Your death penalty and why it is irrelevant.

I have just read a sick post on this website about someone raping a 6 month old baby. Regardless of ANYTHING this is messed up but here is my issue.

Do you think the monster that did this would have been 'put off' by a death penalty?

The answer is no. The monster that can do this is operating on a level where natural right and wrong doesnt exist. Same with a pedophile.

Do you think that given a choice, a pedo would chose to rape or murder or abuse a child? Do you think that given a preference they would chose children. Hell, many gays would choose opporsite sex if they had the choice.

It is the most stupid and ancient belief that a death sentence can cure anything, this is medieval justice and anyone who believes it is a cure to crime is living in a non existent world.

We are wasting billions of currency world wide with prison, the death sentence, parole etc. etc.

1, Someone who kills a child on purpose cannot be cured by 'time served'. They have done it for reasons in their dark mind, not because they know right from wrong and chose wrong.

2. A theif chose to steel because they needed something real bad and a jail sentence (or even a chance of being shot) didnt put them off.

3. A rapist chooses to rape because of something wrong with them, not because they dont know right from wrong,

My point being that a prison sentence is absolutely useless in preventing crime. If there were no prison tomorrow, I doubt there would be an increase in crime, certainly not, an increase in dispicable and sexual crimes, perhaps in numbnut gangbanging but hey, thats only a good thing.

So my point is this, there needs to be a new thinking on certain types of crime, child rape, pedophiles, rape, abduction, these people need to be locked away for ever. They need to be studied and understood. I dont think they should ever be let free because the reasons they did it is not because they know right from wrong, it cos no matter how hard you tell them, they cant help it.

Im not talking a teacher who downloads child porn, do you think that if you gave him the choice, he would say, I wish I fancied hot lesbian models. Well sir, maybe 3 years in prison will sort you out. Oh yes it did, silly me, hahaha.

Stupid if you think that. He cant help it, not saying that is reason to forgive, but understand the crime and prison or death sentence does nothing.

Life in prison should come with study for a new generation of students to try and cure crime.

Incarceration for a cure is a medieval thinking process without the support of a scientific psychological support, understanding that the worst offenders need studying and not killing is the only way to prevent or treat future crimes.

America is a goldmine of study subjects which could lead to a world class crime prevention program, instead, you just lock more and more up and let them out after meaningless time periods.

But its not just the US, its every stupid country in the world.

Here is an example of English law, you can plead guilty to manslaughter and the Judge is limited to the sentence it can pass? What about the merits of the case. OK, so technically it is manslaughter but I sentence you to life in a medical research institution cos you are not right in the head?

Our countries legal systems need to grow up and realise some pretty important stuuf, especially around the sick and mentally ill pedo's and child murderers who should NEVER walk the streets until a medical condition and cure is perscribed, a prison sentence does bot cure these sicko's

Sorry to ask the obvious - and I do agree with you - but - what do you suggest?

Raping a 6 month old?
That's death in my book.

Period.

I've come up with some other 'creative 'suggestions on how to deal with pedophile rapists - like branding them on the forehead like the animals they are - but you wouldn't believe the hue and cry that created.

I also came up with an idea (well...) for 'Pedophile Island' - again - too many just didn't 'get it'...

So, what do you suggest?

peace

reply to post by MisterBurns


Hi there MisterBurns,

I am somewhat confused by your thread because it seems to contradict itself at some point but anyway..

I agree with the death penalty being an strange sollution. An eye-for-an-eye concept just doesn't resonate with me. On the other hand, it doesn't seem fair to let honest people pay for the cost of keeping somebody like that locked up because we have morality issues.

I say, find those sweatshops, all those underage children working 18 hours a day in poor conditions. Take 'm in, exchange them for the scum you've got and legalise the sweatshop owner's business....double win!!



Peace

PS: oh, for all the sweatshop owners.....airconditioning!! Problem solved.

reply to post by silo13


I say shoot them in the head save bundles of money that way. Murderers, rapist and pedo's. spend 37 cents and shoot them in the head.
Therian

reply to post by silo13


I like your suggestions especially the branding, however, can you deny that justice sometimes is imperfect? I cannot. What about those convicted falsely? Pedophile Island is "better" for this reason.... just a thought.

I understand why should we pay to keep them. But lets just say we are not living in a Nazi germany where they send thousands to the 'showers'. We are locking them up anyway.

My point being, an 'eye for an eye' is great, and prison as it stands justifies that, cos if you take a life, and dont get the death penalty (which probably 99,9% dont) then there will always be a victim (family of crime) robbed of justice who even 30 years later, (i would) seek revenge.

