolved to the haterz reusing out of context quotes that had already been addressed and shown to be fallacies by those who bothered to be factually accurate and using blanket statements declaring the nature of all people of the Islamic faith to be violent and unappreciative of human life. One of the amateurz here must have spent a good deal of time looking for a new out of context quote to help him out. Something about God viewing non believers as animals.

We could use that translation, or we could go by the literal word by word translated straight from arabic.

corpus.quran.com...

"The worst of the living creatures near god are those who disbelieve and they [will] not believe"

It seems to have a much less harsh connotation when it is translated without embellishment? What does this mean? It's bad not to believe in the religion of the supposedly one, true god. Not that God views non believers as animals. You can find posts of mine from earlier in this topic that refute the notion that God views any of his subjects as inferior in any way according to the quran.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Your weak translation proves no point at all. As I stated 3 times already, the correct translation reads "...religion should be only for Allah."

That is interesting.

What does the Chairman of the Council for American Islamic Relations have to say on this matter?

“Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qu’ran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth.”

www.huffingtonpost.com...

So Islam should be the only accepted relgion on earth?

Still, I'm sure that your understanding of the Koran is much better than the Chairman of the Council for American Islamic Relations...

Originally posted by ollncasino
Yet another ad monenium attack.

Yet Muslims in America have tried to carry out a large number of very real physical attacks

[Insert long description of supposed plots by terrorists that has nothing to do with the religious text that was being debated]

You are a straight poet son! "yet another ad monenium attack, yet muslims in america have tried to carry out a large number of very real physical attacks."

yet, you continue to ignore the fact that I'm able to disprove your forced ideology that Islam is a religion based on violence and resort to quoting the same verses in order to continue to make it seem as if the "argument" is being won by you. I know most probably won't read through this topic, so I'm sure you'd like to go out on a page where you've made yourself seem to have the upper hand. This is emphatically far from the reality, so please understand this unbias readers, and please look to my numerous posts preceeding, and I'm sure following, this one.

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

 

That's not the point, whether it shows up precisely in written form and whether it is determined by how it is put into practice or not within the Quran or Hadith is not the core of this dilemma...The thing about most religions is that people may interpret it in different ways...which is of course why you end up with different sects, denominations or factions within a major religious branch....such as Islam. Not everyone can agree with the same, exact interpretation.......can they?

Well...in that case some Muslims may very well be carrying out terrorist acts in the name of Islam because of how they interpret it. It wouldn't be any less valid than how you personally choose to interpret it. Nor would it give their cause any less reason. This can be said with any religion.....High in fiction...Low in facts.

So you really have no argument here at all. Muslims that commit terrorist acts are no less Muslim than those who do not. Doesn't it bother you that a common factor among Muslims is that terrorism seems to be far more prevalent when compared to people of other faiths? I know I wouldn't be comfortable calling myself a Muslim given all the implications that goe with it. How embarrassing.

See that's the problem. The implications don't matter because I'm not a muslim to please any human beings. I'm not a muslim to make anybody comfortable, and I'm very comfortable being a muslim. In the end, I could give a damn about what you really think about me, it's just the fact that your opinion of me, is based off of sponsored media propaganda, brainwashed poor middle easterns with bad comprehension, and lies passed off as islam by the salaf/wahhabi sect.

I didn't know faith was something people chose based upon how it makes them look.

reply to post by ollncasino


I love how on one hand, you hold the entire religion accountable for out of context, easily explainable verses in the Quran.

Then, the very next moment, you toss aside any interpretation of the text as being pertinent at all to understanding the religion, instead favoring random quotes that you googled from random people that contradict the text you had just moments before held as being the true authority on the matter.

To answer your question, the actions of the few do not define the populace. If that was true, then all Americans would be full of greed and void of compassion for humans.

in other words: amateur. you know you don't have any legs to stand on in this argument, yet you continue to parrot away your hateful speech. what is it like to be a person of this quality?

Originally posted by megawattboss
...you continue to ignore the fact that I'm able to disprove your forced ideology that Islam is a religion based on violence and resort to quoting the same verses in order to continue to make it seem as if the "argument" is being won by you.

In a sense, it doesn't matter what the Koran says.

What matters is what Muslims do.

Look at Muhammad. He waged war, enslaved women and children, murdered POWs, raided caravans (murdering the guards) and was generally a violent warlord.

Don't tell me...

It was all defensive.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

 

I didn't know faith was something people chose based upon how it makes them look.

The only brainwashing that is truly happening is when people use their faith as means to carry out murderous acts...in the case of Muslims, it certainly wouldn't seem out of the question.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Your weak translation proves no point at all. As I stated 3 times already, the correct translation reads "...religion should be only for Allah."

