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Master Mason Handbook (.PDF) Website and Question

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posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerLou
reply to post by Mason mike
 


Ok , wonderful! Thanks for that info Mike.
I just knew they were going to his being honored this 33rd... Thanks for the clarification. Appreciate you taking time for posting here. Much appreciated.

To add question: Also are you saying that you can neither confirm nor deny that these are the secret handshakes, that this website is accurate? www.ephesians5-11.org...
edit on 21-7-2011 by SeekerLou because: (no reason given)


as has been said, unless you plan on sneaking into a lodge, those trivial secrets are just that. Most of the "secrets" that really mean something are only secret because you have not asked about them yet. Ask and it shall be opened unto you. Oh, and when you arrive at the door of the lodge, be sure to knock three times.




posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Came across this site. It is aimed at the ''Christian'' Masons . It has some thought provoking questions imo. I would like to know what you (the Christian Masons) think regarding this ex 32nd degree mason's post. ..


Ten important Questions for the Christian Mason

By William Schnoebelen (former 32nd Degree Mason)
1.If Masonry is not a religion, why does it have all the trappings
of a religion?
Though Masons are told it is not a religion, that claim does not bear close scrutiny. By
any dictionary definition, Freemasonry has all the unique characteristics of a religion. It
demands a belief in a Supreme Being as a requirement for membership. It also has
chaplain, rituals of initiations, prayers and funeral services and teaches a plan of
salvation. It also has an organized body of philosophical and ethical teachings. Look in
any dictionary. These are the criteria for the definition of a religion. Thus, Masonry is
needed a religion.
2.If it is a religion, which one is it?
First in concern, it is not the Christian religion. Masonic authorities openly deny it is
Christianity 1, and this is further evidenced by the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is
accorded no special worship in the Lodge. He is presented as just one of many great
sages and no Mason is allowed to present Jesus to fellow lodge members as Almighty
God in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:15, John 1:14) or to witness Jesus to unsaved fellow
Masons. Beyond that, masonry is alternately depicted2 as kind of universalistic religion
“upon which all men can agree.” This categorically means it cannot be Christian, for
Jesus taught that no one could be saved except through Him (John 14:6). The other
face of Masonry, seen in the writings of its greatest teachers (Pike, Mackey, Hall, etc.) is
that it is a modern revival of “ancient mystery religions” (the worship of Baal – see
Judges 2:13, 1 Kings 18:21) and that its core philosophy is occult Kabbalism3.
Stripped of all the verbiage, this means that the philosophical core and pedigree of
modern Freemasonry is basically akin to that of witchcraft. (Both are called “the Craft”).
3.Can a professed Christian be a part of non-Christian religion?
Hopefully, this answer is self-evident. Jesus Himself warned that no one can serve two
masters (Matt. 6:24). Yet the Christian mason is attempting to serve his true master,
Jesus: and also the “Worshipful master” of the Lodge (Matt. 23:10). The Bible’s
message is clear. God does not want his people trying to worship two different gods at
the same time (Exodus 20:3, 1 King 18:22). You cannot mingle Masonry and
Christianity, anymore than you could be a Christian Muslim or a Christian Hindu.
1 Albert

See link for rest of questions and DL pdf here:
www.withoneaccord.org...



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by SeekerLou
 


before I go knocking three times... I would like to know more about this. Thanks for the replies everyone.



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by SeekerLou
 


Most of those accounts are either from fictitious ex-Masons, or they are just one person's misunderstandings.

I don't identify myself as a Christian, never have, and I don't believe most "Christians" in the US should wear that label either. Many so-called Christians have no problem accepting the salvation of many other faiths, and that goes against Jesus' very words. He said no one gets to the father but through him, and that dooms everyone else to hell. I don't believe he is the "only" way to heaven, but I do believe he was a messenger (possibly even son) from God, and his teachings carry much merit.

Anyhow, Masonry is certainly not a religion, it certainly does not offer salvation, and it certainly does not require putting anybody before your own God. In fact, Masonry requires one to put their family, their worship, and their career obligations all ahead of Masonry. One cannot be a good Mason if their priorities are out of whack.

Masonry is just a way to keep one's actions in life confined to moderation, and honor the basic morals that are common throughout all religions.
edit on 21-7-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by SeekerLou
 


That website and the other could not be more wrong. As I mentioned in my post in the previous page, those who join do not even know their own religion.