My point is, that a prison sentence, a death sentence or anything, is not a deterrent for certain crimes and we should acknowledge that and address the issue. Hiding it, which is what we are doing, is really, really pathetic and yet as modern day civilised nations we accept it and move on.

So next time you hear on the news, a recently release child molester kills innocent 6yo boy, dont blame the sick mofo, blame the system you voted for who thought that a 2 year prison sentence could 'cure' a sick #.

Its medievil, I have flu, send me to prison for 2 years, release me and see if i get it again.

I am depressed and suicidal, lock me up for 2 years with no access to anything to kill myself, release me and see if i dont just jump off the bus station roof.

Wake up prison, we are a modern society that needs a modern judicial system and yes, we may have to pay for it. If we dont (but we pay to wage wars in afghanistan) then we are all guilty of released sex offenders re committing crimes.

Originally posted by Therian
reply to post by silo13

 

I say shoot them in the head save bundles of money that way. Murderers, rapist and pedo's. spend 37 cents and shoot them in the head.
Therian

So you will spend 37c forever, but for each of those 37c a child or innocent person has died. So your 37c is a life plus 37c. I hope you never know one of those 'lives'.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

I like your suggestions especially the branding, however, can you deny that justice sometimes is imperfect? I cannot. What about those convicted falsely? Pedophile Island is "better" for this reason.... just a thought.

Agreed, one reason why in the thread(s) I emphasized positive proof, DNA convictions, witness proof, etc because I do agree the 'system' does not always work. On the other hand? Taking a chance with children? Wow, the balance their is surely on the side of the babies...or it should be.

I'm always up for suggestions - I hope the OP has some!

Thank you

peace

Originally posted by MisterBurns
They need to be studied and understood.

That line alone is worth a S&F. I never thought I'd see anyone on this site say that.

Yes, there are real reasons people do this. Those in power do not want the masses to work out why they do this. It involves extreme evil and those in power would prefer everyone to accept the simple excuse of "mental illness", which doesn't explain anything enough for people to understand these things.

Both myself and my best friend can identify paedophiles immediately. It has little to do with auras or eyes, but more on "facial energies".

Unfortunately, before these studies commence, there are a few evil people in positions of power that need to be removed first.

reply to post by MisterBurns

I understand why should we pay to keep them. But lets just say we are not living in a Nazi germany where they send thousands to the 'showers'. We are locking them up anyway.

For you to even hint there is any comparison between baby rapists and the Jews who were victims of mass genocide is unconscionable.

Where in the hell are you going with this (thread) line of thought???

peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by MisterBurns

 

Hi there MisterBurns,

I am somewhat confused by your thread because it seems to contradict itself at some point but anyway..

I agree with the death penalty being an strange sollution. An eye-for-an-eye concept just doesn't resonate with me. On the other hand, it doesn't seem fair to let honest people pay for the cost of keeping somebody like that locked up because we have morality issues.

I say, find those sweatshops, all those underage children working 18 hours a day in poor conditions. Take 'm in, exchange them for the scum you've got and legalise the sweatshop owner's business....double win!!

Peace

PS: oh, for all the sweatshop owners.....airconditioning!! Problem solved.

edit on 10-7-2011 by operation mindcrime because: Aaarghhh spelling

my thoughts exactly

Why don't we just give them a time out...?
I say kill them and if they live kill them again.

You want my 'options'.

First up, I believe we, the working populace of a country should have to pay for criminals to be incarcerated, by the way, I also believe in paying for a larger police force and judicial and I also believe in capping lawyers fee's. After all, a lawyer is only there because we have s justice system, and in order to operate they should be forced to do at least a percentage of time for those on legal aid.

So all the 'good' lawyers will go elsewhere? For a while maybe, maybe not, where will they all go? It will only mean the rich dont get preferential service anyway but after a few years the equilibrium will return.

So once its 'capped' you get a more level playing field.

Next is the nature of crime and the plea bargaining and the 'pigeon holing' of certain crimes. We need to get rid of manslaughter, murder, gbh, abh, attempted murder, attempted manslughter etc etc. Each crime has to be taken for its merits.

Eg. someone who robs someone in the street and then repeatedly jumps on their head until they are dead, is manslaughter becuase it is not premeditated....WRONG.

