The Delusion of Free Will

this is my take on free will:

free will is like a multiple choice test: yes...you can choose A, B, C or D...but you can ONLY choose from A, B, C or D. You can't choose L or V or W. So...is it really free will if the choices are limited to the Teacher's parameters? If all answers lead back to the same lesson...what choice is there, really?

this is something that has been really digging at me lately. I'm wide awake these days...more so than i can handle at times. The coincidences are way too frequent to be coincidences anymore. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

i know with all that's in me that everything is predestined. everything that happens is for a reason. this was all planned out before i hit the "go" button. i just fail to see it, most times. but i really do believe that there is no free will. free will is a delusion of the ego to help draw us away from awareness and consciousness.

there are no coincidences...there are no choices...there only is.

reply to post by ICEKOHLD


You really don't understand the concept of free will. The fact of the matter is, your choices are limited to every possibility within reason, however, the idea is that you CAN choose what you do. The idea is that you HAVE the ability to choose between A, B, C, or D.

If we had a God who does not allow free will, you would always have to pick A.

Always. No exceptions.

again...that's really not free will. ultimately...we all come to the same conclusion.

Originally posted by ICEKOHLD
free will is a delusion of the ego to help draw us away from awareness and consciousness.

Actually, that would be determinism.

Anyway, try living your life based on that worldview of yours for a while. See where that gets you.

Also, you might enjoy this thread.

(As for whether "will" is truly "free" or what that even means, the jury is of course out.)

I believe that we do have freewill to an extent, but that doesn't mean we have can do ANYTHING we want... we have human limitations. Its kinda paradoxical. We have freewill to act within our means how we choose.

Every choice within every moment in your choice.. every time. Acknowledge this!
Your conscious choice making progress is the evidence.

You have to be become aware of your free-will to fully embrace it.

this goes deeper than just thoughts and words to me. this goes down to the very Core of my existence...Him. so to me, there is no free will. if i am His tool....His vessel...His messenger...His child...than i have no free will. i can think that i have the freedom to choose whatever but He has gone before me and rigged the game. made it impossible for me to win. ergo i have no free will. i am His.

reply to post by Lionhearte


I agree. You have free will to an extent, but are bound by certain fundamental restrictions. The laws of physics for example: I want (or "will") to teleport as a means of everyday travel, but cannot (thus "restricted"). We are also subject to cause and effect for situations that we have not "willed" or chosen. I do not believe in predestination, but I do think that our choices are restricted. (To lead us to a certain outcome- that I don't know).

reply to post by ICEKOHLD


You might enjoy the thoughts of Sam Harris on the subject - he holds a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA. He is also a well published writer.

Sam Harris on The Illusion of Free Will

I've said it before, I'm gonna say it again



The topic of free will is always of interest to folks because there is no answer.
The reason we can't answer it is because we can only speculate on what it is we're speculating on.

That is to say, we cannot even answer with any reasonable certainty, what is mind.
Still, at any rate, if one wants to be in the know in terms of neurobiology, it is as good a place as any. I recommend VS Ramachandran.

For my two cents, I say, to answer the question of free will, simply ask yourself, "What situation could possibly arise where you wouldn't choose what you must?"

semanticjokealert

Ultimately we are bound by our human brains and mankinds historical archives of experience.

The ancient Greek philosopher Protagoras wrote:

Man is the measure of all things: of things which are, that they are, and of things which are not, that they are not.

Even with the freest of Will How can we make a choice that lies outside of human experience?

Here on ATS many of us do believe in Alien abductions going there and back but its not an exact science and flirting with insanity, there is always the risk of seeing too much.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Think about your response for a minute. Are you male? Are you human? Did you choose your parents or the geographic location you were born? Maybe planet? How bout' your life experiences with the other people and places you have been limited too? In other words the choices you think you make may not be the "Freewill" choices you believe you are making. If indeed you have freewill, then why aren't you rich with all the trimmings?

reply to post by ICEKOHLD


Maybe you don't but I do.
I don't mind pretending I do either. A B C D as choices and combinations of choices sometimes offer enough complexity that out of nowhere it seems all of a sudden an X Y or Z appears.

To sound stupid I will say that against all available information, of which as you point out there seems to be an endless variety, the decision to believe in free will screams out FREE WILL. And that/ after living for a goodly period of my life as an earlier poster suggested, not believeing in free will, is all I need to anchor myself in freedom.

Once again the surest way for one to not have free will is to think that one doesn't.

