There Will Be No Galactic Alignment in 2012

reply to post by bauldrick

No one knows about the center of the universe.

The solar system takes 250 million years to circle center of the Milky Way.

What evidence do you have that the Maya were aware of the precessional cycle?

Yeah, in recent times the Sun appears to be aligned with the center of the galaxy from Earth's point of view. That doesn't mean the Sun is aligned at the Galactic equator. That's what I think the Mayans saw as significant. Nowadays in Mexico, on the 21st December the Milky Way rises parallel to the horizon, with the Sun in this 'dark rift'. But, back when the Mayans were around the Sun wasn't yet in that position in December. So I think they worked out the Sun's future precession to when it would rise in the center of the Milky Way ( 21/12/12 ) and maybe saw something significant in that. Who really can say but the Mayans ??

reply to post by bauldrick

you all say there is no allignment but then say it happens every december which is it ?

There are no direct alignments between the Sun and where we currently believe the center of the Galaxy is. (This point gets refined every once and a while as radio, X-Ray and other types of observation are taken into account.) It so happens that the ecliptic... the imaginary plane that defines the Earth's orbit and thus the apparent motion of the Sun, crosses the somewhat arbitrary imaginary line that has been defined to be the "Galactic Plane," or galactic equator in a co-ordinate system used to define objects' positions in space. The Sun appears to cross this imaginary line in the sky twice each year, co-incidentally near the solstices.

i myself, think the Sun-Dark Rift alignment is the weakest of all the arguements for a modern version of just what 2012 is all about.

this window for a Sun & center-of-galaxy alignment is more factually an 'apparent alignment' (which has been going on since 1992 according to Astronomers and will 'align' like such until 2016... when the Sun-Rise will no longer be inside the Dark Rift area of the MilkyWay Center (Sag. 'A') for another serious number of years.


by 'apparent' alignment i mean that our Sun & Earth are some 2 LY (light years) above the imaginary Equator Plane of the Galaxy... so there ain't no magical/mystical belt or plane of Energy that will smack us in the face on the 21 Dec 2012 date...-> if there was an Energy on that date/ at that place--- it would shoot on by our solar system about as far as our nearest neighbor Star group Alpha Centuri - (if even it was in position to be in the Galaxy's equatorial plane.)


next off to this semi intelligent member, the Maya calendar predictions were specifically meant for the Maya socirty & culture---not for the masses of Africa/Europe/Asia
but somehow the predicted gourds and corn predictions became involved with elevated vibrations and resonances of Europeans/Americans/Russians of the 21st century. & possibly our human genome/DNA


the Maya calendar is specifically something over 5 million 'Days' long-- equating to some 5,120 years and not not cosmic alignment....
any alignment is secondary...


it has been speculated that the 5,120 great year of the Maya is in fact a 1/5th part of the total precession compromising ~26,000 years Earth time. Which makes this great year segment untypical as far as mathematics go... because 5 X 5,120 years equals 25,600 years not 26,000 as prescribed by many as being the precise term of the precessional wobble.... (do the 72º thing... with the 12 signs, gets 3º of precession per sign...etc= it does not compute to me)


since this Maya calendar is the Fifth such...and it was created/finalized around 500AD... just where and with whom did the Maya get the notion that this 5th great wheel/year was the final of the 26,000 precession cycle?
did the Olemecks chronicle the previous epochs? and pass the info & dates to the pervailing city-state of the Maya way before 500AD ?


Agreed --- There will be NO special Alignment in 2012, galactic or otherwise... its a continuation of cycles as far as we can extrapolate on either side of 'Now'

is an abstract notion this 2012 end of calendar/end of precession...and all begins another cycle.