Next is where the government or local council needs to take ownership, burgalry carries sentence to try and 'put off' would be burglaries. In line with this, the perpetrator shoudl be rehabilitated to be given a chance of work or else they will be released with no options. You cant just blame (all of) them when the rob again, what else will they do? Local area's should also monitor statistics, I know 2 crime waves in my neighbourhood was by one boy with a heroin addiction. He was released and robbed again then overdosed on heroin from his proceedings, lucky break for the neighbors you may say, not to him mum and dad and he robbed us twice and lived over the back fence, i dont thank for his death, just wish someone had treated his addiction and given him a chance and yes, I would happily pay an extra 1c in the dollar for it.

Then you have to look at a controversial demographic. Those lifted from 3rd world african countries accepted as refugees in a modern society. I am not being a racist here but some of these, Somalia perhaps are one generation away from tribal warfare where hacking the head of someone was OK. You bring them to a modern society and baulk when they stab someone. Education here, be it enclosed so they cant stab anyone or in their own countries before they come here.

Then the sickos I mentioned earlier, I dont have an answer, I am not a doctor but 2 things i will say, 1. There is no cure at the moment for pedophilia 2. Time served in prison does not sure them.

So yes, I will pay money to keep them locked away whilst research is done, justice is examined and cures are found, if there is no cure, then there should be NO release, but we need to look for a cure and stop thinking that incarceration will cure people...its a stupid mindset.

reply to post by MisterBurns


So spending 37cents to kill a murderer instead of spending ?? thousand a year to keep him/her alive is bad? So lets say he spends 30 years then gets out and he kills more people. You would be wishing we used that 37cent bullet. Other then that your post doesn't make sence. Why would me knowing the murderer change the fact that he is a murderer? Or if I knew the victim? If I knew the victim I would offer to shoot the gun..
Therian

reply to post by MisterBurns


You want a complete overhaul of the judicial and prison system because you are not happy with what we already have.....but you are not prepared to come forth with any ideas of your own?

Most of those, if not all, on death row have been there for years before they are put out of their misery. All of them are profiled, some to a lesser degree than others because it's not enforced in prison to be subjected to psychologists and psychiatrists. You can't force a criminal to talk.

Every criminal knows the difference between right from wrong but don't think they'll ever get caught while committing the crime and when they do almost of them initially deny it.

The judicial system is not perfect but it sure beats not having one at all. In fact, many laws need to be tightened because I'm sick of criminals getting off on a technicality while others should'nt even be in jail then you have those on early release committing the same offence or even more henious crimes.

I'm not the most comfortable person where the death penalty is concerned only because approx 10% turn out to be proven innocent......but there are those horrible cases where the death penalty has to apply. When a man rapes and murders an innocent young 16 year old girl....hell yeah....death penalty! Now had the father of this young girl killed the perpetrator himself; set him free. There is such a case many years ago in Australia where the father did exactly that and got 24 to life. There are other criminals who have done far worse and got less than 13 years but out in 8 because of good behaviour. Some real nasty 1st class criminals get years off their sentences on appeal.

Yeah, we need to overhaul the judicial system alright. We need to increase the sentencing, tighten up all the loop holes these criminals and their lawyers use; take away some of their prison privilages & rights until they have earned them.

Oh and if you say there is double standards or contradiction, we dont give the death penalty to even 1 percent of criminals, so those saying kill everyone, are not even answering the problem.

We dont kill everyone, and those we do are too sick to care, it doesnt put people off cos they are too sick to care also, and you complain about the cost of incarcerating people so you let them out to kill you and your family and friends again.

So how do you argue, a 37 cent bullet requires a victim. That victim could be your daughter. Would you rather pay 1 cent in the dollar or euro, or 1p in every pound, request overseas military cutbacks, request less foreign aid and concentrate on the mess at home. Overcrowding prisons etc.

What i am saying is, address the problem, address the cause and not the symptom. Its simple root cause analysis,

Ask why 7 times and you will get the answer, you may get it after a few questions. Cause not symptom.

Why did he kill the boy

Cos he would be in trouble and locked up.

Why would he be locked up

Cos he buggered the boy and it illegal

Why did he bugger the boy if he knew it was illegal

Cos he always fancied it

Why did you fancy it

Well i dont know, its just in my head

Even though you know its wrong

I dont program my own brain

But you have been thinking it for 30 years.

I have managed to supress it until now.

Why until now?

The thought of humiliating my family

Not prison?

No prison would prevent me doing what my brain says.

Is that why you downloaded all the pictures?

I didnt want to hurt anyone, I just though this was a victimless crime.

But you were locked up before for indecent photos in a swimming changing room.

Prison didnt stop the thoughts. 5 years inside only made them worse because all I had was my disturbed thoughts.

So you were released an then what?

