"Orrin Hatch: The 'Poor' Should Do More To Shrink Debt, Not The Rich"

As sad as the statement is, Senator Hatch is very much correct in his assessment, that the country can not continue to put the burden on those who are already paying the majority of the tax burden in the country. Too many government policies and handouts have made a mess of things and no one wants to accept the fact that there has to be cuts across the board, all around, rather than from one source or another. The senator also made a point that there has to be a reversal of people who are unemployed to get back to work, in order to bring the country back from the brink. People tend to think that the top 1% don’t pay their fair share, yet fail to take into account the endowments, grants, and other charities that they donate to that benefit a lot of people. Things like libraries, schools, hospitals, and other public works of that nature, get the majority of their funding from the private charitable contributions by the top 1%. Even Bill Gates, one of the richest persons in the country, gives quite a bit of money to charities and has an endowment foundation. How long do you think that would continue if you raise his taxes up where it starts to affect his personal wealth for the success that he has achieved that it gets cut? Think about it, he pays his taxes and has extra to spare to give to charities and not for profit foundations, and that which he donates, is tax deductible. Do you think he or others like him would be so willing to keep giving if taxes are continued to raise up on them? Global companies, do you think that if they have their taxes raised up too much more are going to want to stay in the country? What incentive would they have to be here, raise up their taxes too high and they can simply close the doors and operate out of another country out of the reach of the US federal government. And don’t you think that there would be a country or 2 currently that would shield them from any sort of reach of the US government out there, chances are there are.
Senator Hatch is correct, as there has to be a give way somewhere and cuts have to be across the board. The country can no longer afford all of the social programs. Costs go up, yet the federal government does not raise up the payments, cutting them down, where more and services are getting fewer and fewer as those who can provide such are no longer able to take on those who are on those programs, such as Medicare and Medicaid.
The realty is the country needs to go back to a speech made by a very good Democratic President who stated in his inaugural address: And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. 25 My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.

reply to post by inforeal


Not only did we ALSO have barriers in place to protect our workers until Reagan, it was (and still is) the "Government's job" to make sure these barriers are placed so that the most vulnerable members of our society are protected by predatory trade, lending and business practices.

"Promote the general welfare."

It's in the preamble to the constitution, FFS.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Senator Hatch is directly responsible for the trade imbalance between our nation and the rest of the world which makes it profitable for corporations to outsource labor to the lowest bidder.

China alone represents a 300 Billion dollar per year trade imbalance which works against US workers.

Do you honestly think working class people can influence trade policy at this level?

please stop with the half truths. 41% dont pay taxes? well, i guess they dont have a job, buy groceries, gas,clothes, any consumer goods or pretty much anything else which is guaranteed to be taxed federally, state, or local.

EVEREYONE in the US pays taxes, even aliens, legal or illegal. please stop lying and spreading misinformation; deny ignorance, right?

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
please stop with the half truths. 41% dont pay taxes? well, i guess they dont have a job, buy groceries, gas,clothes, any consumer goods or pretty much anything else which is guaranteed to be taxed federally, state, or local.

EVEREYONE in the US pays taxes, even aliens, legal or illegal. please stop lying and spreading misinformation; deny ignorance, right?

edit on 7-7-2011 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)

You are the one spreading misinformation. It is a Fact that 47% do not pay INCOME taxes. Also, the 47% are able to get a tax refund at the end of each year through various tax credits.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


That’s correct, and so true. I gave links to Reagan’s economic czar, Paul Craig Roberts about outsourcing. Another good source of info on this is the radio guy, Thom Hartmann www.thomhartmann.com...


The Brazilians, Indians and Chinese are taking advantage of the capitalists in this country who are selling us down the river.

There is a for sale sign on the American working class as the new serfs.

