You are a segment of my imagination!!

Originally posted by confreak
reply to post by Therian

 

If you haven't noticed this is related to philosophy, if you can't even prove whether everything is not a figment of your imagination, then how would that effect your actions? If you believe non of this was real, would you behave differently, which is one of the questions I asked, and I related that to the idea that no one can prove the world as real.

The stimulus is real. How you interpret the signals defines your perception but it does not change anything about the signal itself, right?

Peace

reply to post by Therian


You can imagine all of this, can't you, or are you suggesting you can't?

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Yes, I agree, but by real we are talking about real within the imagination, just like something is true within a dream which necessarily isn't outside.

Some dreams you are fearful of something which you would never be fearful of in real life, the stimuli is so real that it gets your heart pumping, you can feel pain, you can start sweating, you can feel love, you can smell, you can taste
"umm delicious" etc..

reply to post by confreak


In theory I am not doing anything. It seems to be all in your head. However if I was me I would imagine that pinching myself would work. I would simply imagine myself as a person who could not feel pain and give it a shot. It follows of course that after I screamed out like a school girl. I would just have to tell myself it was all in my imagination. Or I could simply figure that my Imagination is trying to trick me into believing its all real so I won't have to face the truth of this lonely existence.
Point being everything we know can be debated as real or Imagined. If I could prove That I was really Imagining everything I would not change. The facts are easily stated my imagination has gotten my nose broken in the past. Knowing that it was all in my Imagination does not mean my Mind won't allow it to happen again. In fact considering It took so long to figure out this world was all fake, How would I know the place I woke up in wasn't just a secondary imaginary place and so on.
Not so sure I am saying this correctly. My mind understands things which are filtered through my sences. If my Imagination was the creator of all things around me. Then it is my mind that has decided what my body can deal with. Pain allows us to know we are alive. If I learned that I imagined all things around me I would not change how I regularly act for two reasons. First is the easiest, For some reason I set these laws and rules up for a reason the people as well all here to give me some form of stimuli I don't think changing would be fair to them. Second Knowing I formed this place from my Imagination doesn't nessesarily change the rules while I am here. So robbing a bank can still get me shot or put in prison. My mind might tell me otherwise but some how my imagination seems strong enough to pull it off considering it has been lying to me the whole time...

Therian

Originally posted by confreak
Yes, I agree, but by real we are talking about real within the imagination, just like something is true within a dream which necessarily isn't outside.

real within the imagination.....hmmm....I don't know if that will stick. Sort of like a cartoon character being alive within a cartoon.

Some dreams you are fearful of something which you would never be fearful of in real life, the stimuli is so real that it gets your heart pumping, you can feel pain, you can start sweating, you can feel love, you can smell, you can taste
"umm delicious" etc..

I believe within a dream it is the imagination of stimuli. An experience that has yet to be processed. There is no actual external input while dreaming, is there?

Granted, if I dip your finger in a glass of water while you are sleeping..........your sensory system will make you pee your pants. But I doubt that this is what you are talking about.

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

real within the imagination.....hmmm....I don't know if that will stick. Sort of like a cartoon character being alive within a cartoon.

That's my point, what is "real" and wouldn't the definition of real be defined by the imagination, rather than the actual real, where the definition of real is different.

For example in a dream you might be able to fly, in that dream it is real, but in real 'real' it is imagination.

I believe within a dream it is the imagination of stimuli. An experience that has yet to be processed. There is no actual external input while dreaming, is there?


Granted, if I dip your finger in a glass of water while you are sleeping..........your sensory system will make you pee your pants. But I doubt that this is what you are talking about.

Peace

edit on 10-7-2011 by operation mindcrime because: (no reason given)

Foreign inputs doesn't make a difference, dreams are still very real with the dream, but when you wake up it is a different story, as I said, something which is true inside the dream, isn't necessary true outside. So what real inside, isn't necessarily true outside.

Originally posted by confreak
That's my point, what is "real" and wouldn't the definition of real be defined by the imagination, rather than the actual real, where the definition of real is different.

Now we are just switching definitions. Sure imagination can be called real and real can be called imagination but it really doesn't change anything about the state of those two. Kinda like calling a bagel a pretzel and vice versa. It really doesn't alter the taste of either.

Foreign inputs doesn't make a difference, dreams are still very real with the dream, but when you wake up it is a different story, as I said, something which is true inside the dream, isn't necessary true outside. So what real inside, isn't necessarily true outside.

There is nothing in the subconscious besides what you acquired by conscious means...

Peace

Are we talking figments, fragments or segments?

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
There is nothing in the subconscious besides what you acquired by conscious means...

From this given, if you'd lock a new born baby in a padded room for the rest of it's life. No stimuli what so ever. Will it eventually dream of becoming a rockstar? Will it dream of being able to fly?

(I realise that this example is actaully pretty horrific and I'd like to emphasize that I have absolutly no plans in "field testing" this theory)

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


That is a great question, what would the baby dream about? Is her dreams simply complete darkness? Just thinking about it makes me depressed.

reply to post by Death_Kron

It's the ability of realising you have the power to literally create your life thats simply a mind blowing concept. Once you learn that, you come out of the dream - you simply start creating it.

Got to enjoy life for what it's worth (what is it bloody worth?)

I'm not talking about careers, relationships etc Anyone with average/above average intelligence can make a life for themselves, but that's where they stop.

Unless someone reading this has felt what I'm talking about then they probably think I'm losing it.

