X-ians and non-X-ians Face the Same Judgement of Works and Sins

God is your judge and the idea that you will be exempt from examination on that Great Day is the road to Hell. You must repent and become converted, or there is no reply that you will be able to give in answer to the accusations laid out before you and all the angels in Heaven.

I wrote this on the sixteenth of June, the first posting in this sub-forum after a five month absence while I was doing a two hour a day, seven day a week internet radio show to discuss religious topics, there as an alternative to posting on forums.
I came to the conclusion of this experience with some strong thoughts on the matter. I dove headlong into making a coherent explanation of those thoughts, into a written form for people to be able to read.
In this process of writing these thoughts, I have not had anyone adequately refute any of them.

Good thing I am an O-ian rather than an X-ian. Fell sorry for the Defensive players, though. Those guys always get screwed.

Originally posted by louieprima
Good thing I am an O-ian rather than an X-ian. Fell sorry for the Defensive players, though. Those guys always get screwed.

Thanks and at least I have one reply to a thread that may turn out to be rhetorical.
I was not trying to be disrespectful, just did not want the title to get cut off from being too long.
I am a Christian, myself.

i have a question to op, do you think humans are born sinners or born innocent ?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Why do you exculde Christs name in your post title?...you seem to be on the side of Right so why abbreviate in that fashion?

I was raised in a Penticostal household and the fear of God was pounded into my head. I would be blamed for things that I didn't do and then be told to "pray for forgiveness" or else, "when Jesus comes he will leave you behind!" I was so scared growing up, not knowing whether I was "ok" or not. If I was alone, I would call the preacher's house and hang up if someone answered, because that would proove that Jesus hasn't come yet.

I was judged by my mother and sister, church members, other family members, and still I am being told constantly that "I am going to hell." To me, only a hateful god would send his creation to hell. My daughter is an atheist, If I was sitting at the gates of heaven and she came knocking, I would let her in. How can god be less loving than a mother? How can a mother send her child to hell?

I always thought that God and Jesus were watching me, and so when I was misunderstood or accused of something that I didn't do and sent to my room to "pray," I knew that GOD knew that I was innocent and that he was on my side. As an adult I have left Xian fear and judgement behind and follow my own drum.

Sometimes my transgressions are revealed to me and I feel terrible and try to place my burdon on a "high alter" and walk away. Othertimes I look at the sky and yell at god, "Why am I so misunderstood?"

I don't know about "Judgement day" and who will be judging and how it will work, but I am not afraid of God and Jesus and Angels, it Xians I fear.

Originally posted by icepack
i have a question to op, do you think humans are born sinners or born innocent ?

I would refer you to the opinions of the scientists who study those things.
My understanding is that they concluded that most of a person's personality is something they are born with.
Someone may be able to correct me on that if I am wrong.
There is an argument people use from the Old Testament that seems to indicate that they are born bad but I think the passage cited is someone talking about themselves, and they are trying to acknowledge their own personal sinfulness.
I would have a problem applying that universally and indiscriminately, for at least one reason which is the sinlessness of Jesus.
I think of the Holy Spirit as the great equalizer so that all can share in salvation.

Hello jmdewey60 thank you for the Boldness to open this thread, I hope it will grow and become beneficial for some.

First let me say I think Man him self has done a pretty good job lately providing scientific evidence of life after a physical death " with all the factual ghost shows ect" - IMHO this should be grounds for some to ponder the Truth about Eternal Life with Jesus.

We will all be judged and every man will bow before the Lord during his judgment (I think it is fair to say that even before going to hell they will have come face to face with the truth).

Maybe all the spirits on the Ghost Hunter are in some kind of Purgatory or maybe just waiting for the final day to be judged and or destroyed, whatever the reason they are where they are and it appears they are trapped.

I know it is written the Church will be judged first (that is to say all who have God's seed planted in them and or Jesus Christ).

It also a truth that all men are judged through out there life (day to day) but for those who have not received the Gospel Grace abounds all the more for they have not been taught to discern from sin and righteousness.

The Fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom - That is to say to perceive God's judgements (day to day) and how great and fearful those judgements can be - They can help you or reprove you for your error and or righteousness.

It is written there are Three Levels of Heaven and Three Levels of Hell, those that have fallen away from the truth surely are in one of the levels of hell (as they live) and will be raised up in the end because they have know the truth and had there name written in the book of life.