That is interesting.

What does the Chairman of the Council for American Islamic Relations have to say on this matter?

“Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qu’ran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth.”

www.huffingtonpost.com...

So Islam should be the only accepted relgion on earth?

Still, I'm sure that your understanding of the Koran is much better than the Chairman of the Council for American Islamic Relations...

Well, according to this article which was published by a sister company the platform that originally published the said "quote"... It's origin/accuracy is wayyyy up in the air.

reply to post by laiguana


you guys work in tandem right? one chirps away with "hard facts" fresh out the google search box, and the other just spouts generalist hatred that amounts to, "if one Muslim has ever been a terrorist, then they are all as human beings tainted and less good than all other human beings."

reply to post by ollncasino


Don't tell me, you had that entire passage written down somewhere, cuz you just copy and pasted it from earlier in the topic

P.O.W.? Your precious Swiss banks hadn't thought up the Geneva conventions yet.

I'm forced to document and explain away all the facts you present. Why don't you document and explain to me historical evidence that irrefutably shows your claims right now so that I may more easily explain their fallacies. Otherwise, it seems only fair to assume that what you said isn't true by any means or any false interpretation of real facts.

reply to post by megawattboss


If that's how you decide to see it...it doesn't bother me the least bit. No one here can deny that Muslims will use their faith as a way to justify their actions, even if it means killing thousands of innocent lives.
The obvious conclusion would be that Islam and terrorism are the ones in tandem.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by iBleedSovietR3D

 

Your entire thread just got debunked as your primary resource is a hate thread anyway.

is this your thread?
Today's Christianity is False. MITHRAS = CHRISTIANITY
www.abovetopsecret.com...

what's the difference? i can argue till the cows come home that symbols used by the catholic church are not evidence that christianity is false. if i take a picture of the crescent moon and star and claim it's the eye of ra, and therefore islam is a false religion of sun god ra worship, will you think i'm being deliberately obtuse? oh look, there's a square black building in the middle of mecca. and there's a square black box on the forehead of jews, therefore, islam must be judaism. it's so ludicrous it makes me want to pull my hair out.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Well, according to this article which was published by a sister company the platform that originally published the said "quote"... It's origin/accuracy is wayyyy up in the air.

You didn't read the whole article, did you?

While Ahmad insists the alleged 1998 comments are inconsistent with his character, CAIR and a number of its staff members have been tied to jihadist groups bent on Islamic conquest.

Ahmad served as president of CAIR's parent group, the now-defunct Islamic Association for Palestine, or IAP, which was founded in 1981 by Hamas leader Mousa Abu Marzook and former university professor Sami al-Arian, who pleaded guilty this year to conspiracy to provide services to Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The U.S. deported Marzook to Jordan in 1997.

Ahmad denied any association with Hamas, arguing U.S. authorities never shut down the IAP – it folded in 2005 – and it was founded before the emergence of Hamas itself in 1987.

Two former FBI counter-terrorism chiefs, however, called the IAP a front organization in the U.S. for Hamas, which features in its charter the goal of Israel's destruction and Islam's dominance over the Holy Land.

www.wnd.com...

So it looks as if his statement was entirely in character with what he supports.

reply to post by laiguana


Because you saying that Muslim people are evil makes them evil. I don't understand how your posts are even admissible when all they do is promote hatred without any facts other than, "there have been terrorists that are muslim [let's ignore all other instances of wrongful killing that occur currently in the modern world, be it done by people who manufacture bomb belts or uniformed men with high-grade weaponry], therefore it is clear that all Muslim people are evil."

since you are either completely brainwashed, or a drone of those who which to promote hatred across all borders, feel free to not directly address me in your comments. Nothing I say will change their content.

reply to post by ollncasino


well the government said it, so it must be true.

well I'm going to sleep, so you amateurs can feel free to clog up these pages with your hate drivel. We'll see how you feel if one day the actions of the few at the top of your institutions cause you to be held accountable for their evils.

Originally posted by megawattboss
I'm forced to document and explain away all the facts you present. Why don't you document and explain to me historical evidence that irrefutably shows your claims right now so that I may more easily explain their fallacies.

Yes, surely.

Perhaps the most notorious jihad that Muhammed was directly involved in was the beheading of 800 male Jews of the Banu Qurayza.

The Koran itself refers to the murder of the Jews (suwar 33:26 & 33:27).

33:26 He also brought down their allies among the people of the scripture from their secure positions, and threw terror into their hearts. Some of them you killed, and some you took captive.