You are fully referencing your "savior"
Jesus of Nazarath, when the supreme being is invoked in the lodge.

Since you are a christian, you believe in the blessed, holy (or whatever you Christians call them) trinity. Made up of the father , son, and holy ghost (spirit).

Since a christian god is made up of this trinity, you are worshipping your Jesus when the supreme being is invoked.

Masonry is not a religion, just because of the fact that you bring your own religion (whatever it may be) into the fraternity. When the grand architect of the universe or the supreme being is invoked, it is invoking the god in your religion.
edit on 21-7-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerLou
Came across this site. It is aimed at the ''Christian'' Masons . It has some thought provoking questions imo. I would like to know what you (the Christian Masons) think regarding this ex 32nd degree mason's post.


Before we begin, I'd like to point out that the Bill Schnoebelen arouses some questions of his own.


1.If Masonry is not a religion, why does it have all the trappings
of a religion?
Though Masons are told it is not a religion, that claim does not bear close scrutiny. By
any dictionary definition, Freemasonry has all the unique characteristics of a religion. It
demands a belief in a Supreme Being as a requirement for membership. It also has
chaplain, rituals of initiations, prayers and funeral services and teaches a plan of
salvation
. It also has an organized body of philosophical and ethical teachings. Look in
any dictionary. These are the criteria for the definition of a religion. Thus, Masonry is
needed a religion.


The bold is patently false. Even without it, Schnoebelen's convenient definition excludes philosophies that are obviously religions (i.e. Buddhism) while including those that are equally obviously not (i.e. Theophilanthropism or Deism).


2.If it is a religion, which one is it?
First in concern, it is not the Christian religion. Masonic authorities openly deny it is
Christianity 1, and this is further evidenced by the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is
accorded no special worship in the Lodge. He is presented as just one of many great
sages and no Mason is allowed to present Jesus to fellow lodge members as Almighty
God in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:15, John 1:14) or to witness Jesus to unsaved fellow
Masons.


This is false. Masonry simply asks that its members refrain from religious contention inside the lodge. There is no such proscription beyond that.


Beyond that, masonry is alternately depicted2 as kind of universalistic religion
“upon which all men can agree.” This categorically means it cannot be Christian, for
Jesus taught that no one could be saved except through Him (John 14:6).


If this were true, it's curious that Freemasonry restricts its membership rather than opening it wider.


The other
face of Masonry, seen in the writings of its greatest teachers (Pike, Mackey, Hall, etc.) is
that it is a modern revival of “ancient mystery religions” (the worship of Baal – see
Judges 2:13, 1 Kings 18:21) and that its core philosophy is occult Kabbalism3.


Other brethren on this site have a far greater grasp of Hall and Pike. I will leave that to them.


Stripped of all the verbiage, this means that the philosophical core and pedigree of
modern Freemasonry is basically akin to that of witchcraft.


I know of no self-defining body of witchcraft that considers itself a blend of religions. This exists only in Schnoebelen's self-serving fantasy.


(Both are called “the Craft”).


So is operative stonework. So is my profession. So are a number of things it's also not relevant to bring into the discussion.



3.Can a professed Christian be a part of non-Christian religion?
Hopefully, this answer is self-evident. Jesus Himself warned that no one can serve two
masters (Matt. 6:24).


This, far beyond any other, is the most odious of Schnoebelen's lies: the perversion of Scripture to meet his ends. Here, he takes a quote of Jesus referencing a very specific topic ("Ye cannot serve God and mammon" is its end) and lops off the end of it so that only the quote regarding "masters" remains, thus making the verse appear to serve his ends.


Yet the Christian mason is attempting to serve his true master,
Jesus: and also the “Worshipful master” of the Lodge (Matt. 23:10).


I wonder in what way Schnoebelen believes the Master of a lodge is "served". Then again, I wonder if he believes that, or anything else he proclaims so loudly (and lucratively).



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerLou
By William Schnoebelen (former 32nd Degree Mason)


I like all the other 'ex' things that he was (Vampire, Satanist, Catholic, Mormon, Wiccan, etc). Many at the same time.



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerLou
Came across this site. It is aimed at the ''Christian'' Masons . It has some thought provoking questions imo. I would like to know what you (the Christian Masons) think regarding this ex 32nd degree mason's post.


Bill Schnoebelen has his own thread here that sets his bona fides straight.