Sorry for such broadness here are some examples of judgement (Day to Day).

You get pulled over for speeding do you get a ticket or a warning?

You and your spouse have a heated disagreement do you reconcile and get over it or does it become more complicated over the days / weeks.

Your boss sends you to another location is it closer or are you stuck in traffic for two more hours a day "keep in mind no dive time or gas$" here.

Your are late with your rent is your landlord merciful or are they ugly and treating your safety.

Big one here you were suppose to go to some event or location and for whatever reason you were delayed or unable to attend, afterwards you came to realize that if you had made it your life would of been potentially over.

Truly these are only some Judgements that come to mind but the point here is judgment is Day to Day .
as well, and those "Helping Judgements" are "Testament of God's Salvation" with in ones living life time.

I am not saying by have Jesus Christ in your heart and life all things will be joyful, happy, and prosperous in fact they can be most unpleasant!

I would not be telling you the truth if I did not tell you this as well. I have herd some brethren joke about "when God is not happy, no body is happy" there is real merit with that statement "ie Wisdom".

Cheers

Yes I came here following the Sun UFO links and not to hijack the board with the Gospel but your invite compelled me to comment and share some of the things I have learned, most of them the hard way as it may be. God Bless

I think St.Paul said it best "That I hate, it is that I do" and "That I Love is that I do not" . Judgement, Grace, Loving kindness, Merci and Faithfulness" are so intertwined with the above declaration.

reply to post by windword

. . .the fear of God was pounded into my head.

I was probably subjected to the same sort of thing and I had the feeling of always being watched and judged.
I had certain experiences from the earliest age which taught me to trust in the One who had given me life and that is what I attribute to having never experienced a time when I did not have faith in God. That does not mean I always thought I had such a good relationship with Him since I also had these feelings of not measuring up.
I think I was always able to pick things out of all I was being indoctrinated in that I could use to give me hope and not to give up.
Right now, I am not trying to give anyone the idea that they should just give up themselves.
I want people to not get into a comfort level where they think they are fine.
I would not classify you as one of those.
My message to you would be that if we do face a harsh judgement, a loving God will make provision for use to pass that judgement, if we just try.

reply to post by thomas007

. . .and those "Helping Judgements" are "Testament of God's Salvation" with in ones living life time.

Things happen (I seem to be saying that a lot, lately) and I am witness to some of these judgments and it should, appropriately, strike fear in the hearer of such news and never delight in another's misfortune or to say somehow that person deserved what they had coming. That's sort of the point of the thread. Someone will say, "I believe and so am saved. Those others, not believing, will righteously be destroyed." all with a tinge of laughter in their voice. Who will REALLY go to Hell in this case?

Hello icepack

The Old and New Testament teach us we are born innocent but conceived in Sin "fornication" but that Gods turns his head from the Marriage Bed and we are not judged.

Catholicism teaches there is an age of reason and when a child come to this age they are able to know right from wrong "at by mans understanding". I feel Jesus address this in his statement regarding the little children "it would be better for him to have mill stone around his neck then to harm one of these little one's" That sums up God's view on little Children.

cheers and God Bless

Originally posted by Homedawg
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Why do you exculde Christs name in your post title?...you seem to be on the side of Right so why abbreviate in that fashion?

Read my earlier post.
I am really neurotic that way, about symmetry, but not as bad as Adrian Monk from the tv show.
So the answer is fits nicely into the little box for the thread title.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
In this process of writing these thoughts, I have not had anyone adequately refute any of them.

I don't understand... Are you asking for people to refute what you have said?

If, so, I will. I would have to agree with the statement:

X-ians and non-X-ians Face the Same Judgement of Works and Sins

None of us are facing judgement. No imaginary god is going to judge any of us for our "sins" or for our works in life.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

No imaginary god is going to judge any of us for our "sins" or for our works in life.

That's one of those things that are hard to prove one way or another.
I would ask you the question: would you rather be living amongst people who believe that no matter what they do in this life, they will be rewarded richly in a world to come, after this life;
or people who believe there is a judgement where they will have to give an account of their actions in this world?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I would ask you the question: would you rather be living amongst people who believe that no matter what they do in this life, they will be rewarded richly in a world to come, after this life;
or people who believe there is a judgement where they will have to give an account of their actions in this world?