Even those on assistance pay out the arse in taxes. From groceries to gas to even the second hand clothing we wear Funny when I was paying 8-10 grand a year in tax for 30 yrs I was taxed for the meager help I receive,In fact the quatermill + is gonna be money in their pocket as I will never live long enough to receive what I have paid, now that our health care system has left me screwed and disabled do not think I am unaware of the taxes which are incorporated into everything I buy.Or that I am not still contributing to the money pump.
So yeah, poor rich guys. They may pay a few percent of their income in tax. When figured at the register we all are in solid double digit taxation. when figured realistically instead of off of a myopic income tax view. Mr Hatch can eat crow because the poor are already paying too many taxes to get out of poverty.
Ya''ll should read a phone or electric bill. I pay 2x in tax than product for my electricity and i am only a few hundred miles from bonneville and the columbia power grid. I get mighty frustrated with the lack of reason in these "look down" attitudes but then I have to remember the education system that helped form them is a joke and they are reinforced by a well coordinated propaganda machine.
seed

reply to post by inforeal


The funny thing is the only people who are responsible (the GOVERNMENT) for the mounting national debt is the ones trying to tell everyone else to be more responsible for the National Debt!!! The ones responsible are the ones funding the crap wars that are killing the country and the ones responsible for the debt are the ones who've got 300 plus military bases outside their country...it's funny how the government always shifts the blame to everybody else. Oh and let's not forget the millions that politicians make in the senate, congress, etc.

Originally posted by joyride0187

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
please stop with the half truths. 41% dont pay taxes? well, i guess they dont have a job, buy groceries, gas,clothes, any consumer goods or pretty much anything else which is guaranteed to be taxed federally, state, or local.

EVEREYONE in the US pays taxes, even aliens, legal or illegal. please stop lying and spreading misinformation; deny ignorance, right?

edit on 7-7-2011 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)

You are the one spreading misinformation. It is a Fact that 47% do not pay INCOME taxes. Also, the 47% are able to get a tax refund at the end of each year through various tax credits.

edit on 7-7-2011 by joyride0187 because: (no reason given)

No one was saying INCOME taxes...go back and read the posts. They say 41 or 49 percent pay no taxes. Thats why i called it a half truth, and you can see how easily such propaganda works.
Sorta like this:

Originally posted by camaro68ss
your so hard left some times, your taking it out of context. 41% of americans dont pay taxes at all. this is what the artical is talking about and knowing its coming from the washington post its going to be slanted to the left to faver the lefts propaganda.

I will take an apology from you now for calling me a liar and spreading disinformation. Thank you.

reply to post by joyride0187


lets look a little deeper into that 47 percent.

The elders, children and the unemployed make up a great deal of it.
Then there are people who simply do not earn enough, they either get a return or have paid enough and do not have to pay more.

But then again, if one buys stuff? is there no taxation on it?
Here we have taxation on just about anything, yes even my toilet cost me money

The poor and middle class pay their share. Whose children are sent to war so the rich can sell the weapons? Who reaps the profits from rebuilding countries those weapons destroyed?
The rich, the real rich, have people so convinced that someday you could be one of them. You will never be in their club. The will smash you before you get there. Sure they will let you come up to the level of millionaire, chump change to them.
When will they be fully audited and their true wealth be exposed, and taxed? All the monies they have hidden all over the world? Their govt will take the last loaf of bread from your hand for owing two dollars, but will overlook billions in secret Swiss bank accounts.
Steal a can of spam from a grocery and they'll send you to prison for ten years, steal billions from the old and you'll get a couple months.
It is so funny how they can get the little people to sit and point fingers at each other, all the while, they keep getting richer. How pathetic.

Originally posted by Tinman67
The poor and middle class pay their share. Whose children are sent to war so the rich can sell the weapons? Who reaps the profits from rebuilding countries those weapons destroyed?
The rich, the real rich, have people so convinced that someday you could be one of them. You will never be in their club. The will smash you before you get there. Sure they will let you come up to the level of millionaire, chump change to them.
When will they be fully audited and their true wealth be exposed, and taxed? All the monies they have hidden all over the world? Their govt will take the last loaf of bread from your hand for owing two dollars, but will overlook billions in secret Swiss bank accounts.
Steal a can of spam from a grocery and they'll send you to prison for ten years, steal billions from the old and you'll get a couple months.
It is so funny how they can get the little people to sit and point fingers at each other, all the while, they keep getting richer. How pathetic.