you all seem to deny that just maybe these ancient people new something that we don't
well surely the pressesion of the earth through the solar system would bear quite some relavence when working out a yearly calendar as it traces it's way through the solar system
are you aware of the maths required to work such a calendar out to such preciseness
you would have to be aware of the wobble of the earth 26000 yr cycle to work out precise astronimcal markers to align your monuments
taking into account that the earth is moving through space in seven directions at once roughly 1.93 millions per hour just how the hell did these people work that out
because you need to know your location in space to work out the cycles of earth and its path around the solar sytem to be able to do such a precise calendar and the position of your monuments so that they align over such a long time scale
yet yearly these monuments align to the stars and equinoxes

science is not the answer to everything there is more to life than meets the eye than what is currently being explained by science and for modern man to dismiss there knowledge off hand is folly

Why did the Maya name the center of the galaxy Hunab ku and know it's location

this is pointless you only accept modern religion (science) are to closed in to yourselfs to just accept that there are some mysteries that are unexplained and that they knew more than us in some aspects it seems you have done no research on ancient culture and there knowledge yet just dismiss off hand because they where supposed to be tribal savages through out most ancient cultures in history there are artifacts and knowledge that cannot be explained away and to the detriment of modern man and unwillingness to accept that, wow we've got a big telescope so we know everything and nobody else could possibly know, is the attitude here

yet clearly they did have knowledge as every scholar states when the calendar is mentioned

my appologies if I remembered the time scale of our solar system travelling through the milky way my mistake 144 has stuck in there for some reason and will take another look

read up on sacred geometry a very ancient knowledge that has some remarkable findings and advanced maths involved enjoy

reply to post by bauldrick


I've been trying to find this connection between Hunab Ku and the center of the galaxy. So far I have found nothing. In fact Hunab Ku does not appear in any Mayan writing until the late Colonial Period. From the way he is written about it was clearly an attempt by the Christians to move the Mayans away from a polytheistic society, as he is described as the "supreme god." In fact his name translates to "Only God." I believe what you are referring to is Xibalba. The K'iche people have associated Xibalba with local caves, as well as the Great Rift. While the Great Rift is not the center of the galaxy, it is visible from Earth and it does pass through Sagittarius and obscure the Galactic Center.

There will be a galactic alignment in 2012, BUT ain't nothing gonna happen.....it'll be just like any other day.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


well isn't history written by the church and if you are going to fetch some of the biggest decievers of them all into it for your argument well I'm afraid I'll going to dismiss that straight off hand the world is flat and if you disagree you'll burn at the stake, hardly a reliable or believeable account of history is it, now they where closed minded simpletons if ever there was, that distorted any and all truth to there ends. recent thread on here old book that describes the working of the solar system 1442 or something like, also the maps of the world with longitudinal and latitudal lines while the church was denying there existence and brutally killing all that disagreed hardly a reliable source to goto

reply to post by Phage


Got to say ............."Love you phage" x

reply to post by 13star

The Great Rift (what the Maya referred to as the Dark Rift) is the band of gas and dust we see when we look along the plane of the Galaxy. It's dark because it obscures the stars beyond it. It is very irregular, being sinous and varying in thickness. That's part of the problem, it leaves a lot of wiggle room.

The Sun has an apparent diameter of about 1/2º, the Rift in the vicinity of Sagittarius about 5º. The Sun actually entered the rift (on the solstice) about 200 years ago and it will be in it for a long time. Will the Sun be in the "center" of the Rift in 2012? Defining the center is pretty arbitrary but between 1900 and 2011 precession has caused the position of the Sun to precess about 1 arcminute, about 0.02º. Where ever the center is, the sun will be there for quite a number of years.

I have seen no evidence that the Maya were aware of precession. I have seen no evidence that they were aware that the Sun would be where it is now in relation to the Milky Way. There is nothing there. What I see is people reverse engineering the Mayan calendar, badly. Taking the date of the "last" solstice, looking at modern skies, fudging the numbers, and saying "Aha! The Maya knew about it!"

reply to post by bauldrick


The Church is not my source. My source are the surviving records written by the Mayans. The name Hunab Ku only appears twice in everything we have found. Both of these instances are during the late Colonial Period and due to the obvious Christian influence on his description, by the Mayans, it is believed by many archaeologists that he was only added as a deity after the Franciscan monks arrived. There are no records that relate him to the center of the galaxy and there are no records that connect him with the Classic Period. So, where did you hear that Hunab Ku was associated with the center of the galaxy?