This graphic demonstrates all the things he's claimed to be at their various times. I'll let you decide whether his word is worth anything


HTH
Fitz



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by SeekerLou
 


Traditionalist Christians tend to have no problem with Freemasonry. The modern, conservative, fundamentalist Christians, on the other hand, probably have little in common with Freemasonry's ideals, and it's therefore probably best they don't become Masons.



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Traditionalist Christians...


You mean the ones who will be sunbathing at the Lake of Fire with the rest of us, right?



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

You mean the ones who will be sunbathing at the Lake of Fire with the rest of us, right?


That's the ones!



posted on Jul, 21 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Traditionalist Christians...


You mean the ones who will be sunbathing at the Lake of Fire with the rest of us, right?


I've already been there. Danced that dance a couple of times, but they keep sending me back.

I'm not Catholic, but I'm thinking I have a long, long purgatory ahead of me. Lots and lots of atonement due. I have Job 16:9 on a broken stone tablet tattooed across the top of my back. Got the Masons, and a good wife, and a couple of good boys now, so maybe I can get some of my atonement done here.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by SeekerLou
 


Nothing in that handbook is a secret. Mine is sitting on our coffe table right now. The rituals book is in code, and the stuff you read on line is not 100% correct. If you showed up at a meeting tryin' to give the grip, and pass you would be figured out right away. My lodge is full of cops, military, and steelmill workers, so it wouldn't be good for you. I'd like to know from the book how you got a grip? Its not in there. Why don't you ask your friend if you can join instead of wasting your time trying to figure it out? My son is 16, cuts the grass at our lodge, and will be joining in a few yrs. He is a heavy metal, drummer kid. His buddies have been over and seen books of mine out. They thought I was some cool occult guy until I took them to breakfest at the lodge.

Let me put it this way:
Can you say how love feels because you have had a playboy mag? Can you discuss combat, if you have seen a war movie?

Don't try and figure it out buddy. Ask a mason in your area, and do it. I have 16yrs in the Navy. I'll be in uniform at a gas station and have someone come up to me and talk about the wars because there kid just finished bootcamp and they know all about the Navy. Its not the same.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 02:52 AM
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reply to post by SeekerLou
 


The guy hasn't a clue about masonry. Maybe he can tell us about law, or rocket science.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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Following on the original posting...

A link to the wonderful ephesians5-11 site as a reference. Ahh, ephesians5-11...that shining beacon of anti-Masonic intolerance and hatred. Your inclusion of that site as a resource unfortunately undermines your thesis from the start. I've "discussed" with several regular posters on that site about several topics about Freemasonry, and it proved to be a completely one-sided and abusive experience. They have absolutely ZERO tolerance for any discussion that in any way sheds a positive light on Freemasonry. They are quick to attack anyone who provides any real evidence against their arguments, particularly if the person claims to be a Freemason. Their behavior is frankly very abusive and insulting--that is, of course, unless you are one of the sheeple who gladly drink their Kool Aid.

OK, sorry for the digression, so back on track...

You may have learned some "secrets" of Freemasonry by reading a Master's Handbook or reading other Masonic sources, but it really only means that you are industrious. Does it make you a Mason? No. So what is the point? While you may think you have uncovered some treasure trove of secret information, unfortunately any such information is truly meaningless if you do not understand the reasons behind it. It's just taking information out of context. Imagine if I asserted that Christians are cannibals because they consume the body and blood of Christ during the rite of Communion. While there may be syntactical truth in such a description, because the meaning behind the symbolism is missing, the statement is truly false. Without proper context and instruction about the meaning behind the symbolism, knowledge of some of Freemasonry's "secrets" is pretty useless. Simple facts do not a Freemason make.

Besides, it's not all about specific knowledge, it's what you do with it. To paraphrase a Mason who appeared on one of those History/Travel/Learning Channel shows about Freemasonry, "You can go into pretty much any library, bookstore, or online and found most of the "secrets" of Freemasonry. But I as a Mason made a promise not to reveal them, so I will not." It's all about integrity--something most people simply can't or won't grasp.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Thanks everyone for your replies...

You have helped me to understand a few things and I appreciate it. Am going to talk to a Mason in person.

I think I will speak with my friend about this once again. And speaking of my friend, I must mention that he has integrity and is very honorable. If he can keep secrets like he does... I know I could trust him with my life.


Sorry if those people treated you so unfairly.





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