I don't really care what the people with whom I live believe about judgment. I don't believe in the Judgment and I am a wonderful person to live with. I live and let live, I support individual freedoms AND responsibility. I am generous, thoughtful, caring and I obey the laws, for the most part. I think I would be perfectly happy living amongst people who feel the same way as I do about judgment.

The threat of judgment is not necessary to live a full, loving, generous, wonderful and compassionate life. Nor is it necessary for a person to honor, respect and be kind to their fellow man.

You don't think Christians and other religions folks would suddenly become murderers and rapists if they found out there was not a God, do you? Would you? Is your religion the only thing keeping you from raping and pillaging your neighborhood?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

You don't think Christians and other religions folks would suddenly become murderers and rapists if they found out there was not a God, do you? Would you? Is your religion the only thing keeping you from raping and pillaging your neighborhood?

This may be the dilemma, if there are people who do not believe, there may be some sort of resource they can tap into that provides a bases for behavior which a believer would call moral, though strictly speaking that would be a misapplication of the word. This is where I veer off into true heresy, which is that I believe there is a spirit in the world that comes from God and everyone in this world has access to it. Read the New Testament and where Jesus and God did things"for all mankind". Are some excluded from the gifts, based on philosophical concerns? I would hope not.
Of course you will buy into none of this and maybe I say it for the benefit of others, to not judge people on the wrong bases, professions, verses actions.

reply to post by jmdewey60


To your quote reply (They are held captive by the devil at his will) would be the answer to the murderous comment.

I think also (having a form of Godliness but never coming to the understanding and truth in God The Farther and Jesus Christ The Lord).

One can not get in to heaven on works alone. Now that quote does not imply that man will not be rewarded for his / her good works on earth but that he / she will not get into heaven, eternal life on them.

I do not know a imaginary invisible God, nor do I know a God that does not here, see, or smell but I do know a Living God "Living Spirit" that was sent down from heaven to make his abode with me "that is to posses me" and become one with him. This is the Promise Jesus Christ gave witness to. Now this spirit carries my prayers, petitions, thanks and complaints " to God The Farther. He is also my mediator "lawyer" defending me for my errors / sins.

My judgement and all who have witnessed Christ Jesus The Lord is not the same as some one who has not received the Gospel and or ignored it.

I am just curious to how long one can continue to call certain recurring events in there life as coincidence or is it something greater.

I know Jesus was made manifest in this world so that we would believe on him who sent Jesus and redeem us from our sins. He came to save the first time around "Alpha" but when he returns it will be to judge "Omega".

With all the things going on around the world do they not even consider what time it is?

Maybe they should ponder the Faked Horsemen video on u-tube Yeh not.

but the UFO activity around our sun is truly concerning either they are helping man "DG" or securing the judgement day for him.

Some of my position is to support you!

God Bless

reply to post by thomas007

Some of my position is to support you!

And some is to correct me?
That's fine and I invite criticism. You might want to come back some time and elaborate a bit.
I could probably say something about one of the lines in your post, about no one getting into heaven by works alone.
There is a N.T. quote that says just that but there may be different ways to interpret that.
We need three things and this is what the concept of the trinity came from.
God who gave us His Son and ratified the plan of redemption.
Jesus who did the work of living a sinless life and teaching the Gospel, and then, regardless of his own natural desire for self preservation quietly accepted his own death which was not a nice sort of death.
The Holy Ghost who gives us the promptings to do what is right and to provide a change in our hearts where we have better motivations.
We can never claim a special virtue in our selves to present as evidence of our right to enter Heaven.
This would include a bunch of concepts that we hear and accept as probably being true enough. Unless those concepts have results in changing (converting, in other words) us, then we will never be worthy of passing into eternal life among the saints.

reply to post by thomas007

I think also (having a form of Godliness but never coming to the understanding and truth in God The Farther and Jesus Christ The Lord).

OK but it says truth, in God. . .
What does that mean?
To me, it means, that whatever that person's understanding is, that it was something they just made it up themselves, as opposed to an understanding arrived at through the agency of the Holy Spirit.

reply to post by thomas007

To your quote reply (They are held captive by the devil at his will) would be the answer to the murderous comment.

that would be true of the wrongdoers but the status of being a wrongdoer would be determined based on the doings of wrongs, over some other sort of measurement such as philosophical musings.