I think Neil Degrasse Tyson sums it all up, best. He covers the alignments, nibiru, and everything..... Science says it wont happen.... Science tends to be a pretty good tool to use so far.... So....



For the record, the center of the galaxy, the earth and the sun will come into perfect alignment..... But what is left out, is that it happens EVERY year on December 21st.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


The Maya are alive and there culture still thrive's to today, go to the source they know there culture and history, and do not need some outsider to come and tell them there history and culture

reply to post by bauldrick

why did you choose to ignore so many of the questions?

Because most if not all are entirely irrelevant to this thread and accuse the OP, or doubters of 2012, of doing things they didn't do. But here, since you apparently need everything explained to you carefully I'll look at the questions one at a time.

1 Why are all ancient cultures liars ?

This is what is known as a loaded question. It's like asking a politician "Why do you support the legalization of murder?" when they've never said anything of the sort. I didn't see the OP claim the ancients were lying about anything.

2 Who was alive to observe these events you or them ?

Any amateur astronomer can watch the stars and as it so happens we do "align" with the galactic center every year, but you'd have to be alive for 26,000 years to watch precession takes place. So anyone can view the "alignment" with galactic center and no one can view the entirety of precession. Also observing something and understanding it are two vastly different things and while observation can eventually lead to understanding that is not always the case. I've never directly observed a volcanic eruption yet I understand volcanoes far better than an ancient society that thought eruptions were caused by angry gods that could be placated with a few extra virgin sacrifices.

3 Which society is more trustworthy ?

A nonsensical question as the majority of society has little or no say in scientific discovery. Also doesn't make sense to judge an entire society as trustworthy or untrustworthy.

4 Which society made the observations first ?

Doesn't matter. The Greeks saw lightning way before we did, does this mean they were right that it was caused by Zeus? Columbus was long believed the first to set foot in and observe the New World, does that mean he was right to think he'd made it all the way to India?

5 How many times has modern science been wrong ?

Fewer times than non-modern science. Or would you like your family doctor to do a little blood-letting the next time you visit him?

6 How many times have things had to be revised ?

When new facts are found science refines and revises its views to come to a conclusion that better fits the facts. So things will be revised until we have the whole picture and every time new info is found it will shift the paradigm a bit and make the picture more clear.

7 What do long dead men have to gain from lying ?

This is why I didn't even want to bother with these questions. NO ONE IS SUGGESTING THEY WERE LYING. Were the ancients lying when they claimed lightning came from Zeus? OR WERE THEY JUST MISTAKEN? There were some things the ancients knew, other things they were ignorant of, when you're ignorant of it and you come up with something magical to explain it that isn't lying, it's just being wrong.

8 What do the governments have to gain from hiding the truth ?

A broad sweeping question with a total of less than nothing to do with this thread

9 Why are near earth objects that could potentially hit the earth now top secret ?

Again absolute nonsense with no relevance to the thread but I'll bite on this one... hmm, could it be to AVOID A PANIC? Or perhaps because some of what might hit Earth is debris that the space program put up there? There's two simple reasons in about 1 second worth of thought.

11 Why all the D.U.M.B bases being built ?

Why all the questions that have nothing to do with this thread?

12 Why have they built the seed fault ?

You do know there are numerous plausible ways that life could be wiped out on Earth right? Having a storage place of seeds or other biologically valuable materials makes sense from a disaster preparedness stand-point. Or would you like the government to not have a plan in the event of a SHTF scenario?

13 Has NASA ever been found to got anything wrong or misled the public ?

They're only human, I'm sure they get things wrong from time to time. Dunno what that has to do with the thread though since NASA wasn't the OPs source. This question should read "Has Stellarium ever gotten anything wrong?"

