Originally posted by FredT

Sminkey it would not be the same without your Euro Baiting.

- well, for as long as it's just a bit of fun, eh?

Anyhoo, still managed to pull your collective cojones out of fire. Otherwise I would need a German translation program to read your post......

- Now Fred, you know as well as I that the real reason you guys got into it was that it pulled all of our 'cojones' out of the fire.

It might have actually been done 'over here' but, from you point of view, better that than anything needing doing eventually on or near your soil 'over there' or suffering the effects of a nazi Europe or a soviet one huh?

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Who had the best bombers during WW2 though they didnt use Jet engines? Not counting the Horton which really had no effect on the war.

The B-17 and then the B-29 were top notch bombers for WW2

- They were, particularly the B29, that was a very advanced piece of kit, I agree.

There was a very advanced German project which the French managed to stall long enough to stop the Germans using, the Heinkel He 274.

This was possibly the most advanced piston engined bomber of the lot. True it had no effect on the war (thanks to the French) but it was not a paper plane. It existed.

We know this because the two examples actually flew after the war for the French as the Ateliers Aeronautiques des Suresnes (Farman AAS 01a and 01b).

Like the B29 it had turbocharged piston engines, a properly pressurised cockpit. It performance was extremely good (better than a B29?) and achieved speeds of approx 600km/h (375mph) @ 11 000m (approx 36 000ft) and had a ceiling of 15 000m (49 200ft).

(I can't give a load comparison as I can't find a useable one....the reference I have gives load/range figures rather than an outright xx 000lbs of bombs load. I am pretty sure the He 277/274 craft were similar to a B29/Lancaster with a max around the 13 000lb - 20 000lb mark)

The B17 was always criticised because those poor sods went all that way to carry and drop (as the RAF song of the time went) a teeny weeny bomb (load).

Mind you the comparison between the effectiveness of an end of war radar equiped Lancaster group against a B 29 group would not have been quite so clear cut.

The B29 was new and at the start of it's development cycle, true but the Lanc was fully developed by then.

As Le May found out just after the war in his famous post WW2 exercise, many American pilots couldn't find the ass with both hands at that point.



[edit on 14-8-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I hate to be a jerk, but since this has turned into a national dick measuring contest I'll whip it out.

- Whooooaaa there mate! Tackle in pal! This is an exercise in some gentle 'tail pulling' and correcting a few misconceptions whilst we do it......you keep your 'boys' back in their base, huh?!

So Britain gave us radar- I suppose at least they would have had a sporting chance at not getting microwaved then if we'd decided that nuclear conquest was more appealing than rebuilding the rest of the "first world", but I got a hunch we could have gotten our bombs through .

- Yeah, but the thing is Vagabond your A-bomb program would never have gotten going at all if it weren't for the Brit decision to evacuate all those european physics guys (who are the ones actually worked out, designed and made the damned things).

It's OK Britain, we love ya, and as soon as the ACLU bans the Stars and Bars, you'll have the best lookin flag on earth.

- That's nice.

Err...Damn ACLU if only I had my way with them. Who gave the British and the French money after WWII to rebuild their infrastructure and economy.. do I hear a US of A. Who gave Britain all of those military weapons ships vehicles and airplanes all for free during the war that's right the US of A did that too. I’m not even going to mention the cold war ok. So you see without the Us help after WWII Europe would have remained in rubbles. But this is off topic we should stick with jets I apologize.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Err...Damn ACLU if only I had my way with them. Who gave the British and the French money after WWII to rebuild their infrastructure and economy.. do I hear a US of A.

- Just like our 'olde' europe money originally built America Westy? Then there was what we paid during the war (see below) ....and just like how right now you run on 'our' credit notes?

Who gave Britain all of those military weapons ships vehicles and airplanes all for free during the war that's right the US of A did that too.

- 'Gave' my 'eye'.

America had almost everything of value the UK had for that help. Don't get the wrong idea, we needed it and we are/were grateful for that assistance but do not wander about under the belief that 'we' got it for free. The USA cleaned out the UK gold reserve and took several chunks of prime real estate, you got paid be sure of that.

Given the situation I don't even begrudge the gouging considering everyone (including many of our own) for quite a time thought the UK was finished, I wouldn't have given anyone credit in those circumstances either.....but particularly for some of the islands (how valuable has Guam been to the USA, hmmm?) you got paid OK.

I’m not even going to mention the cold war ok.

- Yes best not to considering the way the USA manipulated certain industries to maintain a lead and stop competition - particularly from the UK. That wasn't the act of a great friend, was it? How much wealth did that rob us of?

So you see without the Us help after WWII Europe would have remained in rubbles.

- Westy things just are not as simple as you always paint them. America acts in her own interests, hopefully these coincide with other people but the USA is not the permanent selfless benefactor you continually imply.

But this is off topic we should stick with jets I apologize.

Ditto.



[edit on 14-8-2004 by sminkeypinkey]