The Danger of Materialism and The Illusion of Separation

Well you are just making scientific points then and really has nothing to do with philosophy.

Good thread though.

reply to post by TravelerintheDark


I looked up a thread called, What Defines Us As Human by madnessinmysoul and just replied there. Then I searched again and found your post with the exact same title. I did in fact read this several weeks ago and I enjoyed it. Up until your post, I thought dolphins, whales, humans, and monkeys were the only ones.

Originally posted by kro32
Well you are just making scientific points then and really has nothing to do with philosophy.

Good thread though.

I have reached a point in my knowledge where there is no longer a difference between philosophy and science.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

... That's my opinion because attraction to material things whether you are aware of it or not greatly alters your perception of reality. In fact, now that I think about it, it seems like materialism is directly related to all the problems we have on this Earth including but not limited to greed, distrust, control, pride, hate, jealousy, war, etc...

Consider the situation created by a typical compulsive hoarder. While their need for material accumulation may be triggered by mental illness or compensation for some traumatic life event (as opposed to the cultural pressure of attaining status through possession), the outcome is just as negative. Alienation from family is all too common as their reality becomes one of the 'thing' being more valuable than a family member -- and in particular when the 'thing' is under threat of being taken away from them. They would sooner see a family member permanently flee the condition of the home and seek estrangement than reduce the quantity of the hoard in order to prevent this. Material possession also can afford the opportunity, in an albeit twisted way, of exercising 'control' over something by virtue of ownership.

Having access to a forum devoted to compulsive hoarding, it is no coincidence that greed, distrust, control, pride, and hate are themes of discussion as common as the description of the hoarder losing touch with the human impact of valuing possessions above all else.

In my experience, I think that materialism does draw one away from nature and it is a small minority who can identify this process happening to his/herself and willfully correct it (or at least admit to it).

I don't necessarily agree with all the points. I do agree however that a complete retraction from materialism isn't the right path. Nor is complete naturalism.

I feel that the idea of nature that most people have (the one that Zizek argues doesn't exist) is incorrect. There isn't an inch of earth that has been completely vacant of human interaction. Ever. We breathe air in and blow CO2 out and that goes everywhere. Granted that activity of every thing affects everthing by merely being there...

Just think butterfly effect.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Try telling the people that they are under the veil of materialism. One excuse that materialists would spout out is "So what? I am happy with my possessions. I see no evil in this folks. Its my life and my money."

Materialism is a bad thing to worry about but there is no alternative that will make people to quench their identity thirst with. As far as solving their identity crisis, gadgets and metals are the best ones to go as of now.

And who knows after a hundred years it will be a ticket to space that everyone fights for. Ever heard of someone who bought the sun and plenty buying land on the moon? What the hell? Stupid monkeys trying to occupy the cosmos. Certain things never change.

Originally posted by kro32
Humans are not nature they conquer nature, they rule it with an iron fist and comparing us to nature is just silly. We are the most powerful creatures on earth and should not be compared to other creatures.

Peoples true self is self-importance not being one with nature. If you feel you need to bounce around the forest naked with Bambi that is your choice but it is not human nature. Humans were giving the intelligence to rise above nature and the other creatures that inhabit it. You may argue if how we are going about it is the right way or the wrong way but we have outgrown living as part of nature the day we could make fire.

You may think material things are bad but I think they are good. They improve life in countless ways however if you disagree your welcome to do without them. That is a choice your intelligence allows you to make. Other creatures in nature do not have that choice.

One thing that I believe you are failing to understand is where you come from. No matter the belief whether religious (God created man from the dust of the earth) or scientific (humans all came from a biological stew on the Earth) they all agree that we came from the natural world or nature. We were born of it and out of it and are a part of it whether you like it or not. I am an animal and you are an animal. That is the kingdom we reside in. Just because we have self-awareness and are able to utilize this to have dominion over the other animals does not mean we rule nature whatsoever. If we did there would be no earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, droughts, etc.

Recognizing this isn't a call to "bounce around the forest naked" but to take responsibility for our individual actions and the effects these have on nature which in turn have an affect on all of us.

Things, toys, gadgets, products.

These are all things which limit our evolution.

We are put here to produce and contribute, not to be a consumer.

Through producing good works we can make our contribution and leave our mark on the world.

The consumer mentality is a trap which leads us no where. These toys are a waste of time and
merely a distraction put here by the elite. They waste time which can be used on greater things.

I appreciate your post and would like to perhaps point out a couple other things I have been considering lately. We have embraced materialism to the point where we find status in using the latest technology but for most of us we haven't a clue how it all works. This technology serves to separate us more and more from the earth and the natural and more seriously, from one another. We are coming to a point where people are more willing to text than to actually speak to another person. We join groups or gangs to maintain a sense of identity. We create US and THEM to describe ourselves. We attempt to tame nature and domesticate the WILD. We set ourselves APART from nature rather than seeing ourselves as PART of nature. I believe we are seeing the consequences of insecurity of our social identity. We are looking in the wrong place, material objects and possessions will never provide us with a healthy idenitiy or sense of worth.

We are 'spirit being' learning about 'things'. Things are what we see, so it makes sense that we are hypnotized by the bright shinny 'things'. It is not obvious at first glance that there could be more to this world or maybe less to this world than first meets the eye.
The world is seen by the eye. The eye (I) stands between this world of 'things' and what sees this world of 'things'.
The experiencer of the 'things' of the world.
Awareness. The one aware of this moment.
One moment and the awareness of it.
What does now feel like?
That sensation is the only real 'thing' there is.

The mechanisms of agriculture and industry are taken for granted, and we live in our own man-made world, there is always food at the supermarket, there is always a guarantee of surivial, and all that is left, is to own possessions, however, we lose the excitement of survival, we lose the purpose to live.