Then again, I could be

absolutely

its called existentialism my friend

OK, now how could you imagine I would answer like this?

reply to post by LazyGuy


You just did.

First if everything you think is you imagination and not real, i want to know how big you imagination is, and what the limit of it.
Do you think someone that so smart creating advance technology few hundreds years from now is only your imagination or his/her real achievement?

Is it when you stop your imagination even for less than a second, your "figment" of imagination still doing their activity?
Imaginations is something that you can control. Do you think you can control what 6 millions people in this world and what they doing?

But lets forget about that, and just imagine things, everything, to activate the imagination for 3 months, sit without sleeping, eating and drinking and see how long this imagination will stand.

Originally posted by confreak
Well, let's see if anyone can crack this one,

Sorry, but I can see cracks in "...this one, ..." already... :-)

can you prove to me that you are not figment of my imagination?

Sorry, but I cannot 'prove' anything to you, at best I can only help or guide you to realise that 'proof' is whatever convinces your mind of "Truth" or "Validity, that aside, there is no evidence that you have an imagination, the "Rock of Solipsism" argument says that a man can never Know that another man even has a mind, much less it's contents...

How are you suppose to prove to yourself that you are not imagining the world?

I'm afraid you fundamentally cannot have that certainty..... Rene des'Cartes wrote that ...all I may be certain of in this world is that "I am a thinking thing"... Cogito Sum - I think. Iam. (This was later revised as Cogito Ergo Sum - I think. therefore Iam.) His Caveat to this conclusion was, and is today, known as the "Evil Demon" senario.
That is... even though I may be certain that I am thinking, I have no way to tell if what I am thinking has been 'somehow' put there by an Evil Demon, no way to decipher if your entire 'mental picture of reality' wasn't being fed to a brain in a jar by a crazy scientist...

So, I guess that means that... All that you can really be certain of, is that you don't know you aren't imagining the world.!.... :-)

Why would you care if you look like cupcake, if you can't even prove whether the world is real or just a figment of your imagination.

Only 'Vanity' cares if you look like a 'cupcake'..

Why would you care enough to not shoot if you can't even prove whether the person you are shooting is a figment of your imagination.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4e2a3f1f0610.jpg[/atsimg]

Errrrrrr....... I think.....you got me there! But my advise (with that gun anyway..) is ... you can't be sure, but go for it anyway...

If you knew the world was just a dream,just a figment of your imagination, would you act the same way you act now?

I act the way I act in computer games because I believe them to be inconsequential artificial (mental) environments....

However, because of my personal perspective life path, I believe this world to be a place of Karma-generation, where every thought, sound and action have ripple effects though-out reality and ultimately, consequences for the originator of those ...thoughts,sounds and actions....Thus I act in this 'world' the way I do....

All the 'evil' 'bad', 'lazy', etc etc. people act the way they do because they do not think that their ...thoughts, sounds, and actions.... have any consequences at all, not in this life, nor in any later life.?

What you seem to be asking people at the end there, is ... " If you wouldn't be held responsible, would you be bad?"

to which I would reply, ..." IAM responsible, for ALL that IAM, that is why IAM what IAM."

Peace love and Light...

;-)

Philo.

Good thread! My kind of stuff!

Thought this was befitting here. Hope you don't mind but I wanted to share what I wrote when I was 15 yrs of age.

All my life seems like a big dream
Everything happens but seems unreal.
During your life you dream
But what do your dreams fulfill?

My life seems like a dream
In which I haven't waked up yet.
In my life , i want a lot of things
But the things , I just can't get.

My big long dream goes on and on.
Before you know it, my life has gone.

Am I in another world just dreaming?
Or...am I really alive?
When ever will I awaken?
Or when am I going to die?

Oct 28, 1976
-------------------

We are a figment of God's imagination. I'm sure some of you here have heard me say this before and I don't mind repeating this transcendental knowledge... Infinity and nothing are the same thing. It is a paradox that existed before creation. This unstable concept desired to become stable, and now here we are. We are the attempted resolution of the impossible to resolve paradox.

It is a systematic attempted resolution. This infinite instability had only one avenue to go to try to become stable. That is awareness. Now that infinity/nothing became aware, it is free to explore itself in an eternal quest for stability. That was the first step in solving the infinite problem. Awareness starts out small, like a child learning its surroundings. Awareness grows and grows and grows becoming aware of more infinite/nothing concepts. It becomes more aware of what it is as infinity and/or nothing.

So here we are. We are aware. Most of us don't know what exactly they are aware of, but this is it. We are aware of nothing that is infinity. All we have is illusory separating and stemming from this one infinite fact. We are just the expression of infinity/nothing trying to figure out why it is so unstable so that we can help try to make it stable by resolving it. Resolution is what is known as unconditional love or complete destruction. You can either enjoy this opportunity of discovery and love every minute of it, or you can unwisely believe that the paradox is actually resolvable, and you can help destroy everything that exists. In the end, you'll realize that you caused yourself a lot of unnecessary grief because nothing isn't just nothing. Nothing is infinity.

reply to post by maung


I don't think you understand, there is imagination which you can control, and there is imagination which you can't, and then there is imagination where you can partially control.

Think about it.

No one is the figment of anyone's imagination, reality may be complex, but it would be silly to think none of us exist outside one another..We are all beings going through a crazy ride called life, and when it ends well it ends.

reply to post by confreak


If some imagination i cant control and that imagination is still around long after i passed away, so that imaginations are real things that can sustain themself either im there or not or not even ever exist.

So is it me or that imaginations thats the real imagination?