I just needed to act on my fantasy, i needed to feel it for real

Even though you knew it was illegal?

The law doesnt prevent the voices, and no doctor will or can help.

Oh and I dont harbour those thoughts at all, Im just saying from a third party perspective and potential victim.

I am offering suggestions, the system needs more focus, never mins this 'al quaeda' terrorism noncence, the biggest threat we all face is from cars on the road, then somewhere is being a victim of crime and much lower is terrorism.

So nonsense to all this money spent on the military, the biggest problem is already on our doorstep and we believe that a draconian 'sentence' prevents crime.

My answer is to keep these people incarcerated until we treat the problem, if the problem is they are wired wrong and cannot be treated, then by all means, cull them. Your death sentence is a punishment, and that is a joke.

But do not think that a death sentence or prison sentence reduces certain types of crime, its naive and is causing a huge waste of money and missing an opportunity to try and understand crime instead of the blind belief that encareation will prevent and keep us safe.

reply to post by MisterBurns


If it was my daughter the guy wouldn't have a chance to get to jail. I understand there will always be more criminals, Study doesn't prevent them from doing wrong so eventually one will hurt someone close. However letting them sit in jail for 10,20 or 30 years Doesn't give criminals a reason not to do wrong. We have people commiting crime just so they can go to jail so they can get health care. Prison is not a sentence anymore. Death would be and it would solve allot more problems then spending even more money on a Murderer.
What you are suggesting is to study it and find a cure. Great a cure is fine but wouldn't you have to know you was a killer before you could get the cure. How many people out there started as just a bully and found it is easy to escalate into more and more violent patterns. How many would willingly go get the cure when the things they are doing gives them a sence of power and freedom. So you find a cure that serves 5 out of a hundred people. Now those people who have been cured won't kill. Lets say the other 95 do kill then get caught and get the cure. Well great they are cured and won't do it again But they still did it before and now their cured. Morally what right do you have to lock them up? If there is a cure then it is sickness and not their fault. Sound like a get out of jail for free card. In the end the murderer goes free, taxpayer no longer have to pay for lockup. But wait fathers have still lost there children. Thats easy to if the murderer got away with it then the father can kill him anyways and get cure afterwards.
I am sorry but there is just to many faults in your post. The same could be said with mine of course my solution would make people think twice. If you put a bullet the head of a murderer then they start to realize that they to will get the same. and will be less prone to escalate into such things..
Therian

Originally posted by Therian
reply to post by MisterBurns

 

So spending 37cents to kill a murderer instead of spending ?? thousand a year to keep him/her alive is bad? So lets say he spends 30 years then gets out and he kills more people. You would be wishing we used that 37cent bullet. Other then that your post doesn't make sence. Why would me knowing the murderer change the fact that he is a murderer? Or if I knew the victim? If I knew the victim I would offer to shoot the gun..
Therian

Not at all, what i am saying is, we need to improve our thinking on prison and sentences. The current mindset is that 30 years in prison will cure a murderer. What I am saying is that the person killed for a reason and 5, 10 or 50 years in prison will not change that reason. Investigate the reason, assess the cause and base the sentence and type of sentence on that reason.

If you are going to go down the route of spending billions every year on incarceration, take each 'criminal' and look at the cause and then affect a solution,

Hoodlum - lack of education, no morality, no future - education, re habilitation, support

Revenge murderer - lost someone important, needs mental treatment and re habilitation

Junkies - lock them up for a period but treat them and rehabilitate them

Rapist - serious issues, not likely to be 'cured' by incarcertion - study indefinately, monitor

ETC.

Do you know what i think will be the worst country on earth to live in within 20 years...you know it too, its a cess pool of violent and dangerous people, armed to the teeth with access to a nuclear arsenal, it suffering from a financial crisis with an immigration problem, a fear of terrorism, drugs and violence on a scale of nothing like anywhere else on earth. And...it calls itself a superpower.

For all its morality, it couldnt even agree on free health care, why? Cos thousands of rich people in the medical industry would lose a monopoly on the sick and injured.

Guess what else wouldnt pass....a free a fair judicial system, why? Cos thousands of rich people in the legal industry and thousands of rich people would lose a monopoly on an unfair and draconian legal industry.

You think that communism and terrorism is a problem.....you are living in a very quickly crumbling land of no opportunity.

reply to post by MisterBurns


I think we could save alot more $$$ if we stop putting small petty crime criminals in jail (house detention instead) and also those who owe child support or unpaid parking fines.

However, the prison system is run by corporation and worth $$$ and lots of it.