Needed to be posted twice.
Just because it was so true and very well-put!

reply to post by 0zzymand0s

In answer to your question, the answer is yes, the American worker can directly affect the economy. And there are 2 ways that this can happen. The first is that everyone has to spend for the more expensive item that are made in the USA. Ironic isn’t it, the very country that we have a trade imbalance with, more goods are made from and sold in the USA. The cheaper items are a signal to the companies that produce and sell goods in the USA, as that is what consumers will purchase. People are not willing to spend a few dollars more, often looking to get more for their dollar, and so that is part of the problem. The other way is that the people who hold stocks, they too can influence the different companies, by demanding and voting to keep manufacturing in the USA. But do they, no they want that dividend check to come back, and thus the companies, have to make decisions, keep the stock holders happy or provide jobs for American workers. And companies listen to their stockholders first, public second. Those 2 things, items that can be sold cheaply, and giving stockholders a larger dividend check is what will drive companies to move production overseas. Combined with most companies have to be global to compete and survive in the world, will have some part of their company in other countries, where they can make items more cheaper and then ship it back to the USA.
So there you have it, buy goods that are made in the USA, get the stockholders to demand such, and forego big returns, are just 2 ways that companies can be influenced, all without the benefit of government influence.

Seems the agenda is in play from the top to the lowest cheerleaders to single out the poor as "the problem"
It does not matter what realities are presented or facts divulged or that the real rape of this nation by the very rich have created the escalating poor class in America. As I said the agenda is in place and is in full swing.
This to me is tantamount to a coup de tat of America by Corporate interests who want a global fife of serf labor.That a single one of you pointing at the poor have nothing to say about real welfare (wall st, the pentagon, etc) just says your no more than the knee that gets a whack and jerks
seed

I guess it would be stupid to point out that you can't ever get blood from a stone, no matter how hard you squeeze, but to Camaro, and this DUMB A$$ senator, you can rejoice because it appears that debtor's prisons are coming back from the 1800's. Soon all "US" lowly peoples you call poor will be cleared from your pristine Utopian Facist New World Order's streets.

Wtf is up with ats being so full of these "defend the rich at all cost" scum posters? Are you guys paid by word or post? Seriously, how inhuman can you be to protect billionaires' wealth while shrieking for the vulnerable to be fleeced even further? Sick bastards.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
Wtf is up with ats being so full of these "defend the rich at all cost" scum posters? Are you guys paid by word or post? Seriously, how inhuman can you be to protect billionaires' wealth while shrieking for the vulnerable to be fleeced even further? Sick bastards.

AMEN!
Not much else to say.

What? You're complaining about working 6-7 days a week, 8-12 hours a shift just to keep your head above the water, and not drown?

WELL THAT"S NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!

Work more! Work faster! Work harder! The rich and elite have had nothing to do with this debt, so it's all up to the middle class *does that even exist anymore?* and people just above the poverty line to pay it off AND pay the elite!

reply to post by camaro68ss


It's only "the left" because the people who define themselves as being "on the right" are essentially nothing but sadists and misanthropes trying to disguise their perversity and selfishness as a political movement. By all other positions, it's simple ethics.

See, the thing is... the rich have more money than the poor. Think about it for a moment. it's an obvious fact, but few people ever consider the implications. if someone is going to shoulder a tax burden, then it only makes sense that it be the people who are most-able to shoulder it.

You may argue that there are more poor people and thus everyone should pay equally, but here's another thing that seems obvious but is rarely thought over; the price for a loaf of bread is constant regardless of your personal wealth. Prices are not based on percentages of a customer's personal wealth, they are fixed to the cost + profit value of the good or service in question. Thus, a poor person who goes grocery shopping ends up paying a higher percentage of their wealth than a rich person who buys hte exact same goods from the exact same store on the exact same day.

A flat tax ends up being more of a burden on the poor than the rich. And since the rich are far fewer in number (another obvious but poorly-considered fact) the result is actually far less revenue going into the treasuries; resulting in greatly diminished returns for the taxes paid.

Progressive taxation that is light or nonexistent on hte poor and heaviest on the richest makes complete sense when you consider these facts.

reply to post by Snoopy1978


They've been deluded into believing one of two things - or perhaps both.

1) "Someday i'll be one of the 1% of the population that owns 55% of the nation's wealth! When I finally get out of this double-wide and into my 16-acre estates, I don't want to pay ANY taxes!"
and
2) "if you tax the wealthy they'll just pass the costs on to the consumer; if you give them tax breaks, they'll pass the savings on to the consumer. Reagan was the second coming!"

Of course, both of these delusions are demonstrably false.