Number fourteen I already addressed in my post. Now I'd prefer if this was the last time I have to address your "questions" here since they're almost entirely off topic. If you want to continue this discussion send me a U2U

reply to post by bauldrick


However, history is written by the victors. Mayan beliefs changed drastically following the Spanish conquest and this was reflected in all the writing that followed. Things began to take on a more Christian aspect to it. These are the beliefs that would have been passed on to future generations. Now, I ask again, can you provide me with any source that connects Hunab Ku with the galactic center? You can keep claiming it all you want, but I would like to determine on my own whether or not it is a legitimate source.

As i understand it, we will align with the whole milky way, that is, not from the top, but from the side. If you imagine the whole galaxy as a disc, and look at it from the top (like you do with those pics), you are missing the big picture. Instead look at the galaxy from the side, it will looke like a line, with most stars close to the central band, but some stars slightly down below or above. This is how all stars move, up and down through this "Center line" as to speak, over thousands of years.. We have for several thousand years been "below" this line, and will now "pass through it" during a 3 year perid, being subject to the full gravitational pull from thousands of stars, all pulling from the same direction instead of from slightly different directions.. Anyway this is how i understood it from doing extensive research on these theories. ( a lot of misconceptions out there...)

I love these straw-man hit and run posts. A little clarification might have helped, but I think it would have debunked the effort.

1. The thing people are referring to that is recorded in the Maya calender is about con-science, and not science. Apples and oranges.

2. The knuckleheads that were known as the builders of the pyramids also have a calender built into the ceiling of a building that shows the exact same "date" or moment in galactic movement, that the Maya recorded in the calender given to them - they didn't really understand it either.

3. Saying "what's the big deal" suggests the sun alignment is the whole story and that's it. It is not. The point that is being made, which CANNOT BE ADDRESSED SCIENCE, is the solar system, anchored by our sun, will be returning to the starting point in it's journey around the galaxy. You cannot possibly know what our reality looks like outside, by guessing from the inside. Our position relative to what we see, is not the whole story.

It isn't that the alignment will occur, the straw-man, but that this alignment will return our system to the beginning point, and as it does, the consciousness process of those here will change. The journey through the nine levels of consciousness ends as the solar system returns to its beginning.

The problem with this kind of OP post is that the poster wants to make spiritual things into machined measured science things. They are not the same thing, and while one might, on occasion speak to the other, even Newton felt the science world was not the way to go.

I would be helpful if folks actually took the time to understand what is being said about the times we live in, so they may both speak about it with others and enjoy the process that is happening. Many of us are here to watch it unfold from the inside out, especially interesting to me is the myriad of earther belief systems that are failing - including science as god.

It would be helpful if folks would stop reading a headline of a thread, then pick a straw-man and put out the "HA!, see I told you so" stuf,f as it is so childish.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by bauldrick

 

I know who I trust why is it in this modern age we consider sciencetists and astrominers know everything well they clearly don't in light of recent discoveries so I'll choose to believe the Maya thanks,

First off no one is dismissing everything the Mayans knew to be true. Second of all I've seen no evidence that the ancient Maya actually had a prophecy related to 2012, everything I've heard about 2012 comes mostly from folks attempting to make a buck off the gullible with pseudoscience, and those that bought into their ideas of course.

This is very critical in making informed choices about what to believe.

There is no evidence relating to a prophecy that is directly linked to 2012.

None. nothing, zip.

Fellow humans. Do not be sheep.

reply to post by NeoVain

Your research doesn't seem to hold up to what astrophysicists say.

In addition, the solar system moves perpendicular to the galactic plane in a harmonic fashion, with a period of 52 to 74 million years and an amplitude of ~49 to 93 pc out of the galactic plane. (The uncertainties in the estimates of the period and amplitude of the motion are caused by the uncertainty in the amount of dark matter in the galactic disk.) The Sun and planets passed through the galactic plane about 2-3 million years ago, moving "northward."

www.astro.ncu.edu.tw...

reply to post by guessing


Yep and the sad thing is people still want to make appeals to the wisdom of the ancients as if they knew everything there was to know and were so much better than us. Even if that weren't already fallacious reasoning I've yet to come across any actual Mayan Doomsday Prophecy. Just a lot of pseudoscience and a whole flock full of sheep ready to be fleeced by pseudoscientific con-men.