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by ICEKOHLD

 

Once again the surest way for one to not have free will is to think that one doesn't.

unless, of course, free will is a delusion. so then...each side will say they other is wrong. perhaps thinking you have free will is a coping mechanism for feeling out of control? perhaps there is free will and i have surrendered mine to wrong thinking?

all i know is that i feel i have no free will and yet feel as though my life is better than ever. better than when i thought i did have free will. y'all make it sound so bad to "surrender" your free will or seem to think that living a life not believing in free will is boring or more limited than yours. i suppose it's all a matter of perspective. i feel i have no free will and that is fine by me. life is more peaceful now that i've quit fighting my destiny.

The OP is half right, imo, free will is a delusion, but not having anything to do with choices.

There is in reality no free will because the choices we make are not based on our conscious decision or choice, but something ultimately that we had nothing to do with: that is what drives us to make the choice in the first place!

For example: If you put before a child 4 portions of food and ask him to choose what he wants to eat, his choice is pre-determined by something that has nothing to do with free will, eventhough on the surface it seems he can choose whtever he wants. He may not like vegetables, one of the 4 choices, therefore when he chooses the fruit to eat instead of the vegetables. . . it is whatever experience in life that made him like fruit over vegetables that has determined his choice, not his present self. In reality then he has no choice but to choose the food he likes or needs becasue of somthing pre-determined.

Therefore there is no free will because he never controlled what prompts his decision.

Originally posted by inforeal
The OP is half right, imo, free will is a delusion, but not having anything to do with choices.

There is in reality no free will because the choices we make are not based on our conscious decision or choice, but something ultimately that we had nothing to do with: that is what drives us to make the choice in the first place!

For example: If you put before a child 4 portions of food and ask him to choose what he wants to eat, his choice is pre-determined by something that has nothing to do with free will, eventhough on the surface it seems he can choose whtever he wants. He may not like vegetables, one of the 4 choices, therefore when he chooses the fruit to eat instead of the vegetables. . . it is whatever experience in life that made him like fruit over vegetables that has determined his choice, not his present self. In reality then he has no choice but to choose the food he likes or needs becasue of somthing pre-determined.

Therefore there is no free will because he never controlled what prompts his decision.

edit on 9-7-2011 by inforeal because: (no reason given)

IMHO your post is half right.

If 4 optioned portions is asked of a child. A child that is hungry will take any. But a child that knows the difference between taste will asks for what it likes, which in essence, what you ask for you get. Simple.

Peace, NRE.

Free will is based on your past experiences and your reasoning in the current moment.

It seems like an illusion, like you have only a few options BECAUSE you and your mind think in a particular way. Your mind is limited to its reasoning and the choices it sees in that particular moment. Change your thought patterns and youll find other choices you haven't seen before. This is called learning from mistakes.

The way you think does not change unless you put a lot of programming into it to change it.

Thus, when God knows what choice you're going to make, He doesn't know it because He set it for you, He knows it because he knows YOU, your personality, and what reactions you will give.

And unless you alter your entire state of mind, the way you see your experiences and what not, your way of making choices does not change.

Free will, is recognizing all of this, and still being able to change IMO.

Good luck with all this thinking youre doing

Oh and I also think free will is a luxury attributed only to those who actually think before they act, not think after they act.

If you've lived your life acting first, thinking later, and were surrounded by people who are like this, like mindless animals, you would obviously question the whole concept of free will. But do not be fooled into thinking this is what its like for people who are aware of who they are, where they come from and why they exist.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Taking any food makes the “choice” in the equation irrelevant; therefore it can’t really be applied to the issue.

Though

Your modified equation, on another level confirms my conclusion. . . when you modify the choice with this: Do you want to eat or not?

Obviously a hungry child's choice then would be axiomatic . . .and again pre-destined
becasue his hunger makes the choice not him.

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by NoRegretsEver

 

Obviously a hungry child's choice then would be axiomatic . . .and again pre-destined
becasue his hunger makes the choice not him.

And ofcourse theres the fact that the child only listens to his whims, whereas an adult can make a choice even if hes hungry. And that my friends is thinking before you act=free will.

Free will does not exist.
It is a delusion... Ill prove it.

Do this: Think of a new color, not from RGB or CMYK, a completely NEW color. Cant do it because you can not truly choose. You can only do what you are told or taught. If someone showed you a new color you would forever know it. But the point is everything that is, and everything that you know, is not new.