33:27 He made you inherit their land, their homes, their money, and lands you had never stepped on. God is in full control of all things.

Note the above source is The authorized translation of the Koran.

www.submission.org...

For a better explanation of what the Suras refer to, please see

www.quranexplained.co.uk...

33:26 Those People of the Scripture who allied with the clans (despite having a treaty with you), have been taken out from their forts and strongholds, and panic has struck their hearts. Some of them were killed in the battle and others were taken prisoners of war. (The Jewish tribe, Bani Quraizah had violated the treaty, although another Jewish tribe, Bani Nadir of Khyber had also been among the confederates).

A much more comprehensive explanation is that of Ibn Ishaq.

Ibn Ishaq was a devout Muslim historian and was the author of the first biography about Muhammad - Sirat Rasul Allah - "Life of God's Messenger" in 768 AD. He provided details about the episode mentioned in sura 33:26 & 33:27.

www.archive.org...

From page 84 & 85 of Ibn Ishaq's biography about Muhammad

"The apostle of Allah imprisoned the Qurayza in Medina while trenches were dug in the market-place. Then he sent for the men and had their heads struck off so that they fell in the trenches.

They were brought out in groups, and among them was Kab, the chief of the tribe. In number, they amounted to six or seven hundred, although some state it to have been eight or nine hundred. All were executed.

One man turned to his people and said, 'It matters not! By God's will, the children of Israel were destined for this massacre!’ Then he seated himself and his head was struck off... ...Now the apostle distributed the property of the Banu Qurayza, as well as their women and children, to the Muslims, reserving one-fifth for himself. Every horseman received three shares, one for himself and two for his steed, and every foot soldier one share. There were thirty-six horses present on the day of the Qurayza.

The apostle dispatched an emissary to Najd with the prisoners, to barter them as slaves in exchange for horses and camels. The apostle of Allah selected one of the Jewish women, Rayhana, for himself, and she remained with him as his slave until she died. He had suggested marriage to her, that she should wear the veil (to separate her from all other persons, as his wives did), but she replied, 'Rather allow me to remain thy slave; it will be more easy for me, and for thee.'"

Have fun with some more ad hominem attacks.

That seems to be the height your defence of Islam reaches.

Originally posted by megawattboss
reply to post by laiguana

 

Because you saying that Muslim people are evil makes them evil. I don't understand how your posts are even admissible when all they do is promote hatred without any facts other than, "there have been terrorists that are muslim [let's ignore all other instances of wrongful killing that occur currently in the modern world, be it done by people who manufacture bomb belts or uniformed men with high-grade weaponry], therefore it is clear that all Muslim people are evil."

since you are either completely brainwashed, or a drone of those who which to promote hatred across all borders, feel free to not directly address me in your comments. Nothing I say will change their content.

Why must I repeat what has been said here many times before? Should I post a myriad of examples to prove that Muslims are capable of committing terrorist acts or do you not like the idea that Muslims are capable of being terrorists? You seem to willingly misinterpret what I say here...I don't know if I can make it any clearer. To put it simply, I don't believe all Muslims are terrorists, not do I think they're all evil. What I do believe is that Muslims who choose to carry out terrorist acts are no less Muslim than those who choose not to. It comes down to how they interpret their religion. You may accuse me of promoting hatred and being brainwashed, but I've yet to fool myself into carrying out a murderous act against someone I believe is challenging my beliefs. I'm not bound to trivial interpretations you see. I adhere to the law and to reason...and the facts as well as history will show that terrorism is not unheard of in Islam.

^ lol my bad on making it seem like embroiled in this tussle, but I kept myself up reading some other topics.

I'll be happy to dissect your hate propaganda when I wake tomorrow.

In the meantime, please don't belittle my superior prowess with regards to this specific topic with the mention of my "ad hominem" attacks. Maybe I did throw in a couple that were a bit more personal, but I've been calling you an amateur because you clearly are one. What other explanation is there for you not even responding to all the posts where I refuted and explained your claims, you quoting 2 (it might even have been 3) times in a row the same passage after I and one other person had already refuted it, you not responding to anything I said until after I called you out for clearly ignoring my bulletproof posts, and you purposefully deflecting the actual conversation, which is the meaning of the text of the Quran and whether it condones or glorifies violence upon other people for any reason, with superfluous information you clearly had just googled and copy pasted.

Your style is more ad hominem than mine since I at least took into account what you said and you went out of your way to create the illusion that not a single thing you said had been refuted and the things I said were personally vindictive towards you ha ha ha

srsly, straight amateur, deal with it; it's nothing personal.